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TIGSource ForumsCommunityTownhallA Door to the Mists--Demo released!
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« on: August 31, 2019, 07:04:57 AM »

[Major update on 26 January, 2020]



"Adventure is My Path"

Traversal, Puzzles, and Combat in a Heroic-Fantasy Setting

I've just released a "redux" demo for A Door to the Mists!

You should find it here:
https://thaumaturge-art.itch.io/a-door-to-the-mists-demo

(And that itch.io page has been significantly revamped, too!)

Press-kit:
http://thaumaturge-art.com/press/sheet.php?p=a_door_to_the_mists

Trailer:





Major Updates:

This demo incorporates a lot of fixes, changes, and tweaks, some in response to player-feedback on the previous demo. A full list would be... exhaustive--but the major changes are these:

  • Reworked combat!
    • An updated approach to controlling the action
    • Reworked AI
    • More-detailed accessibility/difficulty options
  • Improved traversal
    • Both mechanically and in the layout of the first two levels
  • Performance improvements
  • More things to see and find in the third level




About the Game:

An adventurer with a yearning to explore the inaccessible, misty world of magic hears a tale of a door that opens onto that world, located in a lost city. She embarks on a journey through desolate and dangerous places to discover this city and its door, and enter the mist-world.




Core Features:

  • Traversal and exploration, with universal mantling
  • Puzzle-solving, both in-level and via minigame puzzles
  • Combat, sparse and one-on-one

« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 09:23:18 AM by Thaumaturge » Logged


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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2019, 07:32:40 PM »

A new build of the demo has been uploaded!

This build fixes a major issue in which the game would crash after the first screen when running under Windows, as well as addressing a few other matters.

Get it from the same link as given before. That should be found above--but for the sake of convenience, let me link it here, too:

Windows 64-bit Build | Linux 64-bit Build


Updates in this build:
  • The crash observed when leaving the first screen under Windows should now be fixed!
  • Made the tutorial-traversal a little clearer and simpler. (Hopefully!)
  • Added an indicative title to the lore-screen that's accessed from the main menu.
  • Logging should now work properly.
    • The log-file should be found in the game's "app-data" directory:
      • Under Windows, this should be "Users/<user-name>/AppData/Local/ADoorToTheMists/"
      • Under Linux, this should be "<home>/.local/share/ADoorToTheMists"
  • Fixed a bug that could result in a crash if the player entered combat while a conversation was ongoing.
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2019, 11:24:21 AM »

I just briefly played the demo. Here is some feedback in no particular order:
 
- Why would anyone jump down into a dark hole and AFTERWARDS tie a rope to the upper ledge? :D
(I didn't see it in the inventory before)
- The UI / Text is scaled wrongly in high resolution. Half of the textboxes in the intro are outside of the screen and cannot be read. I'm playing in 4k with a scaling of 200% in Win 10.
- It crashed for me when I tried to climb up the rope
- After changing the resolution in the main menu, the cursor was restricted to a portion of the screen, so I could not click on any button anymore
- The menu looks great, though. I like the background and the cool mist effect behind the buttons.
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2019, 11:55:42 AM »

I just briefly played the demo. Here is some feedback in no particular order:

Thank you very much for the feedback! It's very much appreciated! ^_^
 
- Why would anyone jump down into a dark hole and AFTERWARDS tie a rope to the upper ledge? :D
(I didn't see it in the inventory before)

Hah, if I recall correctly, the ropes were just a means to let the player out of the pyramid. They aren't intended to show up after that. ^^;

But you do have that rock near the hole by which to sound it, at least. Wink

- The UI / Text is scaled wrongly in high resolution. Half of the textboxes in the intro are outside of the screen and cannot be read. I'm playing in 4k with a scaling of 200% in Win 10.

Ah, that's a pity! If I may ask, what resolution were you using, precisely, and what is the effect of that "scaling" that you describe? (I'm not familiar with that feature--or Windows 10 in general, for that matter.)

- It crashed for me when I tried to climb up the rope

Oof, that's distressing! Could you give me your logfile, please, so that I can see whether there's useful error output in it? (Presuming that you haven't run the game since the crash, which would have overwritten the file.)

- After changing the resolution in the main menu, the cursor was restricted to a portion of the screen, so I could not click on any button anymore

That's a new one to me! Could it be related to that "scaling" that you previously mentioned? I might have to ask after that on the engine's forum...

- The menu looks great, though. I like the background and the cool mist effect behind the buttons.

Thank you very much indeed!

