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[barta]

Hello everyone,

Ok so I have coded the basic gameplay for a realistic space game (piloting ships in a 1:1 scale space environment)
but can't come up with a basic story plot that satisfies me.

i was looking for a very simple plot that can provide an 'excuse' for a sandbox-style exploration and survival game set in space, where you can reach and interact/take possession/search for resources on/of/with several space ships, modules and bases orbiting or landed on various celestial bodies.

any ideas?

[Thaumaturge]

Do you have any specific experience or feel that you want the player to have? For example, do you want the player to feel heroic, or piratical, or scientific, etc? And are these ships, bases, etc. that the player explores at all occupied--and if so, what becomes of the occupants when the player visits?

Oh, and finally, what sort of scale are we talking about, in both space and time? Does this take place within a galaxy? A solar system? Around a single planet? And what sort of travel-times are involved (both in-universe and in gameplay)?

[Lance of Longinus]

You should try to binge watch sci-fi movies and read a bunch of sci-fi short stories.
While doing this, take notes on the things you liked. Take notes on missed opportunities and wasted potential (was there a point where you expected some interesting things to happen, only to be disappointed by not getting to see them?). Try to write some simple fan-fiction for some of the movies or stories you liked the most as a way to explore story ideas.

You fundamentally have to find out yourself what story you want to have. Even in the case of a very simple plot.

[barta]

Thanks for the help.

To clarify:

Do you have any specific experience or feel that you want the player to have? For example, do you want the player to feel heroic, or piratical, or scientific, etc? And are these ships, bases, etc. that the player explores at all occupied--and if so, what becomes of the occupants when the player visits?

i wasn't going to model/animate/code any npc. it's not exactly my forte. so i prefer if the player is the only character of the story. although some HAL9000-style friend or foe would fit in (as there'd be nothing to model or animate).

but basically yes, any plot with a lone character doing things in space would do.
i was thinking of having a first person mode, where you can explore the interior of ships (or maybe even the surface of planets), and a 'driving mode' where you can drive ships around in third person view.

what sort of scale are we talking about, in both space and time?

it's a space simulation, everything is 1:1. i've already coded the basic things, and everything looks and plays promisingly. the coordinate system, using doubles can support any setting from the size of an asteroid to that of a small planet with its moons.

And what sort of travel-times are involved (both in-universe and in gameplay)?

the setting is going to be that of a small planet with its moons, so travel-times from one side of the map to the other would be measured in 2-5 days. the player would be able at any point to accelerate the passage of time, of course.

You fundamentally have to find out yourself what story you want to have. Even in the case of a very simple plot.

simple plot: that's basically the idea. but i can't think of anything that isn't incredibly overdone, boring, or implausible.
i feel like sci fi movies have already exhausted all the possibilities, and so i can now only resign to copy one of them and hope nobody notices
but i'm not losing hope yet!

[Lance of Longinus]

i wasn't going to model/animate/code any npc. it's not exactly my forte. so i prefer if the player is the only character of the story. although some HAL9000-style friend or foe would fit in (as there'd be nothing to model or animate).

but basically yes, any plot with a lone character doing things in space would do.

Well, this narrows things down. How about a mining operation happening on either that planet, its moons, or on all of them and the player being the only human stationed there to watch over it, repair things etc. ? Could be a story about loneliness, the main character reflecting on existential questions and so on. You could also potentially start with some accident happening to all other humans that only the player character survives and now he wants to understand why that happened. Maybe even the player character was the one responsible for their death, accidentally, or deliberately. If the only thing you find from the other characters are personal objects and logbook entries, you still don't need to model any characters.

You could take some inspiration from the movie Moon or Silent Running, though to add fresh stuff I'd recommend looking at current news about space travel, from Nasa, Esa etc.

https://www.nasa.gov/

https://www.esa.int/

Also maybe watch generally a bunch of different movies focusing on one character to look what kind of things can be done withing those limitations
https://www.ranker.com/list/movies-that-have-one-actor/ranker-film

[barta]

Also maybe watch generally a bunch of different movies focusing on one character to look what kind of things can be done withing those limitations https://www.ranker.com/list/movies-that-have-one-actor/ranker-film

well thanks this might come in handy 

another thing though: do you think the game would have potential if i happen to think of a decent plot?

it's going to basically be a walking simulator with spaceships, a counterintuitive way of moving around that the player would have to familiarize with (inertia and gravity), and some danger of crashing into things. perhaps some survival elements with fuel and oxygen.

could there be any other game mechanic to spice things up a bit?

[michaelplzno]

First thing, my boilerplate reply to "will it have potential" is that its all in the execution. If you do a good job of making it interesting then it will be good.

Also, in terms of copying stories: not much art that is created now a days is original, and even less is actually good. You probably don't want to hear this but using a story that has been explored a bit might be a helpful way to get started on this epic scavenger hunt.

