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andygeers
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« on: June 09, 2009, 03:15:56 AM »

Hi there,

I'm new on these boards, so forgive me if this is the wrong place to be posting this (I found the organisation a little confusing!)

My name's Andy and I live in London, working as a software developer for a post-production company who do VFX for movies. Over the past few years in my spare time I've been developing a Bible-teaching computer game in the style of point and click adventure games like Monkey Island (hopefully with a similar sense of humour too!)

I'm making pretty good progress on my first game, codenamed "Ebenezer", based on the events of the Old Testament where Saul becomes Israel's first proper king (the plan being that I could do David and Goliath as a sequel once I've ironed out some of the kinks in my formula and game engine!) The storyline and puzzles and all written, and I hope to have a first prototype of the game by the autumn.

I'm posting here to see if anybody would be interested in getting involved! I'm pretty keen to find a partner in crime to collaborate as a project lead, but I'm also looking for a concept artist and a 3D modeller with Blender experience. Details can be found on my website if you want to find out more: http://www.geero.net/bible-games.html
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partymetroid
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2009, 03:58:14 AM »

I'm glad to see one more practicing Christian on this board Smiley.  (I'm Catholic.)  My game isn't really going to transfer information about the Bible per se... but it will have some religious themes and religious Philosophies explored.

Best of luck to you!  I hope you find someone to help you, and I hope your project turns out how entertaining and exciting as you want it to be. Smiley

[edit]Oh, and don't forget to introduce yourself in the "Obligatory Introduce Yourself Thread". Smiley
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Cymon
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 08:20:26 AM »

Bible based games have a pretty bad history. I'm a practicing Christian too, but I'm not sure if this isn't a losing battle. Best of luck, tho.
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Bree
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2009, 08:40:31 AM »

I think most Bible games fall into the same trap as any edutainment title- they can tend to be more educational than game, or they have an awkward mix of the two. On top of that, some Bible games I've played come off very aggressive in showing you how theirs is the only way of living. That being said, I wish you the best of luck on your project!
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andygeers
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2009, 08:47:54 AM »

Bible based games have a pretty bad history. I'm a practicing Christian too, but I'm not sure if this isn't a losing battle. Best of luck, tho.

Lol, yes I've done plenty of research into the Christian games market and it's pretty woeful!  As Theo says, they often tend to focus on moralising and saying "be a nice person", or they take the approach of being something like a Bible Quiz or something to impart facts. The ones that don't end up being a game like every other just set in a Biblical time and place.

I think point & click adventures offer a nice way to avoid all these pitfalls. You can have a genuinely fun game with interesting characters and classic puzzles, whilst at the same time you can have a properly character-driven narrative that actually shows you something of God's nature and allows the player to ask questions about the meaning and significance of what's going on, without it being preachy or abusing those who don't share the same worldview.

Who knows if it will really work, but I'm pretty convinced it's worth a try!
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Juhkystar
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2009, 09:03:28 AM »

Yeah, good luck with this, but I'm afraid it's just like all the other games in the Christian market. I personally believe Christians should be making games that don't necessarily teach a moral lesson, but rather focus on cleaner entertainment. Who says Christians can't make an FPS? I've personally been working on a design document on and off for the past few years for a RPG and a FPS that would appeal to the Christian market while retaining everyone else's interest. What this means is that the games aren't overtly Christian, but rather ask the same questions everyone else asks in life and ends up answering them in a unique way.
However, I'm glad to see other Christians here as it's been pretty depressing not seeing many in the gaming business. Someday, I hope to make a difference in this area (Gaaahhh, I'm only 17), but it's nice to see you're striving to do something.
I might e-mail you later though... Wink
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Μarkham
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2009, 11:52:33 AM »

There have been some that were good - I remember playing this one PC game that takes place in a city, and you threw fruit at people to defeat them.  It was a top-down 2D game for DOS, I think, named Exodus?  I'm not too sure on the name.
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KennEH!
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2009, 12:37:25 PM »

Just make sure this is more came than education. I know that may be hard, but many lose fun when there is too much "teaching" going on.
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Pencerkoff
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2009, 01:57:07 PM »

Hello this is Pencerkoff

I know from experience most of the New Testament video games never take off and are rarely fun.  Finding a decent amount of action in the Old Testament on the other hand is easy.

I always wanted to make a game involving Elijah and Elisha as two main characters you could switch between in a game and summon bears to kill "youths". 

Anybody know of any games featuring Samson?  That game would great, not to mention killing hundreds of people at a go wouldn't be far-fetched like most video games are (I guess that's from the perspective that the Bible itself isn't far-fetched).

Something I've always struggled with is keeping all of the biblical history straight in my head, and I always wanted something like a movie or video game that didn't necessarily teach the morality (not that I'd be against that) but at least covered the chronology of everything.  Sort of like how Civilization let me rock all of my History classes.

I have no 3D skills... or many skills at all really, but I'm always up for contributing something to a Biblical Game Project.

