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[barta]

ok maybe this is the correct section to post this.
i made a visual novel, but my native language is italian, so i have some doubts about the translation i made. i'd like for everything to look fine for the update i'm working on.
have a look at these:

I worked as a clerk in a drapery in town, but the owner wasn't happy with me, he said I had too many women on my mind. How is it my fault, if I'm a nice bloke?
(would 'used to say' fit better?)

I was having a drink with some friends at the Triton, when I heard Duvivier telling jokes about the widow Clissonet. I started fighting fire with fire, and big words started flying around. We didn't punch each other, but just because we both tippled too much.
('making fun of' instead of 'telling jokes'?)

[Thaumaturge]

Huh. You know, I've just realised that while we have sub-forums for visual arts, audio, and game-design, we don't have one for writing. That is odd. o_0

As to your questions:

I'm not sure about "he said"--I think that it's okay as you've written it, but I'm not quite confident.

As to "telling jokes", unless the Widow Clissonet is present and the direct target of the jokes, I think that it's fine as it is. "Making fun of" works too, especially if the person doing it is mocking the widow in ways other than joke-telling. Depending on your context, either could be fine here, I believe.

Regarding the last phrase that you posted, starting with "but just because ...", I believe that "we both" has the wrong tense--as written it's present-tense, while the rest of the phrase (and paragraph) is in the past tense. I think that "we had both" would be more correct.

Finally, in that same phrase, I might suggest "only" in place of "just"--but that may be a matter of style.

[barta]

thank you. yes maybe there should be a sub-section about writing, and maybe also interface, as it is central stage for many indie projects.

[Thaumaturge]

Well, I asked about a writing sub-forum--you can find that thread at this link, I believe. In short, the answers given there indicate that there hasn't been enough writing-related activity to support a full sub-forum, so writing threads are to be posted in the "design" sub-forum, I believe. (And indeed, the description for that forum does indicate that it covers writing, I now see.)

As to UI matters, I would imagine that they would likely go under design, too, or perhaps art.

[litHermit]

UI is most definitely a design field.

[VirviVR]

Very nice

[Thaumaturge]

UI is most definitely a design field.

I could see an argument for considering it as fitting under visual art, but I think that you're likely correct: in general, UI development fits best under "design". (Excluding, of course, cases in which a poster has a question specifically relating to the artistic or technical aspects of UI development--but those are exceptions, I think.)

[litHermit]

I could see an argument for considering it as fitting under visual art, but I think that you're likely correct: in general, UI development fits best under "design". (Excluding, of course, cases in which a poster has a question specifically relating to the artistic or technical aspects of UI development--but those are exceptions, I think.)

While you're not wrong, it's still usually best to bundle those cases under (graphic) design as well. The purpose of a user interface is function, usability. Whatever artistic form it has, its main purpose is still function and said form needs to follow this function and shouldn't really be observed in a vacuum. Of course there are always outliers as in anything.


To not be completely off-topic, regarding the original post:

"He would say" or "he used to say" would be a better fit if it's something that occurred more than once in the past. "He said" would be a better fit if you're referencing a specific occurrence of the event (which doesn't seem to be the case from the context).

To me "telling jokes" seems much less offensive and less specific than "making fun of". But this might be just my stylistic preference.

An issue I have with the second paragraph is the redundant use of the word "started". Also the whole structure of that paragraph is a bit off. The "fight fire with fire" idiom is a bit muddled. It attempts to be descriptive but I don't feel it does the scene justice.
The "big words" metaphor is not really understood easily - I'd suggest calling them what they are instead - insults.

Here's my alternative take on it with some really hefty stylistic changes, take from it what you will.

I was having a drink with some friends at the Triton, when I overheard Duvivier making fun of the widow Clissonet. Riled up with a little too much to drink, I decided to fight back - fire with fire. Quickly insults were flying between us, the only thing stopping us from punching each other was that we were both too deep in a drunken stupor.

[barta]

"He would say"

that's perfect. thank you!

Here's my alternative take on it with some really hefty stylistic changes

it sounds way better, but i think it's a bit too rich a vocabulary. i should have given more context: the visual novel is about meeting characters from a ww1 trench, telling short stories about themselves. apart from officers, most of them would use a simple vocabulary, and a simple way of speaking, as they are low class, and probably didn't even went to school.
after thinking about it, and scouring the internet, here's what i came up with:

I am Jeannot Herbier, from Tarascon. I'm here because of that swine Duvivier. I was having a drink with some friends at the Triton, when I heard Duvivier telling jokes about the widow Clissonet. I made a few remarks of my own, and we went at it. Nobody threw any punches, but only because we had both tippled too much. He called me a coward, whereupon I took my hat and overcoat, and went straight to volunteer. So to show him who's the coward. Now I'm here, and that pig's still in town, and he's free to bother the widow.

but i'll consider the 'overheard', and i will definitely use the 'he would say'. that was exactly what i was looking for.

