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June 19, 2021, 02:21:11 PM

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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsEVERGLORY - An Indie Real Time Strategy
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epermyakov
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« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2020, 01:51:04 PM »



Here's another tease of the resource gathering mechanics. One of those things that's just tough to program, but I'm happy with the way it works. Basically, the workers (and transport carts) not only gather the resources, but also transport them to where they are actually used. Will be dropping a devlog tomorrow or the day after, talking about it more in depth and discussing all the game design implications.
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2020, 01:58:03 AM »

Oh man, that's a tough one to get right. I recently gave Flotsam (a town builder in early access) a try and one thing I noticed that gets on my nerves is that the villagers are too freaking dumb.

First of all, when a building needs a resource they don't pick the nearest storage but sometimes go halfway across town for no apparent reason. The same applies to storing resources of course, so that makes things much worse. That's already pretty stupid. But then there's the fact that can only carry up to five things at once, but cannot (for example) pick three units up in one storage department and two in another. So in the end they're wasting at least 50% of the time walking back and forth needlessly.

I know enough about programming to understand that this is a hard problem to to solve (especially if you have multiple actors all vying for the same resources) but goodness, it's so infuriating to watch and have zero control over.
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epermyakov
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« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2020, 04:46:05 AM »

Oh man, that's a tough one to get right. I recently gave Flotsam (a town builder in early access) a try and one thing I noticed that gets on my nerves is that the villagers are too freaking dumb.

First of all, when a building needs a resource they don't pick the nearest storage but sometimes go halfway across town for no apparent reason. The same applies to storing resources of course, so that makes things much worse. That's already pretty stupid. But then there's the fact that can only carry up to five things at once, but cannot (for example) pick three units up in one storage department and two in another. So in the end they're wasting at least 50% of the time walking back and forth needlessly.

I know enough about programming to understand that this is a hard problem to to solve (especially if you have multiple actors all vying for the same resources) but goodness, it's so infuriating to watch and have zero control over.

Agreed, it's complicated and difficult to implement correctly. I do believe I have a good shot of getting it right.

Here's how the mechanic works:

At its' core, the game has "harvesters" and "storage sites". The harvesters can extract resources and move them between storage sites.

The storage sites have a CAPACITY and a DESIRED amount for each resource. Capacity is an intrinsic value while the "desired" amounts are fully controlled by the player.

Every harvester has a STRATEGY parameter which can take one of 3 values:

"Prioritize Nearest" - this will cause the harvester to load up on resources from the physically closest storage site (irregardless of its' 'desired' value) and bring the resources to its' target

"Prioritize Desired" - this will cause the harvester to load up on resources from the closest storage site where the "stored" amount is greater than the "desired" amount (i.e. the storage site has "excess" resources

"Prioritize Gathering" - if possible, the entity will gather raw resources to meet the "desires" of its' target storage site.

Moreover, every harvester has a priority list of resources, which controls the order in which he will transport the resources.

This allows for pretty good control without needing to baby the workers. Besides this, you also have full manual control - you can tell a harvester to chop a specific tree, or drop off resources at a specific site (as in classic RTS games).

Moreover, I am also focusing on "intelligence" of the workers. They handle all kinds of events gracefully. Tree chopped down? Move on to the nearest one. Source storage site destroyed? Move on to the nearest one. Needing to build a building? The peasant will transport required units (respecting priority and strategy parameters) and then immediately get to building. No need to manually set every single step.

This is all enabled by a decent pathfinding system. The units avoid each other and generally don't get stuck. (Though there are some iffy sticky cases that exist in the current build).

I'm going to demo it and talk about it in the next devlog.

Meanwhile, here's another screenshot:

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JobLeonard
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« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2020, 05:23:29 AM »

So you're trying to turn the problem on its head by making giving the player control over logistics behavior, arguably converting it into a game mechanic on its own? Neat! It sounds like this is a good balance between micro- and macro-level control - have to see it in action to really get an idea of it of course, so looking forward to that devlog!
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epermyakov
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« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2020, 12:11:23 AM »

Just dropped the devlog, talking in-depth about this mechanic and showing off all the details.





Would be happy to get feedback and opinions from any RTS nerds lurking here.
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2020, 04:08:04 AM »

I think the biggest challenge will be to not make microing logistics a necessity to build things in the most efficient manner. And when I say microing I mean the UI more than the actual actions I want to do.

For example, in the video I see you selecting buildings individually and changing the settings for them. It would be nice if it was possible to select multiple storage buildings at once and change the prioritization strategy for all of them, since that would reduce the number of clicks required to do the same thing and remove a lot of tedium, without making the game easier.

Similarly, even though we don't have a global wood counter, if I wish to manage my resources efficiently it would be nice if I could quickly see how much of a given resource is present in an area, instead of having to add up counts in separate storages.