I'm really sorry that you've encountered such problems as you've described--I haven't seen those ones before! :/

(Well, aside from the mysterious appearance and timing of the rope. I'm aware of that one. ;P)
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2019, 12:56:13 PM »

Well, I have found the logfile, but it only says:
Known pipe types:
  wglGraphicsPipe
(all display modules loaded.)
:Actor(warning): Cannot control joint head
 
I am running the game in 4k, 3840x2160. And the scaling is a window option to scale all fonts etc. up as they would be too tiny in 100%. That value is set to 200%.
This isn't the first game or application that has problems with that, although it is a standard mechanism. I guess not enough people are running 4k, yet. Smiley
 
I played a bit further. The rope crash is not consistently reproducable for me. I was able to climb it this time. In the fight tutorial when it says: Press A or D to dodge and he starts to attack from above, I pressed A, but was still hit. It felt as if I should have dodged it by moving left. Smiley
The block mechanism is easy to understand and easy to recognize by the visuals, but the distance that you have to move the mouse to get from one block direction to another varies as the mouse isn't restricted and the direction just relies on the mouse position on the screen. I think that can be improved by restricting the mouse more to the center of the screen and react to the movement direction only. Just an idea. Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2019, 03:06:59 PM »

Well, I have found the logfile, but it only says:
Known pipe types:
  wglGraphicsPipe
(all display modules loaded.)
:Actor(warning): Cannot control joint head

Ah, it's a pity that it doesn't have more. If you don't mind, could you tell me what you had done, and how far you had gotten, when the crash occurred? (Which rope you were climbing, whether you'd solved the button-puzzle, etc.) I want to try to reproduce the issue on my end--if I can do that, I may well be able to figure out what's causing it! (And if I can't reproduce it, perhaps a bit more information might point me to the culprit--perhaps I'm doing something silly in the level-script, or something.)
 
I am running the game in 4k, 3840x2160. And the scaling is a window option to scale all fonts etc. up as they would be too tiny in 100%. That value is set to 200%.
This isn't the first game or application that has problems with that, although it is a standard mechanism. I guess not enough people are running 4k, yet. Smiley

I don't think that my monitors are even capable of running that resolution. o_o;

Hum--I think that I should ask after this on the game-engine's forum: I don't think that it's something that I'm doing in my own code--and if it is, someone on that forum might point out to me what I'm doing wrong!

I played a bit further. The rope crash is not consistently reproducable for me. I was able to climb it this time.

Ah, I'm glad that you were able to proceed, at least!

In the fight tutorial when it says: Press A or D to dodge and he starts to attack from above, I pressed A, but was still hit. It felt as if I should have dodged it by moving left. Smiley

Hmm... I wonder whether that's a matter of my hit-detection being off, or because my combat mechanic doesn't use I-frames?

(To elaborate on the latter point: dodging works by getting you out of the way of an incoming attack. If the timing of the dodge is off, you do still get hit.)

Or a tutorial issue, perhaps? Maybe I should slow those first attacks a little, to give the player more time to respond...?

The block mechanism is easy to understand and easy to recognize by the visuals, but the distance that you have to move the mouse to get from one block direction to another varies as the mouse isn't restricted and the direction just relies on the mouse position on the screen. I think that can be improved by restricting the mouse more to the center of the screen and react to the movement direction only. Just an idea. Smiley

That's a really interesting idea--I think that I'll try that, thank you! :D
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2019, 12:52:06 AM »

Rope of mistrust: I just tried to get back up to the top of the pyramid after accidentally, but intentionally falling in. That was the crash. Didn't happen a second time. I kinda pounced it to get back up. Still don't know how to activate "climb". Smiley
 
I don't know what system you are using. Most do have a scaling feature for texts etc. (DPI). You don't need a higher resolution probably, just increase that value to test. If it's only occurring on windows, then do a small executable with only some text box tests. I would offer to test that.

About the dodge: I will check it out later again, but I kinda remember it as being almost instantly after the tutorial text box and my character didn't move at all. Probably I need to press A to close the box, then A again to actually move.
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2019, 11:03:57 AM »

Rope of mistrust:

Heh, I like this name! ^_^

I just tried to get back up to the top of the pyramid after accidentally, but intentionally falling in. That was the crash. Didn't happen a second time. I kinda pounced it to get back up.

Ah, interesting! That gives me a narrower set of actions to try--thank you for that! ^_^

Still don't know how to activate "climb". Smiley

Heh, in general, just hold the "jump" key while in the air (i.e. not on the ground, a rope, or a ladder). If you are in the air because you jumped, you needn't release the key (unless you want to avoid climbing something in-between). If you come within range of something that you can climb, you should automatically climb it.

