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[threesided]

But then it can't be called Shadow of the Colossus. It'd be called Shade of the Giant... Naked Man.

In the shadow of the scrotum.


I vote for both demakes and GNM.It would be a nice little distraction from the depressing world of university.

[Melly]

College would be a much happier place if people went to study naked. Really, I got some hot classmates. o.o

[Ivan]

Not in a computer science school!!

Backne!

[Melly]

My university has the highest rate of attractive women of my city. Really, people researched this.

Also, I vote for "Must feature porn music" to be amongst the rules of the compo.

[Wilson Saunders]

I have had this idea floating around in my head for a while now and I think TIG Source is as good a place as any to try and make it happen:

I call it sprite hack and it is a two stage competition.

The first stage lasts a week or two where everybody and their mother generate sprites along a chosen general theme (ie High Fantasy, Sci Fi, 1930’s Detective, World War 2, Steam Punk, Victorian Colonial, ect …). At the end of the first stage all the sprites are made available to all competitors.

The second stage is pure programming. The contestants are only allowed to use the sprites generated in the first 1/2 of the competition. They can of course modify the sprites programmatically by stretching, rotating, or using draw primitives on top of them. However they can not use any art files that are not publicly available.

After the Competition is over there should probably be voting on who made the best game and who drew the best /most useful sprites. Perhaps we should keep the sprite publicly available incase any one wants to use them as place holders in a game they are developing.

[Derek]

I have had this idea floating around in my head for a while now and I think TIG Source is as good a place as any to try and make it happen:

I call it sprite hack and it is a two stage competition.

The first stage lasts a week or two where everybody and their mother generate sprites along a chosen general theme (ie High Fantasy, Sci Fi, 1930’s Detective, World War 2, Steam Punk, Victorian Colonial, ect …). At the end of the first stage all the sprites are made available to all competitors.

The second stage is pure programming. The contestants are only allowed to use the sprites generated in the first 1/2 of the competition. They can of course modify the sprites programmatically by stretching, rotating, or using draw primitives on top of them. However they can not use any art files that are not publicly available.

After the Competition is over there should probably be voting on who made the best game and who drew the best /most useful sprites. Perhaps we should keep the sprite publicly available incase any one wants to use them as place holders in a game they are developing.

THAT is a rad idea, hamster.

[Golds]

I agree!  That is a fantastic contest idea!  Let's do it!

[Inane]

Ooo! Ooo! SIDESCROLLER STEAM PUNK

[Radnom]

I think that would work well if you could only make graphics OR make a game, so that no-one can use their own graphics :D

[Wilson Saunders]

I think that would work well if you could only make graphics OR make a game, so that no-one can use their own graphics :D

Well some people will want special graphics for a paticular game concept and if no body else makes it for them they should be able to do it them selves.

What I am looking forward to is creative miss use of somebody else's art. Perhaps the heros from every other game comming together in a giant RTS, or composing a level out of dead body sprites.

I just hope people remember to do the mundain sprites like ground tiles and background objects.

[Seth]

I just hope people remember to do the mundain sprites like ground tiles and background objects.

Yeah, that's potentially the biggest problem I think.

Maybe there should be categories of items, and you have to do X amount from each list in order to be able to compete in the game making.  But then you are excluding a lot of people who aren't great at art (while at the same time making sure everyone isn't sitting on their thumbs thinking "ah, everyone else will do stuff so I don't have to").

Maybe to compete in the art section you have to do the categories thing, but anyone can just submit whatever they feel like.

Or maybe just say "hey! don't forget the mundane stuff!" at the beginning  :D

But I like the idea and hope we do it.  I'd go in for the art section.

Would there be a prescribed style?  Like, "sidescroller" "average character size 32x32" ect

[Derek]

Personally, I think some people will want to do the mundane stuff!  I know I would!

I think for art it'd be best to leave it as open as possible in terms of theme and genre.  I'll lay out some hints, though.  There will definitely be a rule against using artwork not made specifically for the competition (don't want people dumping their portfolios on there).

I'm going to ask ptoing if he could maybe make an announcement about it on Pixelation, too.

But yeah, I don't like sitting on good ideas too long, so expect an announcement early next week barring any serious protest.  Let's just do it!

Here are some dates off the top of my head:

Art: Dec 3th - Dec 24th (21 days)

Programming: January 1st - January 31st (31 days)

So then we have a break of 7 days after the art portion of the competition to ooh and ahh at the art and the programmers can think about what they want to do. (Plus, I imagine a good number of people are going to want to enjoy Christmas with their loved ones, the wankers. )

I would like to make a couple of changes to hamster's rules, however:

1. I don't think a theme for the art is necessary.  I think it'd be better if it was just a big free-for-all.  Also, it will give the programmers more chances to creatively "misuse" the artwork.

Also, deciding on a theme will be a contentious point, I feel, with everyone wanting to do something different.  Why not just let them do it!

