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October 22, 2021, 09:13:42 AM

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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsCo-Op Pipe Laying Exploration - Clomper | Unity | WIP #49
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Author Topic: Co-Op Pipe Laying Exploration - Clomper | Unity | WIP #49  (Read 9043 times)
Alain
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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2021, 11:02:03 PM »

I was right about the bug. It wasn't really a bug. It was the algorithm doing exactly what I had told it to and I had forgotten to change it!  Cheesy

Are you sure it was doing what you told it? I swear these algorithms have their own forum behind our backs where they talk about how to make the devs' lives miserable.
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brainwipe
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« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2021, 12:57:17 AM »

I was right about the bug. It wasn't really a bug. It was the algorithm doing exactly what I had told it to and I had forgotten to change it!  Cheesy

Are you sure it was doing what you told it? I swear these algorithms have their own forum behind our backs where they talk about how to make the devs' lives miserable.

Now you mention it, I can't be sure it was me. I was tired when I was writing the changes, perhaps it was fooling me?

It seems to be working now. Perhaps if I don't look at it, it'll keep working...

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Alain
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« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2021, 09:01:53 AM »

I hope it keeps working for the sake of your sanity. Btw., I hope the isolated tile that is white in the beginning of the gif is intentional Wink
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brainwipe
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« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2021, 01:44:31 PM »

Well spotted! Yes, it is intentional. That is a quest location, the players must make their way over to it. It must stay there until either quest is discarded or it's completed. It's not 100% working but I am making progress now, so hopefully that thin wrapper of sanity will stay intact.

Thanks for all the support, it means a huge amount.
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Alain
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« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2021, 12:29:59 AM »

It's good to hear the spot is intentional.

Thanks for all the support, it means a huge amount.

Your game is super interesting, it is fun to follow it. Also, I see quite some similarties to some parts of what I am working on Wink

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brainwipe
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« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2021, 05:37:25 AM »

Thank you!

Infinite tile maps that load in piecemeal are a wonderful thing, aren't they? Dragging the player vehicle around is not something that would happen in my game - but it is super useful for testing. Which game engine are you using?
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Alain
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« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2021, 08:20:04 AM »

In deed, there is something magical about it. You look at your world and you know you made it, but in a way you didn't, because the algorithm did Wink I'm using UE4.

By the way, I just watched your DevLog #33 and loved your tangent about complexity, fun and time investment.
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brainwipe
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« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2021, 12:44:22 PM »

It's been a struggle these past few weeks, I got a new bout of migraines, which take me out of work for a week at least. That stops all hobby, evening work and even being a good father. In those situations, you have to just stop and wait.

Once the fog cleared, I had a chance to fix up a bug that had alluded me for ages.

My infinite world algorithm has three pieces to it: adding tiles, removing tiles and adding special quest tiles. Under normal circumstances, the player moves and tiles get added and removed outside the view of the players.

However the quest system also needs to add tiles for the quest objects to be added to. They were placed further than the view limit, so the removal part of the algoirthm removed them immediately. My own algorithm was the cause.

I'm still taking it easy but most of the dev is working on multiplayer syncing, which is like wading through glue but important to get right.




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Alain
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« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2021, 11:17:26 PM »

It's been a struggle these past few weeks, I got a new bout of migraines, which take me out of work for a week at least. That stops all hobby, evening work and even being a good father. In those situations, you have to just stop and wait.

I'm sorry to hear that and hope the next weeks will be better for you. The video was a great watch as always!
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brainwipe
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« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2021, 11:34:37 PM »


I'm sorry to hear that and hope the next weeks will be better for you. The video was a great watch as always!

Thank you Alain! I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

I thought it was important to share the struggles as well as the successes. When things are going well, it's easy to share the successes but we rarely see when things are going rough. I hope that by sharing, others might take a little solace that they are not alone.
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Alain
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« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2021, 03:38:03 AM »

I thought it was important to share the struggles as well as the successes. When things are going well, it's easy to share the successes but we rarely see when things are going rough. I hope that by sharing, others might take a little solace that they are not alone.

Yes, this is so true. You said in a YouTube comment that you talk in a quiet voice, because you don't want to wake up your kids. These kind of anecdotes make indie games so special to me, because I remember that the persons behind them are real people.
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« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2021, 12:12:58 PM »

Yes, Alain, that's true! I only code when all family stuff and work is done, so I talk in a hushed way for that reason. I'm normally a pretty noisy sort of person.

