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TIGSource ForumsCommunityTownhallDeath From Above
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Kisguri
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« on: June 08, 2009, 11:01:46 AM »

Death From Above is Done!

Video Trailer:



Download page: http://www.gamesare.com/games/dfa/dfa.htm

Or rather I am tired of working on my two month project for the sixth month. But in any case it is completed enough for me to release it as comfortably. So if you enjoyed games inspired by titles like BMB Compuscience's Sopwith from the mystical age of the 80's or would just like to gun down enemy planes, drop bombs, and seize cities, I would encourage you to give Death From Above a try.

This is my first completed title I have submitted to Tigsource, so hopefully It won't be to painful Wink. The game features a four mission campaign out of a possible choice of eight battles. Typically we do clone work for clients looking for a cheap game developed for some back end part of the world, And consequentially I make next to no money on it, so I decided it was time do something I liked and been thinking about for some time, I hope you enjoy it. I look forward to your expert opinion and input!



About the Game

You homeland has been invaded by a aggressive neighboring Military dictatorship, Returning from a scheduled sea exercise your fleet group arrives too late to stem the attack. As one of the few remaining homeland guard pilots, you must drive the enemy out of our country and reclaim the land for your people!

Pilot your trusty Bi Plane into combat as you engage aerial targets in deadly dogfights, and provide ground support bombing against enemy artillery and tanks to help your ground forces! Make sure to land safely at the end of each sortie to refuel and rearm. From your base deploy armor units out to engage and reclaim your cities and bases.

Bring them DEATH FROM ABOVE!

Features

- 4 Level campaign out of 8 possible levels
- Dogfights and bombing runs.
- Aerial maneuvers like the S turn or forced stall
- Refuel at your base
- Deploy tanks to seize cities and other bases
- Eject when going down to continue the fight another day!
- Training mode and timed stunt course options
- It's Free yes I said I did the game for free (Gasp)

Thanks for reading!

-Kisguri
http://www.Gamesare.com

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Grif
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 01:22:31 PM »

Thoughts: So far on the tutorial I have died more times than I can count. Having to constantly restart from the beginning really sucks. Not being told which UI element is the throttle, which is fuel, etc, and having to scan for tiny labels kinda sucks too.

I love the weighty feel to the planes, they handle realistically. That said, I don't like that cutting throttle makes you instantly drop like a rock. This is especially easy to do when trying to land. I also don't like how the tutorial instantly cuts you away from what you were doing to a new position without any idea what's going on. That's resulted in more than one crash. There's a rather severe time delay between "Now we're going to land" and the actual landing tip box appearing, as well. Some indication that your throttle instantly kills inside the landing zone would also be good. I've also had some bugs with the landing zone in the ground forces tutorial.

It is apparently impossible to pull upward out of a sharp dive. This is really irritating.
And uh once again killed by going too slow immediate swan dive.

I like the graphical style, especially the silhouette look (though it's a bit hard to see the single pixel blue lines on buildings). I like the controls, barring a few minor mishaps. It's just--somehow, really friggin' challenging. I guess I was expecting something that controlled like Altitude, which I did not get. However, realism does not entail planes dropping out of the sky after throttling down.
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Kisguri
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 05:29:50 PM »

Thanks for the great input Grif, this is how I have addressed it thus far...

Flight School:

    I have implemented that when you get to the landing section of Basic Flight you can crash and start from the landing part as much as you want, I plan on doing the same for the Bombing run in Combat Training as well, I will also add a Pre-Flight section giving information on all your instrumentation. ran out of time to do it tonight.

Basic Flight:

    If you can Grif please strap on your goggles and Flight Jacket again, and try the new file as I edited how the plane stalls which seems to be the core issue for you during flight. it takes longer to stall out if you go under the required flight speed when you are level, but if you pitched up higher you will stall out quicker, hope this makes it feel better. Could you explain the Sharp Dive issue a bit more for me so I can properly address it. and you right I need to add more splashes of blue and red on the wing tips of the planes and tanks
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Grif
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2009, 11:53:16 AM »

Alright, the changes are most definitely appreciated. It's definitely not so easy to crash and burn, and I like the reworked tutorials.
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Kisguri
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 04:58:58 PM »

Retro Update

Download: http://www.Gamesare.com/games/dfa/dfa.htm

Based on several user comments, I went ahead and did some more work on the game and thus provide you, honorable home guard pilots, A new build to fly. Below is a list of things changed or added...

