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[Suttebun]

The amount of space I have to be me is very minimal and the people who get into my circle seem to be filtered by some external force.

So yes, I'm stuck: when I make games I want to make, *you* Suttebun who is arguing about "make the game you want to make inside your inner true self" then quickly tell me that "well no, not like that."

I got you, you want to make the game that's inside you.

There totally is an invisible pull. Like "cool".
I apologize if you're not a gatcha game and I called you one. I misread your title haha

I think the purest game is Picross3d on the NDS.





Now, I say this from a players view. As I don't believe a creator should ever be the creator view. (japan)
I have a Nintendo DS with puzzles on it that jog my thoughts.. but also somehow manages to put me in the space of a rainy forest with charming music! The intrusion of my money is gone. It hurts to remember how much money I have, and how much I can spend. And a game - with it's ineffical ability to teleport me to a new world allows me to have a different pay grade haha

Breaking that hurt games. It started with MMORPG's like Maplestory - but was almost okay.
And Runescape with their membership, which introduced a classist social behaviour to us kids..
If he paid for it - he can go there.. but I can't. Suddenly silence begins because the kid doesn't want to tell his friend.

That's what I mean by money not being a good thing in games - we should be the world where they go to, not take them to the 'real' world. heh heh *it's not real but we have to do it rant*

[Suttebun]

Not to mention; the pull may be your audience.

[michaelplzno]

So you *are* saying that my perspective needs to change. That being me and making the game I want to make is an issue. That I should alter the course of what I'm doing for those (weird GMOD engineers) or whomever the invisible audience I have is.

Couple of problems: I do not know what the invisible pull is, it is quite invisible. You say I should drop money from MGZ but you don't seem to even want to play it, or even read the title of the game fully. Its hard to give such an opinion weight.

In terms of money being something *you* don't like and don't want to play with, I'm not so sure that is universally true, considering that the bulk of video games have some form of money (OR POINTS) and MGZ's economy is about capitalizing on your pet's good health. That is, your pets only work when they are treated well and cared for. That may not be a lesson you want to learn, or one that you like, but its a pretty good Aesop: you can't get blood from a stone, you gotta treat the workers of the world right if you want production to continue.

Now: the idea that there should be no money is a popular thing right now, particularly on twitter. 'How can you own groceries, that's a sin!' I get it, but its sort of disingenuous to make a game that costs money to sell the ideal that there should be no money. "Buy my manifesto explaining why money shouldn't exist, only $9.99!"

Just to be clear, one thing that is more important than money, is time. You'll note that in Picross3d time isn't free, despite its pure ability to transport you to another universe, time is as much a commodity as money is in real life. If you cannot complete the mission on time you lose, or get a permanent black mark (missing star) on your record.





There are some people who are quite stingy with their time, I would argue to their detriment, but most people are a little loose with it, still something to learn about how to spend well, no?

In MGZ we have two NPC characters devoted to both Time and Money, Era and Zee. These are concepts all humans must deal with so maybe this fun presentation of them as friends you can play with will make you feel better about the concept in reality?

[michaelplzno]

Was it something I said?

[Beastboy]

Ha, this entire topic was funny to read

[michaelplzno]

I feel bad because the guy left the forum, idk I never know the right way to deal with things.

[J-Snake]

Game design has never been more stagnant, people have forgotten about the rivers of sounds behind the written and thought theories of music. What I mean by that is, it may seem as if humans have already discovered the entire possibility range of games - but they have not. To be honest, they really really haven't.

That's true, but that is not the problem. The problem is the catering to an audience. An authentic game doesn't cater to an audience, it creates it.

[michaelplzno]

Creating an audience is one of the most difficult activities one can engage in. I agree that pandering to people won't get me what I want, but damn, just pushing for something new is a big slog that is just unpleasant.

[Beastboy]

Game design has never been more stagnant, people have forgotten about the rivers of sounds behind the written and thought theories of music. What I mean by that is, it may seem as if humans have already discovered the entire possibility range of games - but they have not. To be honest, they really really haven't.

That's true, but that is not the problem. The problem is the catering to an audience. An authentic game doesn't cater to an audience, it creates it.

Wise statement.

[michaelplzno]

At the risk of whining way too much, yes, it is clear that one must find their own way, build their own audience, make themself a thing. Other people will always try to box you into their way of doing things, and asserting yourself will will always close doors. Nobody said it was easy, but nobody said it would be this hard.

[Beastboy]

The video choice is weird

[michaelplzno]

I am a weirdo! I'm quite proud of it. I like that its about rationality, the scientist, and that it has the line nobody said it was easy...

but since you want something else that is whiney that might make more sense:

[InvisibleWonder]

That was an epic analysis of the original post.  Very entertaining.  The thing about game design is that you have to convey an artificial world with it's own mechanics and logic concisely and clearly. OP could have used a huge dose of that.

[michaelplzno]

Design in general takes excellent communication skills, speaking to people of various creative and technical persuasions and driving the direction you want home clearly. Its profoundly difficult. Part of why I gave this guy the business is that he posted his cryptic post in the design section and then told me to put in the work to interpret his ideas. I admit that one does not need to spoon feed anyone other than the biggest of simpletons, but also if you are communicating it is up to the one who is speaking to actually say something.

"We could walk for miles, we could walk for miles, and not move an inch."

And to be fair, I tend to get my guard up pretty fast when I smell some nonsense that isn't the brand of nonsense I enjoy, so I'm guilty of being difficult for sure.

But designing a game is not a simple or easy task, so perhaps all sides should "put in the work or walk away" as OP said. The last thing a game project needs is someone who is all talk.