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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsCREEPSLORE - Monsters, Lies & Beer (a 2.5D adventure vn hybrid)
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Author Topic: CREEPSLORE - Monsters, Lies & Beer (a 2.5D adventure vn hybrid)  (Read 2727 times)
Logen
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« on: November 01, 2020, 01:08:08 AM »


I've been lurking these forums from time to time, so decided to bite the bullet and post my own devlog here.
Friend and I have been working on this in our free time for the past 2 years, there's still a lot to do, but we're finally at a stage where we can start showing progress.


Bigger screenshots, because the forum can't fit them: https://imgur.com/gallery/5sPsg2b

The game is made in the style of older 2.5D JRPG / survival horror games with pre-rendered backgrounds. We're making these in Quake (the backgrounds, not the game), simply because it's easier and faster for us to map things out classic BSP style, than to model everything and wait for substance to crash mid-way through (we tried). Not to mention it gives us a very specific look with what we can work with as a base, and don't have to edit these images too much.


Characters are all low poly models, with black and white textures, that are drawn by my friend first on paper, then scanned in, edited and lastly animated in a choppy style for longer 'talk sequences'.


The game at it's core is a comedy, so we went into a funky direction with the design, but in the grand context of things, everything makes sense, once you understand the why's and how's of the world. You interact with monsters, listen to their problems, and either help them out or not. However, offering help is not always the good option, and can lead to an unwanted outcome.


The game features a LOT of text, as it's a mixture Adventure games and Visual Novels. The longer form story elements and dialogues are in the latter form, while exploration and discovery are in the style of the former. There's going to be 18 major locations in total that you can explore, and 80+ unique characters that you can meet.



However, do note that even though this game is part Visual Novel, we DO NOT have any nude scenes or such. It contains no adult content whatsoever. We're just using the format to it's advantage, and more akin to tell a good a story, and introduce wacky characters in a weird world, than anything. We're also not keen on 'player punishment' as seen in some games, so the game features multiple scenarios to play through, based on the early decisions you make. You won't be forced to experience the same things over and over again, just to get 10 minutes of extra content in the form of a new ending.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 01:57:26 AM by sprt » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2020, 02:25:18 AM »

Heh, even without reading anything, the first gif reminded me of Quake. #Approval
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Logen
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2020, 06:48:51 AM »

Considering the style and genre of the game, I've been on edge trying to think about what exactly to show, and whatnot (without getting into too many spoilers).

This past week work continued, albeit slowly. Had some trouble with the inventory system, that was solved rather quickly, so quite frankly, not much of interest to even mention it. Story-wise, we expanded a character and their motivations, albeit again, can't really show that, can I?

Now, what I can show is something that we came up with recently. Our original plan was to have 'fake loading screens' as chapter titles, while also using them to control the pacing and flow a bit more between the transitions of said chapters. I find that a lot of times nowadays, you just 'can't settle in' or have a breather when there should be time for such.

I'm not saying that we need long load times or anything, but personally feel that short loading screens like in the original Tomb Raider games, helped prepare the player for the upcoming challenges, and also functioned as a mood setting device (despite their main goal being simply the fact that data had to be loaded).

What we ended up doing was coming up with the idea of having Painted Title Cards that represent a major part of each chapter that you're about to play. It will hint at what's to come, but won't spoil anything from it. Stylistically, these are somewhat inspired by old movie titles and Batman TAS. We feel that it adds a nice flavour to the game, and extends the atmosphere quite a bit.


Fun fact: had to redo the post work on this from scratch. The psd got corrupted and also managed to loose some files (thankfully nothing too major) because of random city wide power outages, which have been plaguing me for the past few months.

Ended up getting an uninterruptible power supply (better now than later). Don't really feel like getting kicked in the face again.
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Logen
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2020, 09:20:55 AM »

A week filled with bug fixing, gameplay optimization, anger management, and finally some enlightenment. There were quite a few weird things happening between scene transitions and some basic commands, that turned out to be rather easily solvable. Originally, interactions with items, characters, and the world allowed the player a last chance to skip whatever they selected, before they got triggered. This was done in a 'realistic' fashion, where the player would be sent to the position of the aforementioned things, and would have to arrive at a set position for these to activate.