In terms of traveling great distances: you tend to get into a bit of "Dessert Bus Syndrome" which is a game about driving a bus in real time across the country and if you stop steering correctly it crashes. I once made a game where you could drive an infinite track and I have noticed some players got a bit bored of driving for such big stretches. That's the thing you should be focusing on, unless the game has a little tv screen that pops up narrative every few minutes to keep the player interested while they are traveling for 2 days across a planet. And if you can speed up time, then what is the point of using a real scale when you can just zoom to wherever you want?

[barta]

In terms of traveling great distances: you tend to get into a bit of "Dessert Bus Syndrome" which is a game about driving a bus in real time across the country and if you stop steering correctly it crashes.

fair point, but i've got this already covered with a nice 'time scale' feature, with which you can have 1 hour pass in 5 seconds.
and it doesn't feel boring either, as you have to chase your target by constantly matching your relative velocity while it drifts due to gravity.

And if you can speed up time, then what is the point of using a real scale when you can just zoom to wherever you want?

real scale so you can have a proper difference in size between your vessel, and the celestial bodies you're orbiting around.
also, you see how much you have to speed up time to cover such enormous distances, and so it feels truly astronomical.

Also, in terms of copying stories: not much art that is created now a days is original, and even less is actually good. You probably don't want to hear this but using a story that has been explored a bit might be a helpful way to get started on this epic scavenger hunt.

yes, you're right. probably when i get tired of thinking about it i'm going to settle for some of the most common tropes.
the problem i have is that i'm kind of lazy and i need some strong motivation to make me work hard  while recycicling a story doesn't feel very motivating.

[Lance of Longinus]

In terms of traveling great distances: you tend to get into a bit of "Dessert Bus Syndrome" which is a game about driving a bus in real time across the country and if you stop steering correctly it crashes. I once made a game where you could drive an infinite track and I have noticed some players got a bit bored of driving for such big stretches. That's the thing you should be focusing on, unless the game has a little tv screen that pops up narrative every few minutes to keep the player interested while they are traveling for 2 days across a planet. And if you can speed up time, then what is the point of using a real scale when you can just zoom to wherever you want?

fair point, but i've got this already covered with a nice 'time scale' feature, with which you can have 1 hour pass in 5 seconds.
and it doesn't feel boring either, as you have to chase your target by constantly matching your relative velocity while it drifts due to gravity.

real scale so you can have a proper difference in size between your vessel, and the celestial bodies you're orbiting around.
also, you see how much you have to speed up time to cover such enormous distances, and so it feels truly astronomical.

In my opinion it could also end up being relaxing. I've personally had a time when I enjoyed just driving non-stop countless loops in practice mode in F-Zero GX. Similarly I liked sailing from island to island in The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. Though that's definitely not something for everyone and it would have to be enjoyable. If flying from planet to planet ends up annoying, this would kill the game.

could there be any other game mechanic to spice things up a bit?

When it comes to ressource; Definitely Food if you want to go in a somewhat realistic direction. Possibly a sanity meter (spending large amounts of time without contact with other humans destroys you https://www.sciencealert.com/isolation-has-profound-effects-on-the-human-body-and-brain-here-s-what-happens).

Another thing that could make sense would be some repair and maintenance minigames.

[michaelplzno]

The long stretches of driving in my procedural driving game were "relaxing" and younger kids really enjoyed driving for a long time, but at a certain age, the kids seemed to want to fight stuff and race and so on like mario kart more than just driving a long stretch. So I suppose if you are making something that involves long stretches with or without time skipping you should just know that only a certain crowd will enjoy that.

In terms of motivation despite being somewhat derivative: This is one you will have to find on your own, I always say there are a million paths to a million destinations in games, I've done some original stuff and gotten confused looks from people. When I submitted Don't Shoot Yourself to the IGF they told me that "you can't make something about gaming levels using tricks and strategy" which I guess is just an example of being borne under the wrong star. But when you do make some original stuff you can see that its not really such a holy grail. Another example, I make a lot of very original music for my soundcloud, I don't think people will really have a broad appeal for that music,  but I tried to have fun making it and enjoy the process of creating something. Which I still have some trouble with. Its easy to get lost in the pull of trying to get a big reaction or good reviews or sales and the trick is to turn out a lot of work and see what is good and bad, master the craft of making art before you become a true Artist.





And here is a VERY ORIGINAL song that I did, actually I feel it sort of riffs on the star wars theme a bit: https://soundcloud.com/michaelplzno/music-13

Also: doing an original story can be quite stressful, which again, its your path, but you have to get invested in a lot of things that are creative and there is very little signs that things will pan out, so again it becomes very difficult to stay motivated if it isn't something you really are driving yourself internally. I'm not sure if making an original story will help you stay motivated more than anything else, its mostly just a LOT of work which if you are having trouble staying with it adding more work might not be the best tactic?

[Thaumaturge]

Regarding the story, perhaps it would be worth trying the writing exercise of asking yourself questions about the setting and protagonist; finding answers might help you to find a story. Things like the following:

• Why are there no other people around?
• If there are no other people around, why is the protagonist present?
• What is the relationship between this solar system and its parent civilisation?
  
  • Additional thought: what is that parent civilisation?
• How did this solar system come to be in use?
• What does the protagonist want? What are their goals here?
• What prevents the protagonist from realising those goals?

