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TIGSource ForumsCommunityJams & EventsCompetitionsOld CompetitionsAdult/Educational CompoEdmund [NSFW & FINISHED]
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Author Topic: Edmund [NSFW & FINISHED]  (Read 157966 times)
Farmergnome
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« Reply #280 on: September 01, 2009, 04:01:06 PM »

platformer-elements, shooting and evading enemies, chasing cars... that kind of stuff. As I already said and as most of you already know this can be an awkward and not always appropriate approach but remember games like... Super Metroid. Even though some scenes (including the ending) have a massive emotional impact on the player and there is a very strong atmosphere all around the thing that players actually do 90% of the time is chasing through mazes, shooting and evading enemies and jumping on platforms. Other examples are Half-Life or... Portal! Imagine how portal might have felt without all the... well... plain puzzle solving and platforming.

Having tried initially to add allot of "Way A" into the game, it didn't really work from the standpoint of making a game a few minutes long and becomes convoluted with allot of extra junk that just feels tacked on, again this lends itself better to bigger games, and all your example reference games reflect this.  For a game that is 5 minutes long, there is little point "padding it out", the players attention should last 5 minutes without needing:

platformer-elements, shooting and evading enemies, chasing cars... that kind of stuff.

"Way b" is also somewhat out of the limits of what a person can do with a competition entry, I think there's room to expand here beyond the competition but I probably won't since the game conveys the message pretty well judging from the discussion, ive got better things to do basically.

How this might've been applied on Edmund: What about: The basic scene would just have been the one with the Taxi, the Driver, the Rapist, the Bus Stop, the Woman, the Gun, the Appartment. And once the player took his choices and "constructed" a basic plot the game could present a number of slides (or maybe even animations) of how different parts of the world could've reacted to what happened: e.g.: the victim's mother (being a widow, having lost her only child, becoming a lonely, old woman etc.), the newspapers (bringing an article about what happened with some true facts, some missing things, some overexaggerated stuff etc.; an ad fitting to what happened? (e.g. for COCOP in case the woman wasn't killed but raped, pepper spray in case the woman died))
This would of course require a lot of additional work... but no additional AI or platforming-mechanics/level design.

Yea that basically sums up the sort of shit I would add to it, but again, the work is a bit much for a competition game, had to trim a few endings due to time also, if it was AI/platforming-mechanics/level design or straight art makes no difference when im doing it all either way.  I don't want to come across as blunt, but I think its kind of weak that all your criticisms boil down to  "Add more".

Sometimes less is more.  Though I do think some more minor details would have been great, I was squeezing minor shit in right upto the deadline, such as reflections in the interior windows etc, but works okay as is.

You leave some traces on the ground. (blood e.g.) In the second scene you have to play the taxi-driver and walk through the same complex maze.

"A man who was previously in the vietnam war and raped the wife of a killed soldier there took the Taxi to stalk a woman. Then he beat her. Then he made her have sexual intercourse with him. Then the taxi driver shot him."

spoiler :

You know they are the same person right?  Edmund and Michael, same person, just so we are on the same page, I don't know if I could make it more obvious, there is a vertical fuckton of hints in there already.

I think anyone who questions what a game should be, should be kicked multiple times in the shins by someone wearing steel toed boots.

Quote
video game  –noun

1.  any of various games played using a microcomputer with a keyboard and often joysticks to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen.


Basicly yea.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 05:38:18 PM by Farmergnome » Logged

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« Reply #281 on: September 03, 2009, 05:44:07 PM »

tripple mines suck  Hand Joystick Hand Joystick Hand Joystick. I need saves, check points or at least cheats. don't want to miss this game because of those fucking mines and edmund being a bad jumper.
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #282 on: September 03, 2009, 07:20:20 PM »

It's really not that hard, because not only are the mines easy to spot once you already seen them they also have a pattern. They are in between the things that resemble bamboo tree trunks. Just jump over that gap. I died a few times too but I never thought I needed a save point. Also, the more you get frustrated with a game the more you will fail. Learned that from playing Mega Man as a kid.
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Rumrusher
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« Reply #283 on: September 03, 2009, 09:58:56 PM »

It's really not that hard, because not only are the mines easy to spot once you already seen them they also have a pattern. They are in between the things that resemble bamboo tree trunks. Just jump over that gap. I died a few times too but I never thought I needed a save point. Also, the more you get frustrated with a game the more you will fail. Learned that from playing Mega Man as a kid.
EDman
YOU GOT TELE-grope! Giggle
or Meda Mund a enhanced super mutant who has to fight then and being to submission the 6 rogue robot Dominatrices who follow the evil DR.Emily.