However, this led to some problems with the engines way of handling the 'action' command, and sometimes, despite the cancellation, things would still get triggered, even when the player didn't arrive at said position. Additionally, the way system also acted on it's own sometimes, and would send the player to a completely different position, than what they clicked. These were solved by simply treating these events as 'un-cancellable', which ended the engines tantrums.


The base system for the manual, which is constantly in the players inventory, got made, and is now easily readable. This is done in the style of old game manuals, open up any old PS1 jewel case, and you'll know how this'll work.


Earlier this year, I got hooked on the Dragon Quest franchise thanks to DQ-XI, and the game had a really great feature that I thought would be a no-brainer for any long form game out there. This was the 'story recap system', which, whenever you load up a save game, gives you a brief summary of the last things that happened in the story. This way, you don't have to worry about forgetting where you left off the last time you launched the application, as it will serve as a reminder.

It was quite tricky to properly implement, and figure out the logic behind it (took a few days), but in the end, works as intended. I'd say, most single player games with proper playtime, and a heavy focus on story should have these as a default. They're extremely useful.


Another big thing which was added is a rating system, which ranks your playthrough of the game. Depending on how much you explore and solve problems, you get classic alphabetical ranks at the end of each chapter. If you reach a certain rank, you'll be awarded with some extra content, and the higher you score, the better the reward will be.

There's been some other things we've worked on, but these are the major ones. That's all for now I guess.
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2020, 09:33:44 AM »

Well I'm interested, especially the "comedy visual novel set in a 2.5D JRPG aesthetic" sounds very unique. You seem to have put a lot of thought into the design already, based on what you're posting here.
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Logen
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2020, 09:52:44 AM »

Well I'm interested, especially the "comedy visual novel set in a 2.5D JRPG aesthetic" sounds very unique. You seem to have put a lot of thought into the design already, based on what you're posting here.

Thanks! Yeah, it took us a while, but we really wanted to nail the style before delving too deep into things. There's nothing worse than re-doing assets in a game that's as big as this one. Of course, this doesn't mean we don't do it, but it certainly cuts down the number of things that we end up reworking.
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2020, 12:04:20 PM »

No battle plan survives contact with the enemy, but no battle is won without it. Or something like that
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Logen
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2020, 12:06:37 AM »

We've been under the radar for a bit, for a number of reasons. Firstly, my PSU decided to turn into a motorbike and die. Luckily, I had another one lying around from my gutted Pentium 4 of all things, and it still works. Perks of my PC being 10+ years outdated... Secondly, we've mostly focused on expanding.

Our character's have all been given extended backgrounds, personalities and essentially LIVES. They've been doing things before the game takes place, and there's things happening to them while you are there next to them. We've really wanted to make it a point, that our characters are not just simple 'dude standing on the corner with a random line' or 'generic store clerk', but instead, actual developed characters. A lot of games tend to just splatter towns and environments with non-descript NPCs, and we wanted to avoid that. This meant, however, that everyone had to be 'upgraded' in terms of who they are, and what connections they have.


While we do take measures against burning out, especially with a project of this scale, I still ended up being completely zombiefied for more than a week during this. Which honestly doesn't surprise me, as at the end, our final character count ended up becoming 108. But, with this, everyone fell into the right place, and we also continued finishing up art for these individuals. We have 6 character designs left to do, so I'd say we're on track.

Additionally we've been also expanding the world itself, and we're in the middle of overhauling the major town of the game, making it bigger and moving around things.


We've never shown it, but we really do mean the 'create as much as possible in quake' idea, down to the tiny, juicy details. So here's a few of our props, just to give you a tease of how much we actually adhere to this mentality. And yes, we still have our sanity. BSP 4 Life.

Last, but not least, have a bit of a cross section example of how things look before and after post processing.