I think that there is at least one case in which releasing the key and pressing it again is called for, which is possibly a bug--but I don't think that I've seen that occur when dealing with the rope in the prologue level.
 
I don't know what system you are using. Most do have a scaling feature for texts etc. (DPI). You don't need a higher resolution probably, just increase that value to test. If it's only occurring on windows, then do a small executable with only some text box tests. I would offer to test that.

I brought up the matter on the engine's forum, and it looks like support for that scaling factor is still somewhat under discussion. From what I gather, the question of how the engine is to respond to such things isn't a simple one. :/

That said, I've just realised that the issue of text-box placement may not be related to your "scaling" value, or use of a high-definition display: I was reminded just a little while before posting this that something similar has been reported to happen under some aspect ratios, and in non-high-definition, I gather.

Thus the text-box placement is indeed a bug for me to fix, it seems!

To which end, what aspect ratio were you using, if I may ask?

As to the problem of the mouse being confined to a small part of the screen, it looks like this is a bug in the engine; I believe that they've filed an issue for it on their GitHub page.

About the dodge: I will check it out later again, but I kinda remember it as being almost instantly after the tutorial text box and my character didn't move at all. Probably I need to press A to close the box, then A again to actually move.

You say that you use "A" to close the box? Are you using a gamepad, by any chance? If so, I think that the dodge controls should be connected to whatever you have mapped to character-movement, rather than whatever you have mapped to performing actions.

And just to check: you weren't out of stamina, were you?

That said, I have been thinking about how I tutorialise this element. I haven't yet settled on anything, but I'm thinking about having a box that pauses the fight and explicitly requires that the player press a "dodge" key--upon which it would continue the fight and enact the dodge immediately.
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« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2019, 11:23:15 AM »

To which end, what aspect ratio were you using, if I may ask?
Standard 16:9, like in normal Full HD (1920x1080). It is exactly twice the width and height.

You say that you use "A" to close the box? Are you using a gamepad, by any chance? If so, I think that the dodge controls should be connected to whatever you have mapped to character-movement, rather than whatever you have mapped to performing actions.

And just to check: you weren't out of stamina, were you?

That said, I have been thinking about how I tutorialise this element. I haven't yet settled on anything, but I'm thinking about having a box that pauses the fight and explicitly requires that the player press a "dodge" key--upon which it would continue the fight and enact the dodge immediately.
I would have to play it again to answer those questions. I was playing with keyboard and (if I remember correctly) "A" was used to dodge to the left.
Waiting for the relevant key to be pressed in the tutorial is the right way to do this, I guess. Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2019, 09:37:45 AM »

Standard 16:9, like in normal Full HD (1920x1080). It is exactly twice the width and height.

That's odd--someone else tried it, and only reported having trouble in a 3:2 aspect ratio, I believe--even on an HD display with a scaling factor set. Hmm... This may call for further investigation on my part. Thank you for the information!

I would have to play it again to answer those questions. I was playing with keyboard and (if I remember correctly) "A" was used to dodge to the left.

Yup, "A" would be correct for a keyboard setup, I believe--I was just confused because you referred to using "A" to close the tutorial!

Waiting for the relevant key to be pressed in the tutorial is the right way to do this, I guess. Smiley

I think that it's likely what I'll do, indeed! ^_^

Thank you for your patience and answers! ^_^
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2019, 01:09:01 PM »

You're welcome!
 
This is what it looks like BTW:
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2019, 09:25:45 AM »

Aah, I see! Yeah, that's almost certainly the scaling--the text isn't supposed to be anywhere near that big!

That gives me a point of reference to work from--thank you. ^_^
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2020, 12:09:01 PM »

I've just released a "redux" demo--a version of the demo that incorporates myriad fixes, tweaks, and changes, some in response to player-feedback.

I've updated the first post, but in short:

Demo link:
https://thaumaturge-art.itch.io/a-door-to-the-mists-demo

Major updates:
  • Reworked combat!
    • An updated approach to controlling the action
    • Reworked AI
    • More-detailed accessibility/difficulty options
  • Improved traversal
    • Both mechanically and in the layout of the first two levels
  • Performance improvements
  • More things to see and find in the third level

Have fun, and let me know what you think! ^_^
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2020, 04:43:29 PM »

​I've just uploaded a minor update to the game, which hopefully fixes a crash that could occur if one minimised the game-window during the first level.