1. 360 Degree Shooting: now shooting is based on your angle and not your direction, don't know if I like it, but many folks asked for it

2. I removed random mid air explosions when out of armor mid flight, I guess the whole might have hit the fuel line is to much realism, so now you always have a chance to bail out, and I increased the odds of a successful bailout as well

3. In Flight school I added two new lessons, Instrumentation and Advanced Flight, Instrumentation basically reviews your cockpit indicators and functions, where as adv flight, reveals techniques like barrel rolls, s turns and forced stalls.

4. I have also built a tribute so to speak of the game DFA was inspired by "Sopwith" by selecting "Sopwith Mode" players will be able to read a bit about the original game, and then play a retro version of DFA complete with retro looking 3 color CGA graphics and simpler game play, how high a level can you reach.

Hopefully these features are a welcome addition to the Death From Above experience!

   

   

   

   
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muku
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2009, 11:17:31 PM »

Okay, I played this yesterday evening, and you get huge props for giving me a giant Sopwith flashback. This game seems really promising, and I hope you take the time to clean up some of the warts it has right now, because this could be something really fun. So, here's what I can remember off the top of my head:

  • BUGS!!! This really is the killer right now. It's so buggy I was close to just giving up. After failing some tutorial levels, it would suddenly drop me right into the first campaign mission. After restarting after dying, the music in the main menu sometimes cut out. Buildings would just appear right in the middle of the sky. Enemy planes would fly backwards. Choosing "Time Course" crashes the app. And so on. This is really killing all the polish you have put into it so far.
  • The bullets right now are just points flying across the screen. I know it's consistent with the original, but may I suggest making them a bit more fun? Make them faster, give them some random deviation, make them look more elongated; everything to make me feel like I'm really shooting a machine gun at those bandits.
  • Landing right now is a disaster. It feels very jarring when entering the landing zone suddenly kills all your velocity; even worse, more than once has the auto-pilot directed me straight into the building next to the landing strip. Even more weirdness occurs when entering the landing zone from the left instead of the right.
  • The S-turn maneuver doesn't feel smooth at all. I think the problem is that you move at full speed in one direction, and then you instantly flip to full speed in the other direction, when it should really slow down and re-accelerate.
  • Friendly and hostile aircraft are really hard to tell apart. I appreciate the silhouette style you have going, but that tiny blue/red dot just doesn't cut it.
  • Have you considered adding a minimap? Even Sopwith had it! Right now it's just really disorienting to try and find your way back after some flying. Failing that, at least an altimeter would be very much appreciated, because crashing into the ground just because you overestimated your altitude is just too frustrating.
  • I appreciate how you try to add some flavor via the cockpit, but the truth is it just takes up an awful lot of screen space. Personally I think I'd prefer a minimalistic HUD which just has bars for armor/ammo/bombs in one corner of the screen, so that I could see more of the world. Make it toggleable, perhaps?

Don't think I bring up all this criticism because I think the game is bad; on the contrary, I think it has a lot of promise, and I want to see it improved! Very good job so far!
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Kisguri
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2009, 04:57:54 AM »

If I may Muku, could i get you system and OS specs, no one has reported a building appearing in the middle of the sky or jumping into campaign, so it would help to know that info, Also can you tell me where in the game you where when a building materialized. on to you comments.


-I like the bullet Idea its a good point.

-Yes I guess people would try to land coming from the left, I had always intended for people to land coming from the right, and I probably didn't provide clear communication on that, so either make that clear, or I have to go about trying to add left landing. the landing mechanic was to make the player decide at what height and and how far down the runway to cut the engines, as the angle of autopilot decent is the same. Perhaps the mechanic needs to be revisited

-I left radar out intentionally, I think I might add a arrow point towards a available target after you kill something. would this help, or is the lack of Radar a killer for you?