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JobLeonard
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2020, 04:31:12 AM »

Wait, you're also developing on era-appropriate hardware? Damn
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Logen
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2020, 10:01:55 AM »

Wait, you're also developing on era-appropriate hardware? Damn

Thankfully no, lol, I'd go insane. My PC is just really old, but not pentium old (eg: CPU is an Amd Phenom II X4 945) . Although if someone offered me a Nexstation or SGI, I'd gladly 'force myself' to do things as such. Albeit music hardware wise, we do have era-appropriate equipment (sound modules and misc racks), and some really old software here and there (Photoshop 6.0 eyyy), so there's that.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 10:16:43 AM by sprt » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2020, 02:43:06 AM »

I feel like every time I make an update post, I lean towards 'It's been a while' or something of the sort, despite it being obvious to anyone that, indeed, the last one wasn'tyesterday.

Work has been an on-and-off type of thing lately, mostly because there were other BTS type of things to do, such as the replacement of some music gear, and a grant application. The former went unexpectedly well, while the latter was honestly just a pain in the ass, with lot's of confusing paperwork, an intelligence test, and a bit of online pitching involved. Being second to last to pitch, and having to explain things to people who had absolutely no idea what I was even talking about, was frankly a challenge, and somewhat annoying. The 'committee' kept cutting me off mid-sentence multiple times, with the weirdest questions ever, so I never managed to finish what I wanted to say, and in the end, the time ran out.

Honestly, at that point I gave up on it, considering you can't sell a shovel to someone who doesn't have a garden, but to my surprise, I've made the cut, and was selected to partake in the final round. This involves going through a paid business course in january, and then a presentation of a proposed business plan at the end of that month. If that is accepted, the grant is awarded. The amount that can be requested is quite frankly abysmal, but it would at least allow for a long due PC upgrade. It's something.


As for the game itself, I proclaimed last time that we finalized the character count at 108. Well, it only took us about 2 days to bump that number up to 112... In our defense, a game is constantly evolving and changing. Said characters also weren't new, but ones we ended up removing beforehand (not pictured), because we felt were a bit too much. This, however lead us down a story path where we noticed that we were lacking the appropriate number of creatures, so we ended up putting them back in a slightly modified form. While it's better this way, we really don't want something to take forever to finish, because we cannot say 'stop' when it needs to be said. So now I can (hopefully) say that the 112 number of characters, is the FINAL count for the game.


In other news, we ended up reworking our plans for cutscenes a bit. Thus far, we've been using edited stock footage as a reference for when we actually tackle 3D FMVs, but we decided to go with cutscenes based in 2D instead, as we deemed them much more interesting and found a visually striking style for them.


We also ended up coming up with a 'game within the game', which is a bit more of a throwback, but still fits within the confinements of the main one.

Don't think I have anything else to say for now, these are the main changes we made. Enjoy your Holidays.
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« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2020, 04:17:26 AM »

112, the international emergency number in Europe. Accidental symbolism?
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Logen
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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2020, 09:00:37 AM »

112, the international emergency number in Europe. Accidental symbolism?

Lol, that never crossed my mind. Not really a numbers guy, should we just delete about half of these and aim for a 69? Gomez
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2020, 08:57:25 AM »

That 'storeroom' screenshot in your earlier post is brutal, given its Quake1 engine. My Word! Plus it gives the game specific look.
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Logen
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2021, 01:10:42 AM »


Wow, can't believe it's been so long since I've made a progress post. We've been rather busy, mostly because of the previously mentioned grant. Fair warning to anyone applying for such: it's a pain in the ass, and takes more time than it should. The one I'm involved with had a pre-requisite of an intensive business course, which the fund supervised and paid for, followed by an extremely thorough business plan, research, healthy dosage of stress, and lots of paperwork. I would love to say I'm done with it, but at this point in time I'm not even sure what's to become of it. I've been placed on 'reserves' and it seems the amount of money available and the number of potential grantees has been cut by 200 without any prior notice. If it wasn't, or I would have applied earlier, I'd qualify for the grant... considering all this took 13 months of my life already, I don't think anything is going come out of it. Except that in hindsight, I should have spent the time working on our game instead, and I regret having to take about 2,5 months off development almost completely because of it's 'intensive' nature.