still wish gnome left "the over the wall" glitch in so that my rewrite doesn't make sense. Beg
still it's fun mine bouncing so death did you reach or pass 6 flops in the nam level?

edit: also I would soo play it if it has michael as dr.light or protoman.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 10:11:45 PM by Rumrusher » Logged
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« Reply #284 on: September 04, 2009, 01:50:37 AM »

It's really not that hard, because not only are the mines easy to spot once you already seen them they also have a pattern. They are in between the things that resemble bamboo tree trunks. Just jump over that gap. I died a few times too but I never thought I needed a save point. Also, the more you get frustrated with a game the more you will fail. Learned that from playing Mega Man as a kid.
I have no problem at all spotting the mines, but chances I die on the first tripple are at least 65%, same for the 2nd and 3rd (where the first corpses lie when you shortcut through the houses before).
Chances that I make it past the 3rd tripple are therefore 4.3% (been there once and failed, guess there are even more)
And sorry, I don't have a lot of megaman experience either... (and quit cavestory when the hard last levels begun (when you are locked inside a house and have to go downwards))
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #285 on: September 04, 2009, 02:49:12 PM »

Practice on a relatively similar safe area. More than likely he's finished with this game, I don't see him having any reason to go back and add checkpoints or save point. Besides, the whole game is very short and you're only placed far back just a tad bit, it isn't that much of a drag to do it again.
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battlerager
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« Reply #286 on: September 07, 2009, 04:04:11 AM »

I tried the vietnam part like 50 times until I beat it  Epileptic
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Rumrusher
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« Reply #287 on: September 07, 2009, 04:25:49 AM »

makes yah forget about the rape doesn't it.
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cougarten
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« Reply #288 on: September 10, 2009, 03:36:22 AM »

okey, I got it.
The Problem was my keyboard, it refused to send key-down or somthing, imagine playing it without holfing the jump button but just tipping it...
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Rumrusher
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« Reply #289 on: September 10, 2009, 03:53:11 AM »

you be sent in a blood fill rage where the only thing that would quench it would be that the last scene in nam would had end in bloody mauling of the shooter and a back hand so strong you send her flying?
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nihilocrat
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« Reply #290 on: September 10, 2009, 04:43:00 PM »

There is no gameplay whatsoever and there are merely two(?) not really that interesting choises to take. (I hope I didn't miss too much.)

Did you try pressing 'X' while standing in front of her?  Well, hello there!

I guess that counts as a choice...

* rape sequence
 i think there'd be some positives to making the actual rape gameplay more interactive, rather than an automated thing. example: a bar that decreases that if you don't "thrust" enough, will 'kill' you. that would link the player in a bit more to the actual act and make it far more disturbing.
 the sounds could then be linked to the actual input - freaky.

Not sure if the 'gameplay' I'm mentioning above was added before or after your comment. I think the extra choice makes the experience a little more disturbing, even though the choice doesn't impact endings at all.

<spoiler>
I could have sworn that I heard a "chopper" sound effect right before you regain control after meeting Emily, but I can't seem to reproduce it.

I also thought it was kind of amusing that you can smack Emily around and let her crawl all the way back to the taxi, rape her a little, and then get in the taxi like nothing happened.

</spoiler>

Quote from: farmergnome
And every time I ask this but I don't think Ive got a sufficient answer to it yet, what is wrong with games breaking the mold of it HAS to have fun mechanics?  Why can't we swap out mechanics with atmosphere?  Or emotion?  As a player, I'm kind of turned off how most games try so hard to please you with jump on their heads and collect those coins type mechanics, its kinda getting old to me.

I understand to most people, fun mechanics are the reason they play games, but I think there is room for more than that, and it would be pretty narrow minded to say otherwise.

I think if you just replaced "fun" with "pretty" you'd notice the same question is constantly asked in traditional art. Most people only appreciate art when it's just pretty in some way, while others might think there's some value to stuff that isn't pretty at all but provides a message or experience that's valuable. You might think it's obvious that there's more to traditional art than just being pretty, but go around and show average people some art and they'll probably just say "that's pretty/ugly!", or more likely, "my 5 year old could do this, why should I appreciate it?"