-Funny about the hud, testing before showed my minimalistic approach was undesirable, so I hope the HUD inclusion will turn you off to much!

These are awesome comments, I appreciate the input immensely
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muku
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 05:22:24 AM »

If I may Muku, could i get you system and OS specs, no one has reported a building appearing in the middle of the sky or jumping into campaign, so it would help to know that info, Also can you tell me where in the game you where when a building materialized. on to you comments.

Ah yes of course, forgot about that. This was on a Vista 32-bit laptop with some crappy integrated Intel video chipset, and I think 2 GB of RAM.

The thing with the building was strange, and it only happened once; I was just fighting the plane in the Combat section of the tutorial, and at some point a black building silhouette started flickering in and out of existence right in the sky. I think this was also the same game when the enemy plane was flying backwards, so something must have been really messed up at that point. I'll see if I can get it to reproduce and provide screenshots, otherwise I guess it was only a fluke or something...


Quote
-Yes I guess people would try to land coming from the left, I had always intended for people to land coming from the right, and I probably didn't provide clear communication on that, so either make that clear, or I have to go about trying to add left landing. the landing mechanic was to make the player decide at what height and and how far down the runway to cut the engines, as the angle of autopilot decent is the same. Perhaps the mechanic needs to be revisited

I'd appreciate that a lot. Isn't it possible to let the player land themselves, without the autopilot? That would cure much of the strangeness going on. I think you can't really leave it as it is either way because even if you communicate to players that they should land from the right, nothing will stop them from trying to land from the left, and what happens then will just break immersion totally.


Quote
-I left radar out intentionally, I think I might add a arrow point towards a available target after you kill something. would this help, or is the lack of Radar a killer for you?

No, it isn't, and some directional arrows would probably be a good substitute. Something to help me find back home (a second arrow?) would be appreciated though.
I still think the altimeter would help a lot though, since it's often hard to judge your height when the ground isn't visible.

Quote
-Funny about the hud, testing before showed my minimalistic approach was undesirable, so I hope the HUD inclusion will turn you off to much!

It's a matter of taste probably; I can live with it as it is, though a key or an option to turn the cockpit on/off would probably be ideal.
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Kisguri
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2009, 06:26:25 AM »

Awesome, looks like i have some work for tonight, Hope you will come back and try the new version, thanks again for the input!
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J.G. Martins
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 06:43:13 AM »

Hey there! I'm a sucker for these kinds of games, so I gave it a whirl yesterday!

A few comments:
- It works under linux through Wine!, but is slower, as expected.
- The game lags a bit on relatively old laptop, which I find odd: 1.73ghz P4, NVidia Go 7300 128+128(shared)mb, 2gb, XP SP3
- When you double-ctrl to invert directions and you're at somewhat high speeds, the plane flickers a bit and the position jumps around a bit, which is sort of disorienting
- The altimeter idea is pretty great, as it is indeed veeeeeery hard to know how high you are. Either that, or add sort of in-game markers for altitude, like a horizontal line of clouds of different types, maybe a change of colour of the sky?
- I can confirm being booted to the first campaign mission when I die in the tutorial and try to refly (instead of quitting to menu)
- I do not dislike the current HUD, as it makes the game a bit more thematic, but it does take up a bit of valuable space, especially since it is right at the middle. No suggestions come up for this though!
- Sometimes on the campaign map, instead of landing on the carrier, I pass through it and go out of the screen for no apparent reason, without actually dying.



Now regarding gameplay: the game plays very "ponderously". The facts that the turn rate is really low and that the speeds aren't that high make the combat a lot more tactical, as you can think about what moves you can do, although double-ctrl will usually get you out of tight situations with no problem. It's working as a universal get-away trick right now, one that, say, Triplane Turmoil does not have, which means you have to shake'em off your tail. If the enemies learned to use double-ctrl, the game would be more challenging dogfight-wise.