With that said, for now, we're back full throttle on Creepslore. We've been finishing up character models, creating animations, finalizing our story branches, and re-planning the layouts of some locations. The latter we felt was a necessary step, as it was conceptualized about 2 years ago, and in the mean time, the game expanded significantly.


While never specifically mentioned, some of you might have already guessed, that we're trying to really hone in on an era representative (even if not fully accurate) style,so we've licensed some older sound effects libraries that were specifically used in the 32 bit console generation. In addition, the game will feature a soundtrack mostly done via older sound modules and synths aswell, which I've been slowly accumulating ever since the conception of Creepslore. I think I can confidently say that the audio side of things will be done as close as possible to the 90's (exceptions apply), as I'm at the point where I've got everything needed for it.


Hopefully the next time I sign in, I'll have more to say, and can show off some of the things we slapped together, but certain tasks (IRL texture gathering) have become quite difficult to do with current world events. Here's to wishing that I can finally continue with that in early summer, otherwise we're forced to take a different approach.
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 01:45:28 AM »

Lol, the first gif surprised me so much I actually burst out laughing

Quote
The one I'm involved with had a pre-requisite of an intensive business course, which the fund supervised and paid for, followed by an extremely thorough business plan, research, healthy dosage of stress, and lots of paperwork.
Sounds like right-wing "let's secretely re-educate these useless artists into more useful professions" bullshit again. They do that all the time in my home country at least with the types of grants there  Roll Eyes
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Logen
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2021, 07:13:34 AM »

This was originally written as a general blog post, re-posting it here, as it's been a while.

HEY MEATBAGS!


I've been on the fence about writing this post, as while it directly involves the development of the game, it's also more personal, and I'm not entirely sure if that's something people would find an interesting read, or just plain annoying.

However, I've promised more details in the future, and I'm seeing this as a good opportunity to give you a bit of a 'filler' before we get into the core of things. So let me explain some of what's been happening behind the scenes. Additionally, enjoy some scrumptious character art.

Do Publishers dream with electric sheep?


Publishers have always weirded me out. On paper, they sound nice, as long as you don't start reading any contracts. Then it just becomes terrifying, especially so if you're a small time dev. Even if their public relations and track record gives you a positive vibe, you cannot ever really be sure, how things will go down, once you sign that piece of paper. Your partner is still someone who has much more resources, manpower and experience in the field.

Despite this, it has always intrigued me, how much it would actually take to get signed, so last year, I did the unthinkable, and submitted a pitch to a company whom I thought would be fitting for the weird game we're trying to make: Devolver.

Usually people don't name drop anyone in posts like this, in fear of cutting off future prospects they might have, but I think there's no point talking about something in a round about way. And it's not like my experiences were really bad either.

Surprisingly, someone from Devolver responded within a week, saying they're intrigued, and that we should chat. Shocking, really, but at this point they haven't even seen the game in motion, and all they had was a 10 page document outlining what the project is, with some art attached. We talked for about 1,5 hours in detail, and things felt they went rather well, despite me doing this the first time.

Few months down the line I've sent them access to the prototype, which ultimately ended up with them passing. Which isn't bad really, as the prototype is just that, a prototype, not to mention the game started to evolve and change quite a bit meanwhile, for the better I might add (the current media available are all from that). I've also never done anything of the sort before, so having a company show any interest at all was quite uplifting.

So here I thought: well, might as well get more experience with this, not like I have anything to lose. Even if it's only wishful thinking, I might end up being able to work on the game full time, so let's try this again, shall we?

While I fully understand not every game can get or even deserves a publishing deal, I didn't let that discourage me. Again, I'm literally a no one. So let's see who else is out there?