I prefer my games to be fun, but I also like "art" games that aren't really trying to be fun at all. Honestly, I prefer that they are short and to the point, I haven't really played an "art" game longer than 5 minutes (Passage) and I feel that's enough time to spend with them. I think it's cool that people do break the mold, but I can understand why people don't like it. Games are an interactive medium, and I think it's a disservice to the medium if they aren't very interactive, or the interactions are very trite. Most JRPGs could probably be better enjoyed as just movies or anime series or whatever rather than games because the interactivity is so low. This is why I think "art" games are best when they keep themselves to a small set of interactions that are presented in a way that's going to invoke emotion through the agency of the player rather than quality of the narrative.

If I'm sounding too nebulous, yes, I think Edmund is a cool game, I enjoy it even though it's not fun.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 05:19:56 PM by nihilocrat » Logged

Zeke M.
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« Reply #291 on: September 10, 2009, 04:56:11 PM »

Found this on the Adult/Educompo entry on front page.

Quote
Thanks said about 11 hours later:
Edmund! Finally a game with an interesting subject! I would’ve made a game like this long ago if I knew how to program. Been playing this over and over all day :3

Take that bitch! Priceless! If only you could do that in real life, LOL! Evil

Is it trolling?  Is it serious?  Does it matter?
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Anthony Flack
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« Reply #292 on: September 10, 2009, 06:31:40 PM »

It is so trolling.
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« Reply #293 on: September 11, 2009, 02:29:52 PM »

Just to slip into this little shitstorm (and inevitably make things worse), I'd like to thank you, Paul, for creating such an incredible game.
The style was absolutely great, the gameplay all it needed to be, and everything was very fitting, from the mood, characters, setting, and even to the length of the game.
I loved the choices afforded to the player, giving us that degree of control over the nature of each character, and I really enjoyed how that affected the struggle between what I guess was "bad" and "good", Eddie and Mike respectively.
I can't put words in your mouth so I'm not going to imagine I know exactly what you were trying to convey, but I for one found it very moving and thought-provoking.

That's all, really. Thought you'd appreciate another nice comment among some that seem a little less so. You said you've gone to get drunk on another page, so have a great one dude, you've earned it.
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« Reply #294 on: September 11, 2009, 07:54:52 PM »

i'm disappointed.

i didn't think this was deep or interesting. yes i felt somewhat disgusted while playing as a rapist character, but who wouldn't? that's nothing new. rape is disgusting. perhaps if the gameplay consisted of more than a generic platformer and "press x to rape" i might have felt a bit more involved with the characters.

the war part might as well have not even been a game: jump over land mines and get rewarded with a cutscene in which you rape someone. you don't even get the choice to rape her or not. apparently ed is just a guy who loves rape and that's about it. there is no connection between edmund's gameplay and content.

what makes that bad is that there is no content. the presentation is slick but that's about all this has going for it. please tell me what i was supposed to get out of this other than thinking "that was gross" at the end. the game explores absolutely nothing about rape. people have commented that you "tackled the subject" of rape, but you didn't. you ignored it. rape is essentially treated as a mcguffin.

i would have had a higher opinion of the choices you can make if the choice to not rape didn't just automatically lead to the game ending. forcing the player to do something they don't morally agree with in order to progress the game is something i see occasionally in indie games (wish i could remember which ones) but is usually done better. this technique does not make the game deep. it makes it a movie. and if this was a movie it'd be a crappy one.

if it's meant to be all about atmosphere well ok. like i said the audio and visuals are stylish. but it also has nothing to do with the subject matter. the stylistic choice of running through dark empty streets for a long time could be cool and meaningful, except that it isn't. it actually gets a little boring. the world of rape is dark and dreary and noirish. so what?

if i sound like i'm mad, it's not because i'm offended at the subject matter. i'm a mature adult who can handle mature themes. i'm annoyed that such a lazy game is getting such accolades. it's like the creator just assumed that if a story involved rape then that meant the story was meaningful. the fight club/jacobs ladder "twist" was stupid as well.

for two decent games that do a much, much better job of exploring the subject of rape, check these out:

the baron by victor gijsbers (text adventure, you will need an interpreter like gargoyle)
http://www.wurb.com/if/game/2889

striptease by stephen "increpare" lavelle
http://www.increpare.com/page/2/
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 08:16:30 PM by pami » Logged
Rumrusher
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« Reply #295 on: September 11, 2009, 08:51:52 PM »

i'm disappointed.