I agree that it's part of the indie developer experience. I love that Garrett also does karate, that Matt Bull is hoping to go to Uni next autumn and so many other game dev stories. They build a connection, which I have felt lacking since the global mess kicked off. I'm proud to do my bit by staying away from others but it is hard to do.

Thank you for engaging, Alain, I really appreciate it.
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marcAKAmarc
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« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2021, 04:58:09 AM »

Love the look of the game and I'm enjoying the updates!  Any inspiration pulled from Thumper?  Sensing a lot of similarities in theming (similar name, similar realistic looking bug in a not bug environment)?

FYI:  this is thumper -

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brainwipe
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« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2021, 09:08:40 AM »

Hi Marc, Thumper looks cool but I've never seen it before. I'm flattered that you connected the two!

My inspiration came from watching my friends and I play co-op one evening. I originally wanted it to be more like the multiplayer game Artemis but pipe laying was such fun that it became the core gameplay loop. I've always had a soft spot for steampunk, so it was a short leap to making Clomper a steam powered bug. I chose ladybird because I needed a non-threatening bug for the players to live in.

Thanks for the feedback!


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brainwipe
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« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2021, 11:42:18 AM »

Coming back to a project after a short illness break is hard.

You can make it a little easier by planning your break, not leaving a huge unsolved feature or bug and setting up what you are going to do when you get back to it.

It's not always possible to plan in this way if you're taken ill (I had migraines) but if you keep organised (using Trello or GitHub projects etc) with small, well defined tasks then it's much, much easier.

I'm coming to the end of rewriting multiplayer from Photon Pun 2 to Mirror. Photon is great but the server model wasn't right for my game. I chose poorly; not Photon's fault. Mirror is OK but MLAPI has been chosen by Unity as the official since I started, so I'm a bit gutted that I've chosen poorly AGAIN. I can't rewrite again, it would break me.

I've been through all my games features informally and it all seems to hand together. My test plan from here is: a formal regression test (going through every feature in client and server to ensure it works), a LAN test with my son (whose PC is less powerful), a latency test to pretend that a client has a high ping, a brief test with a single remote friend using port forwarding and then a test with two others to see how the game plays.

I need to implement a couple of small features to help with testing: such as logging info/debug to file with timestamps.

After testing has completed, there will need to then be a period of bug fixing, rework and implementing any feedback. My friends (and son) are thankfully brutal, they will tell me straight whether things are broken.



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JobLeonard
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« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2021, 02:31:45 PM »

Sorry to hear about the migraines, that sounds tough :/
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brainwipe
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« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2021, 12:26:50 PM »

I'm at a low point right now.

Mirror is just not a good networking solution. Either I compromise my game design or rip out multiplayer (which is also compromising the design). I could wait for Unity to bring MLAPI and then reimplement multiplayer but I know that implementing a multiplayer engine after the game is built is a huge task. You need to get it in early.

Something has got to give. I've not put in new features since September; just fighting with Mirror. Recoding the same systems over and over to fit the framework only to find that something is missing: right now it's networked physics, client prediction and reconciliation.

There are some great articles and solutions on this stuff and I could code it myself but that would take months (I get about 30 minutes of good dev each day). More months reworking. That would kill the project.

So, yeah. That's where I am and it's not good.
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2021, 11:15:08 PM »

Ooof Sad

Maybe just work on other things in the game until someone else solves your problem for you? Wait, that makes no sense since you have to basically build around the network code and you can't unless you know what kind of network code you'll use :/
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Alain
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« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2021, 01:42:23 AM »

That stinks. I have my fingers crossed for you and send some positive brainwaves your way.
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brainwipe
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« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2021, 11:52:04 AM »

Ooof Sad

Maybe just work on other things in the game until someone else solves your problem for you? Wait, that makes no sense since you have to basically build around the network code and you can't unless you know what kind of network code you'll use :/

Thanks for the positive vibes. Your idea isn't actually a bad one. I've strongly considered ripping out all the multiplayer code, releasing the alpha on Itch without it (which has always been the plan) and then when Unity MLAPI is mature enough, build that in instead. It's still an option and I will keep returning to it - as a thought experiment at the very least.

The Mirror netcode devs are working on things that I believe are good features and should help in the future but there are only two of them and it's a big ask.

Thank you, though, it's a fair thought.
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