(The crash looks to have been caused by an issue with certain forces applied in a particle system used by that level.)

Save-games should be unaffected.
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2020, 04:35:47 AM »

Here is my lengthy let's play in unintelligible English. :D
 
I like the game. Some parts could use some more work (the climbing, too quickly vanishing tutorial texts, chests falling through floor), but the overall mechanics lead to a pretty cool gameplay.
 


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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2020, 07:26:47 AM »

Thank you very much--for playing the game, for let's playing it, and for the commentary all! I've put the video onto my "watch later" list, and am interested to see what you have to say about the game and the mechanics (and just to see someone play it, too). ^_^

I'm glad that you did overall like it. ^_^
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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2020, 11:58:04 AM »

Okay, I'm watching it now, and recording some responses and thoughts as I go!

(By the way, I see that it's currently set to be "unlisted"; if that's intentional, then fair enough! I mention it in case it's not. ^_^)

Oof, those vanishing tutorial texts! What's happening there is that they're controlled by triggers, and when the player leaves the trigger they disappear. I may try to find a more-nuanced approach, like having them reappear on the player re-entering their triggers if a condition hasn't been met. Alternatively, I might just save them to a tutorial log, allowing the player to go back and look at them at their leisure...

Regarding mouse-wheel controls in the menus: I very much agree--unfortunately, the engine's built-in GUI makes that difficult. For now you can, at least, scroll via mouse-wheel if you first hover over the scroll-bar. (The same is true for the various sliders: they can be scrolled via mouse-wheel if you hover over them first.)

I have it in mind to look for a way around it for a future version!

I do think that something drastic is called for in that climbing tutorial--a significant redesign of the traversal elements. Those sloped blocks really are a bit difficult for the player's first encounter with climbing, I fear... :/

Hmm... I see that I might want to be more careful with the combat tutorial! Perhaps have it ignore attack-presses until a certain time has passed, to prevent accidental skips. Furthermore, you managed to prevent a tutorial coming up (the one that would have told you how to deal with special attacks)--I should look to finding a way to ensure that it shows! >_<

Regarding running... The inclusion of a "run"-button been a debate that I've had with myself a number of times. It does feel like such a button would be useful; there have been times when I myself have wanted one. But on the other hand, the game has quite a few buttons already, and I'm worried about over-complicating it... It's a tricky one... :/

The chests falling through the floor was alarming! I don't think that I've seen that happen so reliably! o_o I wonder whether it's a frame-rate thing...? Very odd.

Regarding the translation puzzles, you had all of the word-roots needed--but note that some parts of a word are grammatical--things like plurals, etc.--and you're not required to match those.

Put another way, if the translation puzzle had the word "cats", you would be required to match "cat", but not "s".

As to your goal... there's a tab in the "collections" screen--the one with your inventory--that holds your current goal. Perhaps it might be worth adding a character-thought to provide some guidance, too!

I really enjoyed watching your playthrough, and it was quite instructive for me as a designer! Thank you indeed! :D

I've made a number of notes for future work on the game, thanks to this playthrough. ^_^
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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2020, 12:27:00 PM »

You're welcome! Smiley
I'm glad, I could help you get some feedback.
  
The video is unlisted, because I didn't perform very well. ^^
I've already cut out most of the parts where I cluelessly ran in circles and embarrassed myself or completely failed to speak. XD
Thanks for pointing it out, though.
 
For those tutorial texts, you could either have a trigger region for it to appear and close it when the player leaves a larger vanish region, clicked it away or managed to fulfill the operation in the text. The idea to have them move to a list of messages, so the player can look at them again is good, too. Probably indicated by a small notification in the corner (New tutorial note!).
 
Although I sucked at that climbing, I don't think that the mechanism is that bad. And I don't think you need to add explicit climb targets (like I did in my game), so you can just stand before a ledge and press space to auto climb it. I like the physics approach. It probably just needs to be a tiny bit smoother. Smiley
 
Avoiding to skip tutorial messages can probably be done by a small countdown, waiting for the player to stop clicking for a second before reacting to it again or making the player click on a close button explicitly.
 
Well, for the running: I tried to use SHIFT, which is the standard for running. Is it used for something already? I expected you to say: "I don't want the player to rush through it."
Which I could relate to. Smiley
 
That chest bug is weird, indeed. I don't think it is the framerate. The game ran very smoothly on my machine, only the video is at only 30 frames/s.
 