Humble Games is an odd one. They seem to have streamlined their process of accepting pitches, and provide a template for you to fill out. They're also always looking for games to include in their next batch of monthly subscription bundle, so hey, who knows? Filled out their forms, and waited for their reply, which was to be generally within 5-7 workdays. Well, it's been about half a year, and they still haven't even watched the video I've sent them. Eh, must be busy, maybe too humble. Or our game really sucks, who knows, lol. Albeit in the meantime, I've also learned that if you do get a contract with them, you will earn the mesmerising amount of 0$ dollars (http://weatherfactory.biz/state-of-the-factory-year-1/) from being in their monthly bundle.

Depending on what situation you're in, I'm willing to bet that most people would say 'that's OK with me', given the chance that they get a lump sum for development, and can go full time. Honestly, I would probably too. But making literally nothing off of your work doesn't sound right.

Sure, you can argue about the multitudes of aspects regarding this: you could make the game you wanted, because of their investment, people who potentially get the bundle, might never have bought your game otherwise, or that said bundle gives you exposure and all that. However, the only exposure that has ever helped people in my book was with an X-ray machine, so I'm really not fond of not getting a dime for my work. Not exactly disappointed that we never ended up with a conversation, except for that sweet upfront payment. But would that have been worth it in the long run? We'll never know.

About two months after not getting any replies from Humble, I've decided to not let their pitch template go to waste, and sent it out to a few smaller publishers: Fellow Traveller Games, Untold Tales, SUPERHOT, Ysbryd and a few others I don't remember. Nearly all of them replied within a span of one week, except for one, who profoundly apologised for taking an extra week, as they were busy with E3.

In the end, everyone passed on working with us.

Which sounds dramatic, I know. But it wasn't a bad experience at all. We've been politely told that our game either doesn't fit into their catalogue, or it's not what they're looking for. Some gave us words of encouragement or that their doors are always open for anything else in the future. Guess never say never, right? Who knows, there might be something down the line that clicks, and ends up in a collaboration.

So what's the takeaway here?


During the pitching process, I've noticed a few things. For starters, obviously everyone wants to work with a group, who already have some sort of experience. Rarely, if anyone wants to sign a deal with a person who they can't be sure of. Money IS on the line here, it's a business, no matter the artistic merit or passion an individual has. It's not a guarantee of any sort.

In our case: while there's some mods, games on steam, or even the app store in which we were involved with (to varying degrees), not every credit counts. You can have great experience in modeling, but If you don't have at least a short / tiny game that you've finished and released by yourself / with your team, your chances of getting signed are rather slim.

Secondly, not everyone you think is fit for you, will think that you are a fit for them. I ran into this, expecting something from companies who had a track record in the same / similar genre, only to be told that the they're currently not looking for said genre. Bummer.
Thirdly: our game is weird. I've talked about this before, but the sheer mention of 'Visual Novel' being involved with your title, puts a huge stigma on it, even if content and style wise, it bears little to no resemblance to it. Similarly, we're a 'Point and Click' game, but at the same time, we aren't. Creepslore is a hybrid bastard, that is hard to define properly, and the closest I've come to lately was 'Narrative Comedy Adventure'. It sounds like @$$.

So let me rephrase that: We are and aren't a Visual Novel and Point and Click adventure game. You see the problem? If you say you're part of a genre, some people will ignore you, but if you mention that you are not exactly the clear cut vanilla of said category, you will alienate those, who would otherwise be a part of your market. We're stuck between a cliff, in which case a single bad move can cost us greatly, and let us fall down into obscurity. Be it pitching to publishers, or marketing directly to players, we've certainly shot ourselves in the foot with this one.

Honestly, in a demented way, it's great though. Being an underdog relaxes some of the pressure you might feel from high expectations, and it enables you doing whatever you want. Doesn't mean you should, or that it will bring you great fortune, but at least you've been working on something that you really like, and stuck to it, until the end. Sure, money and appreciation would be nice, but having the luxury of not getting pressured is a wonderful perk.

Although the damn bread keeps costing more and more, so I might just be talking nonsense from delirium. *chews on grass*

Money should grow on trees.


Ever since the supermarket notified us of having restocked their toilet paper, the second most exciting news has been, that: We've been awarded a grant!