There's also this weird thing where you can put a WWI plane one a vertical climb without stalling, which is highly unrealistic, and removes a challenge gameplay-wise that is interesting to have to deal with, in my opinion Smiley

Personally, I'd prefer if the planes moved faster and turned better, to make the action a bit more frantic. That and actual stalling would change the way the dogfights are played out, and that may not be to your liking. There's no good or bad here, just different takes on preferred gameplay! Smiley

It's also hard to aim the bombs for me since they actually seem to get "fired" forward instead of just dropping. They should, at least, simply drop alongside the plane and lose altitude (and maybe horizontal speed).

Finally, I haven't gotten past the first mission because of either small bugs, or the difficulty of simply flying/landing. I don't think I've ever been shot down, but crash way too often while trying to land, running into buildings (used to flying through flags and some buildings from Triplane Turmoil), performing a turn without enough altitude and the likes. Whether this is an issue for the gameplay you want is up to you Smiley One thing that's hard to deal with is the constant presence of 4 enemy planes in the air. They simply keep spawning, and make your task of keeping the skies clear a bit too hard to manage, since you really have no chance and can't focus on the tanks much. Maybe add a slight delay, or a build queue like for the tanks?


Now, all this said, I'll repeat what Muku mentioned: I point out all these things because the game looks so interesting, and I just want it to get better! I would also like to commend you very much for being able to put on such a nicely polished and aesthetic game. It all comes together really nicely! All the art is top-notch (although I don't like the commander so much. Maybe its the aggressive looking eyes, or the semi-cartoony look when the rest is sort of realistic?), the menus work well too, so basically I feel the production values are very good for an indie game Smiley

Cheers, and congratulations!
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Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" cried the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But iron, cold iron, is the master of them all."
--- Rudyard Kipling
Kisguri
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009, 05:16:28 PM »

Hopefully you guys can come back tomorrow and check out the new build I am working on. I have added more color to the enemy planes, Fixed the camera Glitch when S turning, When you s Turn in to enemy planes the break pursuit, I have added quick keys to hide the Hud and turn on and off the new Radar that locates the next closest target and points it out with a red Arrow.

Want to carefully exam your comments before I post the new build, but it should be tomorrow as I said. Thanks again for the input!
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J.G. Martins
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 07:54:38 PM »

Wow, that's productivity for you! I'll be looking forward to playing it, if I survive my day tomorrow. Exams... Tired
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Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" cried the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But iron, cold iron, is the master of them all."
--- Rudyard Kipling
Kisguri
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 05:32:04 PM »

Phew!

New Build:
http://www.gamesare.com/games/dfa/dfa.htm

Changes

Added more color to tails of plane
Changed Weapons Fire Graphics
Added a Exit Button in main menu (Duh)
S Turn only performed when not Boosting
Fixed S Turn Jerky Camera, (Mostly)
Added Radar (Turn off with N) Shows next closest Target
Can turn off & On the hud with the "C" key
Enemies Randomly break Pursuit when you perform a S turn
Fly though Aerodrome Flags with ease
When in a complete vertical climb unless you are boosting you will slow down into a stall
Fixed training to campaign bug


Still working on Altimeter!

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J.G. Martins
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2009, 03:55:17 PM »

Hey there!

Gave it a whirl just now! Everything seems a lot more polished and smooth! I actually managed to finish the first mission! Heheheh!

I would still prefer a higher turn rate, but this is still pretty cool. The enemy planes spawn rate is much more sensible now, although they seem to simply fly straight ahead and shoot. Rarely do they attempt to get on your tail. I feel that landing could be a fair bit faster once its out of your control. It makes it kind of boring, and actually seems like the plane suddenly jerked to a slower pace.

I also feel the first mission to be a tad too long. You might want it to be a little faster, say, just the first city plus the enemy base a little closer, and that's it. It should work as an introduction, not make you stay there ages and ages until your tanks finally reach the other place. Also, why don't your friendly planes also respawn?

It is much easier to spot the red tail on the enemies now, although when they perform manoeuvers it simply disappears.

Could you please make campaigns persistent though? I didn't have much time, so I quit after the first mission. And it didn't save *sniff*

Also, whenever I spawned in the second mission, the plane would simply explode. I couldn't take off at all!

Anyway, this was a great move ahead! The game feels much better now Smiley
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Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" cried the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But iron, cold iron, is the master of them all."
--- Rudyard Kipling
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