-PENCERKOFF

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Pencerkoff
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2009, 02:08:41 PM »

Hello this is Pencerkoff

Avoid this link if you have a thing against profanity, but honestly these guys stumbled upon what would be some action-packed Bible games.  Found this after my last post because I was looking for pictures of the bears mauling the youths.

http://www.cracked.com/article_15699_9-most-badass-bible-verses.html

-PENCERKOFF
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andygeers
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2009, 10:31:43 PM »

Hmmm... Maybe I just have a marketing issue. Seems like the term "Bible-teaching computer game" throws up all sorts of wrong images that have nothing to do with what I'm actually making.
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andygeers
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009, 03:53:45 AM »

Well based upon the response I've received here, I reckon I might need to revisit using the language of "Bible-teaching computer games" since it obviously doesn't convey what I'm trying to do very accurately! I've put together a quick blog post on why I've been using the term and would value any feedback on a better nomenclature!
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2009, 04:05:59 AM »

i consider teaching the bible to children as truth to be child abuse, since it teaches them a lot of false and harmful things, especially in the way it's commonly taught and with the emphasizes commonly used (e.g. do specific things or you'll go to hell). note that this isn't intended to be offensive or trolling or something, just expressing my honest opinion about it.

that said there are a couple of fun bible games i've played, and plenty of great movies and games and such that take ideas or elements from the bible. so i think it's worth teaching as literature and history, just not as truth, so it'd all be in how the game works specifically. it can be done very well or very badly.
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andygeers
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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2009, 04:45:16 AM »

i consider teaching the bible to children as truth to be child abuse, since it teaches them a lot of false and harmful things, especially in the way it's commonly taught and with the emphasizes commonly used (e.g. do specific things or you'll go to hell)

Lol, I totally know where you're coming from on this one (even if I wouldn't put it quite so starkly myself) and the whole emphasis on "do these specific things" is something I'm keen to avoid. I'm more interested in what the particular Bible passage in question shows us about what God is like and what practical implications that has for day-to-day living - without presupposing the particular worldview of the player (e.g. I can say to you "1 Samuel 8 describes a God who is like X" without assuming that you either believe in God or believe that the Bible is true - that doesn't somehow magically change the contents of 1 Samuel 8!)

But I'm curious as to why you've immediately leapt to the conclusion that I'm targeting children? What made you think that?
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Aik
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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2009, 05:41:53 AM »

So, who is the target audience here?

Is it Christians? Those without strong religious beliefs? People strongly of other religions or strongly not religous?

The 'why' section on your website makes it sound like you're trying to convert people with your game. If that's the plan, I think your game is going to be terrible.

If it's just a game that is in a biblical setting without ulterior motives, that's cool and I'm interested in playing it. Call it 'a point and click adventure game set in biblical times' and you're out of range of my kneejerk reaction. Any teaching that happens will be a natural thing.

I have no interest in learning about the Bible - I know a lot about it already and reject it as a useful or interesting thing for a good variety of reasons. A 'Bible teaching game' couldn't interest me less.

So, yeah - what is your game actually about? I've read a couple of pages on your website explaining, but I still don't have a very clear idea - it sounds like you want to go both ways at once. Could you give an example of actual play from the game?
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Derek
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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2009, 05:53:37 AM »

I'm an atheist, so you may want to take this with a grain of salt (and hopefully not a pillar LOL), but I'd also be interested in playing a game that was a fairly "straight" interpretation of the Bible, i.e. where the Bible is taken more literally.  It's an interesting story and I feel like a lot of what makes it powerful is lost once Christians start pulling "random" passages out of it and re-wrapping them in their own personal moral values and experiences.  The latter is obviously a lot easier to pull off, both creatively and philosophically... but would also not really interest me in the slightest.

The comic artist Chester Brown has done very good historical adaptations of the Gospels of Mark and Matthew that are worth checking out.  As a non-believer I really enjoyed them, just as I enjoyed his Louis Riel book as a non-Canadian (hehe).  I'm also looking forward to R. Crumb's Book of Genesis, which seems to follow Genesis nearly verbatim and is coming out later this year: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/06/09/r-crumbs-book-of-gen-1.html

Anyway, it'd be difficult to pull off, but I'd welcome a game that was made with the intention of presenting the Bible in that kind of a fashion.

So, who is the target audience here?

Yeah, that's a good question.
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andygeers
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« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2009, 05:59:05 AM »

The 'why' section on your website makes it sound like you're trying to convert people with your game. If that's the plan, I think your game is going to be terrible.

If it's just a game that is in a biblical setting without ulterior motives, that's cool and I'm interested in playing it. Call it 'a point and click adventure game set in biblical times' and you're out of range of my kneejerk reaction. Any teaching that happens will be a natural thing.

Great questions! Thanks for getting me thinking on this :-)
The "why" section of my website explains my motives for *making* the game: yes, ultimately, I am making these games because I want to see people come to know God a bit better (whether they are already followers or not), and I believe that the way that will happen is through the Bible.

Does that correlate to the kind of experience you'll have when *playing* the game? Will it feel like you're being preached at every step of the way and having some alien world-view shoved down your throat that you just have no interest in when you're trying to play a game? By no means!

And so I couldn't agree with you more that when you actually come to play the game, "any teaching that happens will be a natural thing" - absolutely! That's exactly what I want the experience to be like. But not because I haven't put in countless hours thinking about and planning on how that "natural" teaching process is going to come about.

As for the game play: the plan is to make it exactly like classic Point & Click games like Monkey Island. You need to find a way to cross a stream; find a way to distract a security guard; collect some honey from a hoard of angry bees; move an army of soldiers across a valley;

But all in all, you've given me some great ideas for how to improve my website, so thanks a lot!
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Radix
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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2009, 06:08:00 AM »

Fuck yeah. I want to play as the bear.
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andygeers
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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2009, 06:56:24 AM »

Fuck yeah. I want to play as the bear.

Lol, I think I'll have to save that one for the sequel ;-)
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Bree
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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2009, 07:52:26 AM »

Holy eff, Rob Crumb's drawing the Bible? This oughta be good.
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