And so on.

Regarding the long, quiet stretches, I think that those could work. I recall a game called Sylvio 2 that featured long, eerie boat passages between locations, and those could be somewhat atmospheric at times--if also boring at others--I think.

If you want to spice things up a bit, perhaps you could have monologues or conversations--present, remembered, with person, with AI, with memory, or whatever--come up during travel. Tidbits that serve to further one or more of story, characterisation, or worldbuilding.

Of course, if you're not finding inspiration for the story, then perhaps it might be worth asking: does this specific game require more than an excuse plot? If so, then fair enough, keep at it! If not, then perhaps it might be worth considering dropping the element of significant story development.

As to being derivative, I believe that I've seen this said on a writing sub-form elsewhere: it's the execution that matters. And that, I think, applies to originality: a familiar plot can become fresh and interesting if executed in a sufficiently interesting manner.

[barta]

everyone thanks for the advice
i appreciate it.

Regarding the long, quiet stretches, I think that those could work. I recall a game called Sylvio 2 that featured long, eerie boat passages between locations, and those could be somewhat atmospheric at times--if also boring at others--I think.

well, i already have written this code and playtested it abundantly.
accelerating your ship to reach your desired velocity could take a while (30 seconds to 1 minute)
but then by stretching time you could see a dot of light turn into a huge, rotating asteroid in a matter of seconds (and with everything rotating around you, it can get almost frenetical).

i may have a boredom problem during acceleration... but i think it would just make the following journey more exciting.

Of course, if you're not finding inspiration for the story, then perhaps it might be worth asking: does this specific game require more than an excuse plot? If so, then fair enough, keep at it! If not, then perhaps it might be worth considering dropping the element of significant story development.

yes i think the game would work with just a basic plot... i was not going to make this into a narrative game but mostly an exploration game with an excuse plot to justify it all.

so it is an excuse plot the one i'm looking for.
...but everything i could think of felt like it would end up ruining the experience rather than justifying it.

[Thaumaturge]

Well, if an excuse plot is required, let me offer two suggestions:

First, what about an archaeological expedition? The protagonist is a lone researcher visiting long-abandoned outposts, looking for artefacts from and clues to the life that once was lived there.

And second, perhaps they're a nomad of some sort--perhaps as a chosen or encultured lifestyle; or because they're running from something; or because they're searching for something. The system in question may simply be one stop on a long, long road; a place where they sojourn for a bit to find resources and to explore out of curiosity, before moving on to the next interstellar stretch.

[barta]

The system in question may simply be one stop on a long, long road; a place where they sojourn for a bit to find resources and to explore out of curiosity, before moving on to the next interstellar stretch.

First, what about an archaeological expedition? The protagonist is a lone researcher visiting long-abandoned outposts, looking for artefacts from and clues to the life that once was lived there.

these ideas are cool for the location and why you're there.
the archeological expedition would allow me to put some strange alien artifacts around which would definitely spice up the game  

but in both cases, i would still need an accident of some sort...

the gameplay is about reaching and exploring abandoned spaceships (or modules of a bigger spaceship). and these need to be human-made because the player would have to be able to dock the two spaceships together and gather fuel/oxygen from them.

furthemore, a lone space mission doesn't sound realistic.
lone missions to space aren't a thing since the very first flights in the early 1960s.
...but the player character could find himself alone during a mission.

any cool ideas for a space accident?
it has to be 'diffuse', in that various different spaceships/modules are involved over a large volume of space.
and it preferably, it has to have some connection with the location and goal of the space mission

for example... the alien artifacts emit strange waves that make people go crazy? but why not the player?
or perhaps... the reason the interstellar mission stopped in its journey is because the accident happened? but what is the nature of this accident and how did the player survive?

something like these.

[Thaumaturge]

but in both cases, i would still need an accident of some sort...

Why so?

If you want a reason for all those ships and stations, etc., to be present and abandoned, then they might have simply been left behind. Their parent culture could have moved on, or pulled back, or simply found them obsolete and so abandoned them. It needn't be the result of a single event, or have happened all at once.

the gameplay is about reaching and exploring abandoned spaceships (or modules of a bigger spaceship). and these need to be human-made because the player would have to be able to dock the two spaceships together and gather fuel/oxygen from them.

Fair enough

furthemore, a lone space mission doesn't sound realistic.
lone missions to space aren't a thing since the very first flights in the early 1960s.

That may be true now, but may also be very different by the time of your game. Perhaps by that point it's feasible for people to travel alone in the reaches of space just as people travel alone around the planet today.

Bear in mind, for one, that the trip needn't be a "mission" in the sense of something being run by some governing body; it might be a travel that an individual is undertaking, or a research expedition, or part of a semi-isolationist nomadic culture.

for example... the alien artifacts emit strange waves that make people go crazy? but why not the player?
or perhaps... the reason the interstellar mission stopped in its journey is because the accident happened? but what is the nature of this accident and how did the player survive?

I could see something like these working, should you want an accident, indeed.