Well, sort of. And it only took 18 months to get it...

The country I live in, has 0 supporting measures for most things, especially videogames, so no funds or opportunities exist. The single one that is available to us, is through Creative Europe from the EU, but unfortunately, it has strict guidelines, which is impossible to meet as a start-up.

Thus, here comes the single saving grace: the grant for New Entrepreneurs! With the absolutely weirdest prerequisite ever:

1. You never had your own company
2. AND You are a NEET under the age of 30
3. OR You are UNEMPLOYED and above the age of 30

Well, coincidentally, back in 2020, I just said goodbye to an abusive Hospitality job, so I applied immediately. Then world events happened and everything changed. Delays followed delays, until I finally got a confirmation back, that I've made reserves. Cool, I thought, guess this means we'll be in business shortly, right? Wrong.

It became abundantly clear, that this is going to be a really dragged out process, where every tiny bit of thing needs not only approval, but extensive administration and a lot of hours put into it. We had to go through multiple workshops, that thought us nothing (besides basic advertising on facebook), outline and present business plans (which had to be realistic, but also inspiring) and of course, pitch our business idea to a committee. Mine was made up from 60+ year old grandmas...

If you think you've seen thoroughly confused people in your life, try explaining a super niche videogame to people who don't even know what tetris is. The only thing you can do is throw out industry sales data, and portray confidence. In this case, it somehow worked.

Flash forward to 2021, I hand in my final business plan and await approval. Which never comes. Instead, I get a message that my goals are not aspiring enough. Cool. I rewrite the plan, and using the book 'Masters of Doom' as a starting point, I proclaim to the Grant People that I will become rich and famous in the next year. Talking out of my (m)as(s)k seems to work, I get the okay.

Except, their money runs out, and they need to fuel more into the program, which takes another few months. At this point, in my mind, I quietly give up, and assume that I've wasted more than a year of my life on something stupid. One day, through some sheer miracle, I get a message, that everything is OK. I accept the contract, and await the glorious loot. Weeks pass, and yet another random encounter happens: their system farts their code out, the digital contracts have been corrupted, and we all need to re-sign it. Lucky me. I start laughing hysterically and do as I'm told.

The money arrives, in late august.

Without notice, of course. I can't believe it happened. I'm baffled, that I actually have it. It's surreal! I keep checking the balance for an hour, until it hits me, and I let out a massive shriek of joy. Almost two years down the line, but made it. I've got funding!... To basically upgrade my PC.

The amount is... Abysmal, compared to general development costs, but it allows me to buy a new rig. I honestly can't really 'upgrade' anything from my current setup, as it's 12+ years old, and even then I bought it used. While our game doesn't require a beast of a configuration, development will benefit from not having to use an AMD Phenom cpu from 2009 anymore...

This would sound nice if it ended here, but there's more to the story.


Since this is essentially a start-up grant, there's a couple of things that need to be done. Firstly: a certain income quota has to be met within a year. If it's not, the money has to be repaid. Our course leaders told us to always stand on both of our feet, meaning we have to have a backup, in case our venture fails. Because our game is not being sold yet, I've been doing some freelance work on the side. Nothing too spectacular, but combined with the excruciatingly detailed administrative tasks we need to do in regards to the fund, is more hassle than anyone would honestly think.

And here comes the second problem: quarterly business report. Again, such a thing would not seem to be an issue, except, because of strict guidelines, everything has to be accounted for, and documented in down to minute detail. Introduce a new challenger: my bank, the saboteur.

At every turn during this whole process, I've had issues with my bank account, which had to be newly created for this grant. A main account used for the business and a sub one, used for the grant. The bank 'forgot' to give me access to my sub account, charged expenditures from it (should have been the main one as a default), wasn't connected to the main account (how is this even possible?), sent me reports through paper documentation (despite opting in for digital) and had statements per transactions, instead of a general monthly one. After finally fixing all of these issues (which didn't exist on the main account) the biggest problem arose:

They cannot give me a monthly statement retroactively, if the account was not previously set up in it as their system cannot do so, nor can they manually create one, as it's against their policy. And guess what the grant needs? Monthly statements.