Do you have a preference for using many buildings or to have a few buildings that can be upgraded? The latter would simplify things a lot.
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epermyakov
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« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2021, 06:08:58 AM »

It's been a while since my last update but rest assured - I've not disappeared. Slowed my pace during the holiday season and spent a while working on a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff. But recently I've made some good progress and put out another devlog.


This is an example of combining a mule and a peasant into a "transport cart".


This is an example of "capturing" wild bears the way you would do with sheep in Age of Empires.

Anyways, I beak down the mechanic, the game design behind it, and the code written to get it working in the devlog:




Check it out. As always, I'm hungry for feedback. Do let me know what you think. Is it cool? Does it suck? Both??
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« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2021, 11:17:40 PM »

The idea of combining mounts and riders like the mule and the peasant is very intriguing. And bear riders are just the most amazing thing ever. Building fasts units early to scout, round up a couple of bears and attack the opponent sounds like a fun strategy Wink
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« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2021, 12:54:14 AM »

Cool, I always wanted to make an RTS myself and we definitely need one. Apart from AOE IV (thank god) there isn't much coming. Actually, an RTS called Warrior Kings Battles, is one of the games that brought me to game dev. Maybe check it out, it's not very well known and quite old, but has unique and interesting mechanics, and people even play it today.
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« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2021, 11:48:01 PM »

Been a really productive last couple of weeks for me. Further improved pathfinding (pretty much at 0 stuck-age now). But together an entire OpenAL-based audio system supporting 3d sound effects. Came back and finished off a bunch of stuff (like missing icons on the minimap), added more UI.


Here's some new pathfinding debug visualizations (and, yes, that IS an "idle worker" button in the corner)


And here it is without the ff0000 and 00ff00. Looking more RTS-ey by the day I think.

Lastly, just put out another devlog. In this one I do a deep-dive into the problem of having different-sized units pathfind on a single grid and explain my solution. Hoping that some of the gamedev nerds here find it useful.



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epermyakov
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« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2021, 10:36:46 AM »

Made a brand new unit. Based on Russian mythology. First ranged unit in the game.


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JobLeonard
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« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2021, 11:11:24 AM »

 Kiss

The AT-ST from Star Wars is basically cultural appropriation Tongue
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Alain
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« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2021, 10:26:27 PM »

It's so cool you are having this in your game! I think I was introduced to Baba Yaga by the Hellboy Comics. I love how some mythical creatures are so wild that a modern art director would ask the concept artist to tone down the craziness Wink
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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2021, 06:55:23 AM »

Hey epermyakov, any reason why the camera is so flat?

It looks almost list a top-down 2D view and maybe it would be better to sacrifice a bit of field of view in exchange for more perspective and depth (IMO of course).
Is this something for development or are you thinking to stick with it in the actual game once released?

Btw, interesting blog and I like how deep your videos can be!
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epermyakov
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« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2021, 05:13:43 AM »

Hey epermyakov, any reason why the camera is so flat?

It looks almost list a top-down 2D view and maybe it would be better to sacrifice a bit of field of view in exchange for more perspective and depth (IMO of course).
Is this something for development or are you thinking to stick with it in the actual game once released?

Btw, interesting blog and I like how deep your videos can be!
Hey man. I'm pretty happy with the current FoV setting and am planning to release with the current setting. It's a stylistic choice, of course. I like the low perspective distortion and feel like it reminds of old isometric games, while still not being 100% orthographic.

Though a FoV slider in the settings might not be a bad idea to let the player to choose how they view the game...
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2021, 05:52:42 AM »

You could introduce a "screenshot mode" in single-player that pauses the game and gives you the ability to freely move the camera. Might help in creating promotional shots too Wink
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epermyakov
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« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2021, 10:34:30 AM »

You could introduce a "screenshot mode" in single-player that pauses the game and gives you the ability to freely move the camera. Might help in creating promotional shots too Wink
I have something like that which I use for debugging - basically a second FPS camera that I can fly around with (including when the game is paused).

Here is a cinematic shot - "Fatality".



P.S. The game will have a completely simulated projectile physics system where you can dodge projectiles as part of micro.
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epermyakov
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« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2021, 11:29:02 AM »

Working on yet another unit.



It's a Mongolian Orc Archer riding on a Stag.

Simply because I thought that a horse would be too boring.  Cheesy
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epermyakov
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« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2021, 01:54:28 PM »

Just dropped a new devlog - this one's about ranged combat and (yet more) pathfinding work regarding group movement. RTS pathfinding is like software - you're never "done" with it, you just stop working on it at one point.  Cheesy





The good news is that I've now checked all the major boxes regarding RTS mechanics. It's a real RTS! From here on, I'm focusing on polish + content creation.
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« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2021, 03:47:04 AM »

The graphics look good, you can clearly see what everything is on the screen. The true question: is there a monk who says wololo?
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