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1370229 Posts in 64448 Topics- by 56500 Members - Latest Member: zulaisaias

December 09, 2019, 05:15:18 AM

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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralhey are you still alive
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Mark Mayers
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« Reply #80 on: September 12, 2019, 10:24:59 AM »

Yea, I definitely agree the indie scene is weirdly insular until the indie Illuminati indoctrinates you.

Tbh aren't most scenes/cliques/subcultures that way?

Most definitely, but I feel indie game dev specifically is kind of extreme. There are few cliques where people make 10+ million dollars on their 7 year passion project and become the prom kings/queens of some bizarre internet high school.

actually I lied, that's every indie culture in the entertainment or art industry ever - the bizarre internet high school part
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litHermit
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« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2019, 10:29:50 AM »

Most definitely, but I feel indie game dev specifically is kind of extreme. There are few cliques where people make 10+ million dollars on their 7 year passion project and become the prom kings/queens of some bizarre internet high school.

Fair point. It does sort of come with the territory though (being tightly connected to a computer => being always online / being an "internet entity". Hence being "groomed" from the get go to socialize in a manner not often seen with other artist types before the Internet(aside the emerging YouTube culture and similar))

And the majority of people, whether creatives, and especially non-creatives, like to have their celebrities to live vicariously through them.

Edit:
As to your addendum, I think that's mostly just due to the shift from passive observer-mode media (TV, newspaper, radio) to interactive (the Internet)
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Alevice
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« Reply #82 on: September 12, 2019, 10:48:44 AM »

There isnt really much going on in the secret forums other than the ocassional shitpost, and some threads that people dint feel comfortable posting more publicly (devlogs, etc) out of concern for hostility. In general you wont find anything revealing about the nature of the indie clique within them or the indielluminati ruling from there.

I dont think we need any form of social darwinism through reactions imo. If anyone has some criticism or feedback to provide, they can express it through words. Reactions really only would exist as a necessity for people who dont feel like spamming "hey i like this!", which is a vcommon concern. no one who has given feedback/criticism has felt alienated to provide it througgh existing means.
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litHermit
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« Reply #83 on: September 12, 2019, 10:57:24 AM »

I agree that reactions are largely unnecessary and words are a better (and preferred) way of feedback.

Still, some sort of functionality like adding a devlog to favorites, a stat visible only the devlog creator and the person favoriting, would solve a couple of lesser problems (if viable, am not very well versed in what forums are easily capable of these days).

The dev gets to see interest from non-engaging users which don't like to post +1/follows. The user gets to voice interest and follow the topic. Everyone else is non-the-wiser.
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Alevice
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« Reply #84 on: September 12, 2019, 11:04:37 AM »

sorry i was mostly against negative reactions, no reactions in general. i believe it is fine to have positive/neutral reactions since not everyone wants to just post "cool", or "wow", but can still provide thier feelings on the matter.

negative reactions cant fairly "automate" criticism, which should be elaborated imo, hence why i feel they should always be expressed via a post.
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Cobralad
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« Reply #85 on: September 12, 2019, 11:06:46 AM »

how you guys feel about indie games as a hobby in this moment in time?
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #86 on: September 12, 2019, 11:07:04 AM »

Hmm, I like the "hidden likes" system. We definitely also need to overhaul thread subscribing, and a favorite system would indeed be a solution to that.

Anyway, again, there's pretty much no one left on tigsource who regularly posts in the hidden boards so it's not a concern anymore. It IS within our power to remove that requirement, but there's no point rn since, again, they are dead boards.
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Mark Mayers
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« Reply #87 on: September 12, 2019, 11:08:01 AM »

Ehhh, I think reactions would reduce the interactivity of the site and discourage people from posting.
Likes/faves/etc. are super impersonal and part of why those 'three websites which everyone visits' are so superficial.
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #88 on: September 12, 2019, 11:09:53 AM »

how you guys feel about indie games as a hobby in this moment in time?

I feel that communities focusing on hobbyist gamedev have formed around other things, like PICO-8 for example. Also, the generally poor financial security of this political climate isn't very conducive to just doing things for fun.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 11:15:34 AM by ProgramGamer » Logged

Mark Mayers
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« Reply #89 on: September 12, 2019, 11:13:17 AM »

how you guys feel about indie games as a hobby in this moment in time?

Hobby dev? Probably never been better.
 