[Thaumaturge]

While you're not wrong, it's still usually best to bundle those cases under (graphic) design as well. ...

While I see what you're saying, and thing that you may be correct in many cases, I'm not sure that I would take it quite so far, myself. However, as you say, this is a bit off-topic, so I'll just register my disagreement and, i you're willing, agree to disagree!

"He would say" or "he used to say" would be a better fit if it's something that occurred more than once in the past. "He said" would be a better fit if you're referencing a specific occurrence of the event (which doesn't seem to be the case from the context).

Hmm... I think that "he said" can still work if you're generalising ("this is the sort of thing that he said"), rather than referencing multiple instances ("these are the things that he would say"). But I may be mistaken on that!

[barta]

I think that "he said" can still work if you're generalising ("this is the sort of thing that he said"), rather than referencing multiple instances

i'd prefear to be clear that it's multiple instances. like, the owner wasn't happy with him, and he'd keep telling him why. here's what i settled for: I was a clerk in a drapery in town, but the owner wasn't happy with me, he'd say I had too many women on my mind.

here's another one i'm not satisfied with.

I volunteered because I thought they wouldn't take me, because of my age, so I would have made a good impression without risking anything. Instead, I find myself here, and at the pharmacy I left my wife. If they kill me, she won't be a widow for long, even if she's not so young anymore, and she's got big hips. Whoever will marry her will settle for life, because the pharmacy will stay with her, and we never had kids.

to me it sounds a bit contrived and wordy. it sounds a little better in italian, but not that much. so if you come up with anything better, i'm all hears.

[Thaumaturge]

i'd prefear to be clear that it's multiple instances. like, the owner wasn't happy with him, and he'd keep telling him why. here's what i settled for: I was a clerk in a drapery in town, but the owner wasn't happy with me, he'd say I had too many women on my mind.

Ah, that makes good sense--in which case, I think that "he'd say" is a good choice, and works well in that sentence. ^_^

Hmm... I would suggest that it doesn't quite flow well, however. You might perhaps use a colon or a dash instead of a comma after "wasn't happy with me".

I volunteered because I thought they wouldn't take me, because of my age, so I would have made a good impression without risking anything.

I might suggest breaking this up into two sentences: "I volunteered because I thought they wouldn't take me, because of my age. I would have made a good impression without risking anything."

Instead, I find myself here, and at the pharmacy I left my wife.

Right now, this might be read as indicating that "here" is "the pharmacy [where] I left my wife". I think that, while it's not actually incorrect for the meaning that (I gather that) you intend, it's a little ambiguous after "I find myself here". Instead, I suggest something like "and my wife I left to work at the pharmacy". Indeed, it might be better yet to break this up into two sentences: "Instead, I find myself here. I left my wife behind, working at the pharmacy".

If they kill me, she won't be a widow for long, even if she's not so young anymore, and she's got big hips. Whoever will marry her will settle for life, because the pharmacy will stay with her, and we never had kids. [/i]

Since just earlier in the paragraph the narrator was talking about a group of people, the change in who "they" (presumably) are might make for a bump in the flow of the sentence. I'd suggest something like "f the enemy kills me", or "f I'm killed here".

I'd also suggest a colon between "for long" and "even if", rather than a comma.

Regarding "and she's got big hips": right now, as I read it, the narrator is suggesting that large hips are an unattractive quality. Is that the intention? If not... then I'm not quite sure of what you are trying to say, and so don't know what to suggest--sorry! ^^;

Whoever will marry her will settle for life, because the pharmacy will stay with her, and we never had kids. [/i]

I think that it would be slightly more grammatically correct to say "[w]hoever marries her", rather than "[w]hoever will marry her".