If I cannot provide the required documents, I'm in a breach of contract, and have to repay the grant with interest... After finally getting a PC that can run more things than Solitaire and Minesweeper, I might be forced to go back to the rig that smells like burnt toast, and unlock complete financial suicide. How fun.

Now, I pride myself in being able to deal with lots of stress (well, just ignoring it really) but I haven't been this freaked out in a decade. The single time something moderately good happens in life, there has to be someone kicking you in the shins, snapping you back to reality. With zero support and opportunities, the sole thing that could finally help you is about to be taken away, because of the incompetence of a third party... Things are still in limbo though, so we'll see what happens.

Here's wishful thinking that Lord Cthulhu shows up this Halloween and accidentally blasts the bank to smithereens. I've heard he doesn't like tellers.

The road to Crowdfunding doesn't exist... Yet.

A while ago, I wrote up an article (https://www.gamedeveloper.com/disciplines/why-some-indies-we-can-t-afford-to-earn-money-from-crowdfunding) about the improbabilities of Crowdfunding for us. The amount of tax that we'd need to pay after one, is about half the money we'd get. And then we weren't even talking about physical rewards with the cost of their production, which are one of the bigger reasons people pledge their support. Not being in the US, has several disadvantages, where Crowdfunding becomes almost impossible for us mere pleb... For now.

In late October this year however, the EU law will change. While there's some noticeable changes even now, the biggest is yet to come. Not being fully versed in the explicit details yet, as I've mostly seen the investor sides of things getting mentioned, there's hope for the future. If things go through, we might do a kickstarter later this year, with a lot of exciting exclusivities, including a lot of custom trinkets, buying the game at a discount, and even getting the original, hand drawn character art included as part of the rewards.


One character actually found a new home already. Fitting, as he is homeless.

Unfortunately none of the bigger Crowdfunding sites support our countries, so there's no way for us to do any of this. It's just a possibility at this point, nothing more.

When is the early bird too early?

I'm not a huge fan of Early Access. I've only ever backed 2 games, one was a 'dine and dash' where developers left us with a broken pile of garbage, while the other one exceeded expectations, and became one of my go-to activities. So in my personal experience, it's a 50-50 chance that something good will come out of these things. We've been dabbling with the possibility in this regard, to launch in Early Access, as it might benefit us in the long run.

We've been working too long on Creepslore, and there's still a lot to be done (especially with our rework). Having 5 individual branches is both a blessing and a curse. A curse, because we want to release everything in one big package. A blessing, because technically these are segregated, and can be released periodically.

So we've been thinking of releasing the game through periodical updates. Launch with 1 or 2 of the branches, and have the others come in at a later point. This wouldn't be the typical 'episodic' formula that most games use though, as we still want everyone to have access to the full game by the end of development. Some might say, that it's good to have separate chapters as individual purchases, just in case you don't like the first one, but I feel like that's besides the point.

People can always get a refund or just try our demo. Yes, there WILL be a DEMO in the end, so you could check the game out freely, without worrying about playtime and refunds. However, in the meantime, those who wish to support the game early, will be able to do so, at a possibly discounted rate, and tag along, first in line, as the newest stories get released.

These are all just ideas and speculation at this point, nothing is set in stone. It can go either way. We might do either, or neither. The single thing that is for sure: the next time you notice an update on our steam page, it will include a video.

Concussion or conclusion?

With all that said, thanks for taking the time reading this. As promised, I'm trying to be as clear cut and open about everything as possible. I'm not sure if this is the explicit direction we need to be heading in, but I've always valued raw honesty more than anything. With that said:

If you have any questions, suggestions, or just a witty remark, drop a line below, and tell us what you think!

Cheers, Logen
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« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 07:48:32 AM by Logen » Logged

Alain
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« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2021, 12:32:32 AM »

Thanks for sharing your experience Logen. I initially skimmed your post, but got sucked into it and read the whole thing. I love your way of writing Wink

I totally share your feeling that publisher contracts are a scary thing to read and getting to know potential business partners can be very time consuming and often leads to nothing. But as you say, it is a good learning experience.