Commercial dev? Yikes.
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #90 on: September 12, 2019, 11:15:18 AM »

Faving a thread would just notify you of new posts in the same way that the "new unread posts" page currently does. It would replace that system. The number would also be visible to the thread OP, but not to the public. Same deal with likes/reactions, though the point with them is just to remove the friction of having to post a message in order to express an emotional reaction to another post.
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Alevice
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« Reply #91 on: September 12, 2019, 11:21:20 AM »

Ehhh, I think reactions would reduce the interactivity of the site and discourage people from posting.
Likes/faves/etc. are super impersonal and part of why those 'three websites which everyone visits' are so superficial.

tbh i feel the inverse happen. too many lurkers have come out accross the years saying they dont feel like posting a simple "wow thats nice", so i dont feel nothing changes in the actual activity and egagement side other than having lurkers ebign able to like a thing.
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #92 on: September 12, 2019, 12:59:04 PM »

Might as well provide a full array of reaction icons.
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #93 on: September 12, 2019, 01:02:16 PM »

That’s what I’ve been saying for like four thread pages. We even already have all the icons we need Smiley
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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #94 on: September 12, 2019, 01:41:01 PM »

Okay, I retract my suggestion. Don't do the icons.
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litHermit
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« Reply #95 on: September 12, 2019, 01:51:14 PM »

how you guys feel about indie games as a hobby in this moment in time?
Same as always? It's about the thrill of creating something, doesn't matter which creative vessel is the carrier of creativity. Games have always been hard to do, even if they're more accessible today than ever, the perceived "requirement of quality" (for something to be enjoyed by others) has also gone up.
I feel like a good way to be a hobby dev might be to mess around the game-jam scene.

...

re post interactions: I also think there's a clear lack of incentive to post worded feedback with such a system in place, which I'd assume is the most valuable to a dev. But that might be leveraged with lurkers engaging more in a way that doesn't draw them under the spotlight as Alevice says. I get that I'm just restating what's already said here; my point is mostly - I feel like there's a need for some sort of system which incentivizes more communication. After all a forum full of lurkers is just a ghost town, which TIG largely feels like today unlike say 10 years ago.
And it's not all down to forums being a dying breed of online communication.
 

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fluffrabbit
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« Reply #96 on: September 12, 2019, 01:54:29 PM »

Quote
And it's not all down to forums being a dying breed of online communication.

Isn't it?
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #97 on: September 12, 2019, 04:59:26 PM »

I vote for having reactions that you can post without even really logging in, just because getting a  Hand Thumbs Up Right on your thread is nice and better than silence, so if you can encourage lurkers to just hit a like button that would add to the experience.

Its a difficult thing, the insular nature of the indie world and the internet. I can see why there are a lot of people who would be a problem to include, but also it just feels bad to the non-anointed. So I don't have an easy answer. Also basically everyone who wants to make games wants to make the next big thing, so there has to be some kind of competition just as a practical matter. (I know there are hobbyists too.)

I'm just saying from my point of view, it does seem gated in a big way, and even if TIG is sort of a troll "dead end" its still unclear how to break in. I always wonder, do people know me? And I know everyone is fighting a battle they don't talk about, so I try not to take it personally, but it just feels kind of unpleasant talking to a lot of indies to me. The secret forums, even if there was literally no content in them, just add to that uneasiness.

Edit: to a non indie golden child it seems a lot like Game of Death, you have to fight and fight to get to the final boss that is just a trick anyway:





And you can set up your system that way if you want, its just you are gonna get lil' bruce lees kicking over your signpost that way.

Another example of the sentiment would be this one by Kafka: http://www.kafka-online.info/before-the-law.html

That's just the way you set it up for outsiders.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 05:11:01 PM by michaelplzno » Logged

Superb Joe
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« Reply #98 on: September 12, 2019, 11:53:29 PM »

indie development is more like game of death in that you, the reader, will assuredly die before any passion projects are complete to a point of your satisfaction
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Lurk
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« Reply #99 on: September 13, 2019, 12:03:39 AM »

The secret forums, even if there was literally no content in them, just add to that uneasiness.

Really, I've always thought the secret forums were a little joke achievement, because they were not really a secret and you gained access to them not through shadowy invites but by posting a lot.

indie development is more like game of death in that you, the reader, will assuredly die before any passion projects are complete to a point of your satisfaction

it really is, but along the way you might get skills you were probably supposed to learn in your specialized profession. Like coding robot trajectories and behaviors, finally being able to become a real-life dr.Wily which had always been your secret dream after all.
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