2. I'd like the art portion of the compo to include music, since we have a lot of talented musicians on the board (and wannabe-musicians who could use a chance to learn!).  Sound effects, I think, you can just get from anywhere you wish.

Thoughts?

[Wilson Saunders]

Well my thoughts on the contest proposal are as follows:

I would like an artistic theme that way the sprites have a higher probability of looking like they belong together. It will also lessen the odds artists will use this as a portfolio dump (not that I am complaining if they do).  I think the contention could be lessened if people were allowed to submit ideas then vote on them.

I know B-Games was very short on rules and that worked out well. However the rules can be used to inspire creativity as much as it can be used to limit it. I have participated in 3 speedhacks (http://www.speedhack.allegro.cc/) so far, and enjoy the creative interpretation of vague rules as much as the actual programming. I think it also adds to the community spirit where every one is working towards a similar goal but from completely different angles.

On the other hand ridged game genera (platform, RTS, RPG, SHUMP, Fighting game, ect…) rules would be a very bad idea. Having 20 people make a platform jumper with an identical sprite set would result in 20 identical looking games. I am not against more open ended genera rules like survival, antihero, world domination, or princess saving. Then again it could be my love for speedhacks talking. Once again I suggest entrant idea submissions and voting.

Regarding music and sound effects, I am all for including that in the art side of the competition. If there are enough composers and SFX people here to generate a decent selection I would be happy to limit my self to their creations.

As for the time frame proposed; December is going to be very busy with Ludum Dare (www.ludumdare.com) and hopefully a Christmass Hack (http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/551991). Granted the real programming will happen in January but I suspect I will be very burnt out by then.

One final thought, how are we going to do file types? Personally I like working with “magic pink” .bmp files for my sprites. But I know most artists like working with proper alpha layering of .png files. Should the contest require submissions come in both formats? Alternately the contest could allow the end programmer to change the file type as long as the image remains more or less unchanged.

[Seth]

I think we should go with a theme, otherwise people may be forced to mix dwarves with gangsters and have to come up with lame time traveling storylines.  I also think limitations help creativity, and a theme would probably force me to work in a genre/style I generally don't. 

What I meant about "sidescroller" limitation is not gameplay specific, but art presentation.  I guess it would be fine for people to submit side view sprites and tiles along with top-down stuff.  But yeah that is a matter of limiting game genre and I think that's bad.  It's just a matter of how coherent we want everything to look I guess.

[Wilson Saunders]

I agree with Seth on the consistent angle idea, but I think which angle used should be a matter for community vote. As far as I can tell our options are: Side view, Isometric, or Top down.

[Derek]

Isometric-only seems like it would severely limit entries on both the art and programming sides. It would just make things difficult for everyone involved.  Iso-only is out, as far as I'm concerned.

And yeah, I'm still dubious about the theme thing, unless someone comes up with a really good one.  What will be good for the programmers is having a wide variety of graphics.  That is, you want artists coming in and just drawing any ol' little doodad they feel like.  A fun little creature, a brick, a shiny abstract thing, a cloud, a tree... on top of the robots, dwarves, gangsters.  I think if you set everyone off in one direction to start, they're going to be inclined to draw the same types of things (and not enough of the little stuff that are the bread and butter of a game).

Do you think that if the theme is, say, "steampunk," that people are going to draw any generic objects that can be interpreted and used in a million different ways?!  No, they're probably going to draw one frame of animation for some uber-awesome giant steampunk machine monster!  Really great and fun art-wise, but kinda boring game-wise.

It feels like the right thing to do would be to let the artists draw what they wish.  I'm sure themes will naturally pop up over a few weeks of drawing, anyway, as the artists riff off each other.  Isn't that so much more interesting?

But, in the end, I'm actually totally okay with doing a theme if that's what everyone wants to do.  It's just my opinion.

[Wilson Saunders]

The other question is do you want to inflict a theme on us programmers? Some thing nice an generic like save a member of royalty (prince/princess). Also if you wanted to get a feel for what other's want you could add "no theme/restriction" as a voting option for the contest. Basicaly add "no rules" to the possible set of rules the contestants might encounter.

[Melly]

I think it would be interesting to have the artist be free to do whatever they wish, then when the programmer's turn came, a random fairly generic theme would be given. The challenge would be how to use the crazy pastiche of graphics given in that theme, even if most of the graphics don't USUALLy fit with it.

I think that would be much more interesting. If we leave it free for the coders, they'd probably have a tendency of grabing the few coolest sets of graphics and doing similar games with them that fit how they look.

[Jimbob]

How about instead of a theme, we choose a (short) piece of writing (taken from an IF game maybe?) that sets a scene with maybe a character name or two. The artists can interpret this however they like, but at least the results will be in line with telling a specific story resulting from that scene. Plus this doesn't limit what kind of game can be made either, and could even result in some people extending it into their own IF...

The problem is finding a suitable piece of writing...

[Seth]

maybe we should make the theme Giant Naked Men