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December 10, 2019, 10:02:00 PM

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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessWhich quality would you rather a game have?
Poll
Question: If you had to choose only one for a game you would like to play:  (Voting closed: August 27, 2019, 04:29:09 AM)
Available on mobile platforms - 0 (0%)
Open source - 5 (100%)
Total Voters: 5

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Author Topic: Which quality would you rather a game have?  (Read 614 times)
fluffrabbit
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« on: August 20, 2019, 04:29:09 AM »

I know most of us are PC gamers here, but I thought it pertinent to ask this question for my own research.

Thanks!
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Cobralad
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2019, 04:35:27 AM »

would you like tomato or a boat
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2019, 04:44:37 AM »

Always entertaining replies by the TIG forum sages, but I really am trying to find a niche that is more specific than just "indie". There are a lot of projects on this site and I want mine to be seen. There are a lot of "casual" indie games, a lot of "smart" indie games, but if I follow the games-for-purchase PC model it may not work out too well. That's my concern.
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2019, 08:47:17 AM »

whether a game is open or closed source or not has never ever been a concern to me
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 09:24:49 AM »

whether a game is open or closed source or not has never ever been a concern to me

Great, and it only affects development if one is using an uber-proprietary tool like Unity, which I am currently not anyways. However, I might have to switch, depending...

How about platforms? Are you just a PC guy when it comes to games?
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Silbereisen
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 12:33:07 PM »

moved because fits better here.

i have to say i still don't really understand the question though. it seems odd to ask for a preference between these mostly unrelated categories (hence cobralad's post). plus they aren't even mutually exclusive, i.e. there are open source games on mobile.
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2019, 12:56:52 PM »

Yeah, but see the discussion here. Mobile platforms by and large break open source software. It's tremendously harder to target (for example) Android and iOS if you're using your own free software toolchain. But if you use Unity, which is incompatible with the free software philosophy, it works. So I consider these things mutually exclusive for now.

It's a shame, really. I've invested a lot of time into research in this area, and no, I can't just work on the game, I have to work on the code. It's a C/C++ project and that's just how it is for now unless I see that there is a demand for something else.
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2019, 01:24:55 PM »

whether a game is open or closed source or not has never ever been a concern to me

Great, and it only affects development if one is using an uber-proprietary tool like Unity, which I am currently not anyways. However, I might have to switch, depending...

How about platforms? Are you just a PC guy when it comes to games?
i'll play like, into the breach on my laptop, everything else is on console
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2019, 01:45:48 PM »

Console guy, gotcha. Well, I currently can't do anything there. Thanks for the feedback!
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ThemsAllTook
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2019, 04:40:43 PM »

Mobile platforms by and large break open source software. It's tremendously harder to target (for example) Android and iOS if you're using your own free software toolchain.

I dunno, this doesn't really match my experience. I've written an open source framework that can target the three big desktop platforms and the two big phone platforms, and each one of the five was roughly an equal amount of work. Phones have the issue of provisioning and deployment to another device and all that nonsense, but just in terms of getting code up and running on them, they were only marginally more effort than the desktop platforms were.
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Silbereisen
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2019, 04:58:31 PM »

Yeah, but see the discussion here. Mobile platforms by and large break open source software. It's tremendously harder to target (for example) Android and iOS if you're using your own free software toolchain. But if you use Unity, which is incompatible with the free software philosophy, it works. So I consider these things mutually exclusive for now.

It's a shame, really. I've invested a lot of time into research in this area, and no, I can't just work on the game, I have to work on the code. It's a C/C++ project and that's just how it is for now unless I see that there is a demand for something else.

ah ok, i get it now.   Smiley

at any rate, i still can't answer this in blanket way. i appreciate it on some abstract level when people open source their games, but for me as a player it's also kind of irrelevant, unless it's the kind of game that benefits from community contributions and people making their own branches etc (e.g. most of the "traditional" roguelikes).

i mainly play on pc, but play mobile games occasionally. whether i want a game on mobile depends on whether it's a good fit for the mobile platform (allows for short play sessions, works well with a touch ui, doesn't drain too much battery and stuff like that). in my first few years of owning an iphone i would often buy ports of games from other platforms because of the "wow final fantasy tactics... on a phone!" factor. the truth of the matter is, i ended up mostly not playing those ports of big games and played smaller developed-for-mobile games instead.
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2019, 01:09:26 AM »

Quote
they were only marginally more effort than the desktop platforms were

That has not been my experience at all. I won't go into details, but each mobile platform has issues that GCC/Linux does not. If it's not as simple as a makefile, the SDK vendor is up to something rather shady. Maybe the Android Studio and Xcode users don't see it that way, but I stick to tried and true free software tools exclusively. Got mysterious binaries? Containerize and build deterministically.

Quote
at any rate, i still can't answer this in blanket way. i appreciate it on some abstract level when people open source their games, but for me as a player it's also kind of irrelevant, unless it's the kind of game that benefits from community contributions and people making their own branches etc (e.g. most of the "traditional" roguelikes).

i mainly play on pc, but play mobile games occasionally. whether i want a game on mobile depends on whether it's a good fit for the mobile platform (allows for short play sessions, works well with a touch ui, doesn't drain too much battery and stuff like that).

So you're a PC guy. Thanks for the feedback!

Quote
developed-for-mobile

Top-tier strategy would be to make uber cool indie PC game and port it to everything.
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Cobralad
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2019, 01:41:30 AM »

the problem with phones is that you have upleasant sliding controls, no buttons, small screens, heating battery and not enough space. clickers are only games where you can do input without looking directly at buttons. All the "its like a real game" stuff kinda feels like a gimmick or targeted more for tablets.
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2019, 03:53:00 AM »

In my experience, Game Boy Color emulates well even on the smallest Android phones. With only a handful of on-screen buttons it's not bad. It's these crazy console FPSes that make gamers think that controls have to be complicated.
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ThemsAllTook
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2019, 06:26:55 AM »

That has not been my experience at all. I won't go into details, but each mobile platform has issues that GCC/Linux does not. If it's not as simple as a makefile, the SDK vendor is up to something rather shady. Maybe the Android Studio and Xcode users don't see it that way, but I stick to tried and true free software tools exclusively. Got mysterious binaries? Containerize and build deterministically.

Right, that's probably the biggest barrier. Both Android and iOS required me to do some reverse engineering to break free of their awful prescribed toolsets. Maybe I got lucky in both cases and it could have been a much larger headache. I guess I'm also technically not sure that the output of my custom build system would be accepted if I were to submit to either of their storefronts, since although it runs fine on my device, it might still be missing some component they expect everything to have for official acceptance.
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2019, 08:53:07 AM »

You're a pretty cool guy if you can do what you claim you're doing. I can't speak for Apple's storefront, but Google Play accepts just about anything as long as:

* The "target" SDK version is equivalent to at least Android 7 (I forget the API level), though any "build" SDK version will do as long as as you're like "of course it works on Android N"
* Support for ARM w/ hard floating point, 32-bit and 64-bit (x86 optional)
* Don't do "designed for families"

Want to collaborate? My email is my username @ aol.com.
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2019, 09:53:25 AM »

Holy shit, that is one crystal-clear poll. OK. I've been told that mobile ads are a good revenue source, but I suppose people around here are more about desktop gaming and code stability.

Very well, Cave Confectioner will remain a PC game, possibly with an eventual engine source release, and I'll only bother with phones for the less ambitious projects. Thanks, folks!
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