Creepslore has such a wonderful art style that I am not surprised a lot of people will want to talk to you. I have my fingers crossed that you can figure out the financing and won't compromise your vision.
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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2021, 01:53:27 AM »

Thanks for sharing your experience Logen. I initially skimmed your post, but got sucked into it and read the whole thing. I love your way of writing Wink

I totally share your feeling that publisher contracts are a scary thing to read and getting to know potential business partners can be very time consuming and often leads to nothing. But as you say, it is a good learning experience.

Creepslore has such a wonderful art style that I am not surprised a lot of people will want to talk to you. I have my fingers crossed that you can figure out the financing and won't compromise your vision.

Thanks, appreciated! I always love reading about behind the scenes happenings from others, so wanted to tack on some of my experience. Lot of non-technical stuff gets swept under the rug (or never mentioned), so it's always a challenge finding precedents that could give people a bit of insight. I think things are still too mystified, especially for us little guys.

As you've said, finding partners just takes too much time. Then, if you're a small team, you also have to manage the workload, milestones (if any), do the marketing besides development, so it becomes a complete chaos.

I used to think as a youngster that I could just wear all the hats needed, but honestly, if anyone can: they need to delegate. I'd rather just focus on making the game I want, than do all the management and hunt for finances as well. Having a third party deal with that is such an underrated idea, especially with indies, where you're used to do everything yourself (out of necessity usually, lol).

Otherwise I too hope I can find a way to make things work out in the end. If all fails, I still have a perfectly working liver from a non-smoking household.  Wink

Ps: My character artist sends you his regards (he needs more love imho).
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Alain
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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2021, 12:19:46 AM »

Thanks, appreciated! I always love reading about behind the scenes happenings from others, so wanted to tack on some of my experience. Lot of non-technical stuff gets swept under the rug (or never mentioned), so it's always a challenge finding precedents that could give people a bit of insight. I think things are still too mystified, especially for us little guys.

I totally agree. I hadn't considered it too much, but I think I will also make a post here or even a video about the behind the scenes and business/finance stuff. It has been eating more than 50% of my time for months and even though it is not flashy, it might be something to talk about.


As you've said, finding partners just takes too much time. Then, if you're a small team, you also have to manage the workload, milestones (if any), do the marketing besides development, so it becomes a complete chaos.

I used to think as a youngster that I could just wear all the hats needed, but honestly, if anyone can: they need to delegate. I'd rather just focus on making the game I want, than do all the management and hunt for finances as well. Having a third party deal with that is such an underrated idea, especially with indies, where you're used to do everything yourself (out of necessity usually, lol).

Getting support and delegating is something I didn't want for a long time. But the thing is that if I don't do it, I will most likely need to be spending so much time with what I am actually not too good at like crunching marketing numbers and strategizing. And of course I do not have a considerable marketing budget if I don't find financing. Also, I have recently dipped my toe into working with a friend, who is an illustrator. His art is just so much better than what I can make myself, so why not share some of the workload?

Ps: My character artist sends you his regards (he needs more love imho).
Say hi from me back, he seems to be amazing!


I also wanted to comment on you talking about the grant and bank stuff saying that you pride yourself in being able to deal with lots of stress but have not been this freaked out in a decade. You are not alone. Dealing with fiscal authorities, notaries and banks is stressful and I am always afraid to do something wrong, breach a contract and end up in prison, while all I wanted to do is make a game. What gives me a good feeling is having a tax accountant I really trust. I have been working with him for over 10 years and when I have business/legal questions he usually says "This is not a tax related questions so I am not allowed to help you with that, but..." and then puts me on track to solve the problem. His rates are lower than a lawyer's and he does not bill me when he puts me on track like that. So I can recommend to find help for the business side of things. I know that you still need a lawyer for the real legal stuff and that I am still completely accountable myself, but this lets me sleep a bit easier. A bit.
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