-snip-

 the fight club/jacobs ladder "twist" was stupid as well.


for two decent games that do a much, much better job of exploring the subject of rape, check these out:

the baron by victor gijsbers (text adventure, you will need an interpreter like gargoyle)
http://www.wurb.com/if/game/2889

striptease by stephen "increpare" lavelle
http://www.increpare.com/page/2/
I take it from the snip you didn't read (most of/ all/ gnomes posts/middle) the thread and because he said it was based mostly on the rapist and not the rape it self since the act of rape so pretty much raping others would be as easy for edmund as hitting a button unlike mike raping which leads him to go through a empty city and a should be reachable wall to come to a decision.
not to say one opinion is wrong but it nice to try to see what every one else had said.
oh and you can edit what they say in the script folder just as a reminder seeing.
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Farmergnome
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« Reply #296 on: September 11, 2009, 08:52:33 PM »

i'm disappointed.

i didn't think this was deep or interesting.

Sorry you didn't like, thanks for trying it out.

what makes that bad is that there is no content. the presentation is slick but that's about all this has going for it. please tell me what i was supposed to get out of this other than thinking "that was gross" at the end. the game explores absolutely nothing about rape. people have commented that you "tackled the subject" of rape, but you didn't. you ignored it. rape is essentially treated as a mcguffin.

Content was mostly a time issue, hopefully some people got more than "that was gross" out of the game.  And the game explores nothing about rape, because its not about rape, the main character is a rapist, thats the tie, the meat of it is (hopefully) within michael/edmund's struggle to do the acts or not, not the act itself, or exploring it. 

This is realy starting to sound like broken record now, please read the thread first, this has all been said before.

i would have had a higher opinion of the choices you can make if the choice to not rape didn't just automatically lead to the game ending.

How much closure do you need?  If you were a rapist, and you resisted raping someone in the street, do you think there would be a happy theme song playing?  Do you think you would have closure?

if it's meant to be all about atmosphere well ok. like i said the audio and visuals are stylish. but it also has nothing to do with the subject matter. the stylistic choice of running through dark empty streets for a long time could be cool and meaningful, except that it isn't. it actually gets a little boring. the world of rape is dark and dreary and noirish. so what?

Gives you a bit of time to think realy, that was the intention realy, a few subtle hints and a long stretch of street for you to think about your actions comming up.  Hopefully on that stretch between the first rape and the apartment you do get bored, and slow down and think about it what has happened, and what is going to happen, throwing action segments in there to perk the players interest would just obscure the thinking period, especially in such a short game.

it's like the creator just assumed that if a story involved rape then that meant the story was meaningful.

When did I say it was meaningful?  Why did you assume it was meaningful?  Does a shooter game with gun murder need to be meaningful?

Just to slip into this little shitstorm (and inevitably make things worse), I'd like to thank you, Paul, for creating such an incredible game.
The style was absolutely great, the gameplay all it needed to be, and everything was very fitting, from the mood, characters, setting, and even to the length of the game.
I loved the choices afforded to the player, giving us that degree of control over the nature of each character, and I really enjoyed how that affected the struggle between what I guess was "bad" and "good", Eddie and Mike respectively.
I can't put words in your mouth so I'm not going to imagine I know exactly what you were trying to convey, but I for one found it very moving and thought-provoking.

That's all, really. Thought you'd appreciate another nice comment among some that seem a little less so. You said you've gone to get drunk on another page, so have a great one dude, you've earned it.

Thanks for playing dude glad you liked it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:41:19 PM by Farmergnome » Logged

MegaIlinx
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« Reply #297 on: September 12, 2009, 08:51:02 AM »

Just finished playing this game. Excellent mood - adult in content and presentation. I'm looking forward to more games from you Farmergnome!  Noir
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« Reply #298 on: September 12, 2009, 12:37:24 PM »

When did I say it was meaningful?  Why did you assume it was meaningful?  Does a shooter game with gun murder need to be meaningful?
well alright then. if you set out to create a meaningless game with a very strong atmosphere, you've done so. it seems a little exploitative to use rape as the subject matter, though, if that's all you're doing.
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #299 on: September 12, 2009, 02:05:07 PM »

Why is it exploitative? I don't get what you are saying. He got the inspiration from a friend, if I recall correctly. He didn't even use rape as the subject matter, that would be Edmund-the rapist. That would be opposite of a game like Muslim Massacre where the subject matter would be more about the killing than the killer.
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