[barta]

You might perhaps use a colon or a dash instead of a comma

i used only commas and dots, and occasionally 'air quotes', for thirty pages of script. the code for the text animation is sensible to this kind of punctuation only, making a little pause after commas, and requiring player input after dots. i can't quite remember why i did that... perhaps i thought it would better resemble spoken language.

here's how i changed the text following your suggestions:

I volunteered because I thought they wouldn't take me, because of my age.
So I would have made a good impression without risking anything. ('so to make' instead of 'so i would have made'?)
Instead, I find myself here, and at the pharmacy I left my wife. *1)
If I die here, *2) she won't be a widow for long, even if she's not so young anymore, and she's got big hips. *3)
Whoever marries her will settle for life, because the pharmacy will stay with her, and we never had kids.

1) the character is going to be encountered in a trench. with a 3d model and all. i don't think readers would be confused by the 'here'. 'my wife i left to work at the pharmacy' would perhaps confuse readers more because they'd think, 'why, did he consider bringing her with him?'.
2) repetition? now there's two 'here' very close to each other.
3) the big hips are a sign of her age, just another way of saying she's getting old, and thus unattractive. in the speaker's perspective, at least. perhaps i should just delete that last part, but the sentence would feel too short and not clear enough. the speaker is convinced she'd find a new husband not because of her looks/age, but because of the pharmacy.

the project is this: https://barta.itch.io/adrian

[Thaumaturge]

i used only commas and dots, and occasionally 'air quotes', for thirty pages of script. the code for the text animation is sensible to this kind of punctuation only, making a little pause after commas, and requiring player input after dots. i can't quite remember why i did that... perhaps i thought it would better resemble spoken language.

Ah, I see. Fair enough, then--although I do fear that it may be a bit limiting, even in representing spoken language, and may result in some awkward sentences. That said, if it's working for you, then good! ^_^

I volunteered because I thought they wouldn't take me, because of my age.
So I would have made a good impression without risking anything. ('so to make' instead of 'so i would have made'?)

"So to make" isn't actually incorrect, and I've heard it before, I think, but it does feel awkward to me and I don't think that it's a common usage. However, I do stand to be corrected on that, and it's also possible that it was more common in the period and place in which you're writing. (I'm not familiar with the speech-patters of that time, I fear.) So, if your research supports it, then go for it!

Without such research, I'm inclined to stick with "so I would have made".

Instead, I find myself here, and at the pharmacy I left my wife. *1)
...
1) the character is going to be encountered in a trench. with a 3d model and all. i don't think readers would be confused by the 'here'. 'my wife i left to work at the pharmacy' would perhaps confuse readers more because they'd think, 'why, did he consider bringing her with him?'.

While I don't think that it will result in serious confusion, ambiguous phrasing can nevertheless result in the reader metaphorically "stumbling" when they encounter it, if I'm not much mistaken. The reader quickly understands, but the flow of reading is interrupted as they, even if briefly, sort out what was meant.

Conversely, I don't see the suggestion of the character having thought to bring his wife with him in the other phrasing, myself.

Hmm... An alternate suggestion: "Instead, I find myself here. And my wife is back in <wherever he's from>, working at the pharmacy."

2) repetition? now there's two 'here' very close to each other.

Hmm... I'm not sure of how serious it is, offhand. However, if you're concerned about it, I suggest just dropping the second "here" (i.e. leaving it as simply "if I die").

If I die here, *2) she won't be a widow for long, even if she's not so young anymore, and she's got big hips. *3)
Whoever marries her will settle for life, because the pharmacy will stay with her, and we never had kids.
...
3) the big hips are a sign of her age, just another way of saying she's getting old, and thus unattractive. in the speaker's perspective, at least. perhaps i should just delete that last part, but the sentence would feel too short and not clear enough. the speaker is convinced she'd find a new husband not because of her looks/age, but because of the pharmacy.

[/quote]

Ah, I see! However, I believe that "big hips" are sometimes used to indicate suitability for child-bearing (referring to the pelvic bone, not fat or skin). Given this, perhaps the description might instead indicate that she has "big thighs", rather than "big hips"?

[barta]

So, if your research supports it, then go for it!

you're giving a bit too much credit to me here It's going to be fine with proper modern english.

I suggest just dropping the second "here"

"Instead, I find myself here. And my wife is back in <wherever he's from>, working at the pharmacy."

she has "big thighs", rather than "big hips"?

good points. thanks.

[Thaumaturge]

you're giving a bit too much credit to me here It's going to be fine with proper modern english.

Hahah, fair enough! ^_^

good points. thanks.

It's my pleasure! Good luck with the rest of your writing (and development in general, for that matter)! ^_^

By the way, one last suggestion: have you considered looking for a dedicated writing forum (or active sub-forum) from which to seek feedback? You might get more feedback from such a place, I imagine.