Thanks for pointing out my error in the translation puzzle. That makes sense. And I really like that part. Smiley
 
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« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2020, 02:24:01 PM »

The video is unlisted, because I didn't perform very well. ^^
I've already cut out most of the parts where I cluelessly ran in circles and embarrassed myself or completely failed to speak. XD

Hahah, fair enough! That does make sense--although honestly, I didn't think that the recording was that bad at all, and indeed, you had me laughing at times! (Those poor mummies--what would they think if they heard what you thought of their tombs. Toilets indeed! Tongue)
 
For those tutorial texts, you could either have a trigger region for it to appear and close it when the player leaves a larger vanish region, clicked it away or managed to fulfill the operation in the text.

That's more or less one of the ideas that I have, indeed. I've tried to do some of that--the "examination" tutorial waits for a few conditions, including examining something. However, the "climbing" tutorial (the first one that you accidentally skipped) simply waits for you to exit its trigger, with the expectation being that you'll exit it upwards, or that in moving away you want to look at other things. But I have ideas for better conditions, I think!

The idea to have them move to a list of messages, so the player can look at them again is good, too. Probably indicated by a small notification in the corner (New tutorial note!).

I can't take credit for it! I happen to be playing Divinity: Original Sin: Enhanced Edition, which uses this approach. ^_^
 
Although I sucked at that climbing, I don't think that the mechanism is that bad. And I don't think you need to add explicit climb targets (like I did in my game), so you can just stand before a ledge and press space to auto climb it. I like the physics approach. It probably just needs to be a tiny bit smoother. Smiley

Hmm... I don't want it to be too smooth; I want it to feel like there's effort exerted in climbing, without being cumbersome. (I'm trying to avoid the over-slick feel that some games have, which would be fine in an epic fantasy story, I think, but doesn't quite work for me in a heroic fantasy story.)
 
Avoiding to skip tutorial messages can probably be done by ... waiting for the player to stop clicking for a second before reacting to it again ...

That's... actually a really good idea! Just use a timer that's reset when the button is pressed, and only allow the tutorial to disappear if the timer manages to run out!

Thank you for that! ^_^

Well, for the running: I tried to use SHIFT, which is the standard for running. Is it used for something already? I expected you to say: "I don't want the player to rush through it."
Which I could relate to. Smiley

That is actually, one of the reasons for the current movement speed: intended to be fast enough that you're not too slow, but slow enough that you don't zoom past all the stuff to be seen!

The "shift" button isn't bound to anything by default. My worry, however, is the sheer number of buttons already in use: movement, crouching, jumping, action, examination, and opening inventory/collections being only the in-game controls. I don't want the game to become unwieldy. Indeed, I'd be tempted to remove a button if I decided to add in running.

But I'll give it more thought, I intend...

That chest bug is weird, indeed. I don't think it is the framerate. The game ran very smoothly on my machine, only the video is at only 30 frames/s.

Hmm. You know, thinking about it since I posted last, I'm tempted to rework how those objects function. There's no real reason for them to be physics objects, other than convenience for me. Perhaps I should just allow them to be set in the indicated location--no falling, just appearing there--and then prevent the player from taking one when there are others on top of it (so that there are no floating objects)...

Thanks for pointing out my error in the translation puzzle. That makes sense. And I really like that part. Smiley

I'm really glad! It's one of the features that I'm a bit nervous about--I love it, but it's hard to guess at how players will take to it. So it's heartening to read a response from someone who so likes it. ^_^
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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2020, 09:22:51 AM »

A significant update to the Redux Demo has been posted!

The link is the same as before, but for the sake of convenience let me re-post it:

https://thaumaturge-art.itch.io/a-door-to-the-mists-demo

This update includes a number of changes, some of the most-salient of which are shown in this short video:





Too long, didn't watch:

  • A reworked approach to carriable objects.
    • No more dodgy physics!
    • A slightly more-intuitive method of placing objects: they're now placed more or less where the player points.
  • Revision of the tutorial/prologue traversal.
    • This should, hopefully, be a little more welcoming to new players!
  • Polish regarding the translation minigame
    • A reworking of the player's first encounters with it
    • Touch-ups to the UI
  • Running!
    • Cross distances more quickly, and jump further when desired!
  • Tutorial availability.
    • Tutorials should now be harder to accidentally miss.
    • All tutorial lessons are now available via a button on the in-game menu.
  • Updated combat audio- and visual- elements.
  • Plus various less-salient changes!

I hope that you enjoy this new version, and let me know what you think! :D
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