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[Alevice]

The jeweler who turns down an uncut stone is a fool, I will die on that hill.

it is not the scope of the jeweler to cut it, considering how much risk is on it. selling it alone takes far mroe effort than you are believing it does.

same applies for the game

[Alevice]

the baker who turns down wheat grains is a fool

the cpu manufacturer who turns down sand is a fool

the electrician who turns down a copper vein is a fool

the printer who turns down logs is a fool

[michaelplzno]

Maybe it could be rephrased a bit, but I stand by it: a baker who doesn't know what the value of wheat grains is, how it is made, or how it is made into bread is indeed a fool. Maybe they don't have to buy wheat grains, but if they are to say that it just isn't valuable they are quite definitionally foolish.

Edit: all of your examples are the same, in the office they make all this noise about knowing how paper is made which is important for the business of selling paper, even if they don't manufacture it. Also they were constantly on the brink of bankruptcy, which perhaps getting into manufacturing paper would have been a clever move.

Edit2: A baker who finds a novel cheaper source of wheat grains and succesfully creates a pipeline of how to make bread from it would be wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice. Maybe this baker isn't in it for the money, they just like how kneading dough feels. EVEN STILL, that guy is a fool for not telling someone who does know the value of things about his discovery.

Edit3: "Oh I'm a baker, what does wheat grain have to do with anything? All that matters is flour." - Yes that sounds real smart.

[michaelplzno]

Its an interesting idea for a cynical game where there is a guy who does some basic job at a factory and the stuff that comes into the factory is more and more fantastical and problematic, and he just keeps pressing the "NO" button not knowing where any of the materials or other stuff the factory produces goes. There is chaos and fires and dead bodies coming through the pipeline, all kinds of narrative about a world in chaos, things to explore, he never tells his boss about any of it. This guy just knows that if he pushes the button every time he's fine. Would you say that character is a fool?

[Alevice]

Maybe it could be rephrased a bit, but I stand by it: a baker who doesn't know what the value of wheat grains is, how it is made, or how it is made into bread is indeed a fool. Maybe they don't have to buy wheat grains, but if they are to say that it just isn't valuable they are quite definitionally foolish.

Edit: all of your examples are the same, in the office they make all this noise about knowing how paper is made which is important for the business of selling paper, even if they don't manufacture it. Also they were constantly on the brink of bankruptcy, which perhaps getting into manufacturing paper would have been a clever move.

Edit2: A baker who finds a novel cheaper source of wheat grains and succesfully creates a pipeline of how to make bread from it would be wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice. Maybe this baker isn't in it for the money, they just like how kneading dough feels. EVEN STILL, that guy is a fool for not telling someone who does know the value of things about his discovery.

Edit3: "Oh I'm a baker, what does wheat grain have to do with anything? All that matters is flour." - Yes that sounds real smart.

A baker will be aware of quality wheat, but they wont invesst time into turning it into flour. Thats what other experts who can turn it into several different types of flour for different needs comes in.

They can undertand the whole process, but wont invest time or resources ino it as they have specialized in one apsetc they are extremely competent at and can maximize gains towards each other. They amy offer suggestions but in the end, as a developer, you will need to understand what YOU need to fix YOUR game.

WHat if the artist gog proposes doesnt work for you? WHy would gog keep suggesting them when in the ened you are the one who will need to sort out what works best (do they undrestand your pipeline, what you specifically need from them,, etc)?

[Alevice]

Its an interesting idea for a cynical game where there is a guy who does some basic job at a factory and the stuff that comes into the factory is more and more fantastical and problematic, and he just keeps pressing the "NO" button not knowing where any of the materials or other stuff the factory produces goes. There is chaos and fires and dead bodies coming through the pipeline, all kinds of narrative about a world in chaos, things to explore, he never tells his boss about any of it. This guy just knows that if he pushes the button every time he's fine. Would you say that character is a fool?

I can see you have neever been involved in a production pipeline lol

[michaelplzno]

I'll concede a bit on this because I admit, its not the baker's job to know about wheat grain. However if the baker were friendly they would point you to someone who might be interested in it. Yes, if you go into a Staples with a seed that magically grows trees that are 10 times easier to get paper from the guy who is in the store stocking the shelves isn't going to know what to do with it. But that's kind of an extremely twisted example.

GoG wants to *edit(have on its platform) the best possible games. They may not know your pipeline, but they could ask. If they refer an artist and it doesn't work out that's the end of it. But the pub should put in some time to try to get something working for you, especially if there is some kind of "intake fee" A publisher or platform or whatever you call it who cracks this problem of how to take games the distance from unpolished to gems that are worthy of being hits is going to be quite rich. Now again, publishers may not be in it for money, but that's a different discussion.

Also, yes I have never worked at a factory.

[michaelplzno]

If its up to me to know what my game needs and take care of hiring the right people and doing all the marketing and so on. GoG can't even help me find an artist. But also GoG has their own standards of what they will and will not publish? This makes no rational sense as to why I would ever give GoG 30% of my game's income?

[michaelplzno]

Just to be clear the trade offer that platforms are giving is:

PLATFORMS GET: to say no to your game being on our platform if we want. Platforms get 30% of the money. Platforms keep all the info about who your customers are and won't let you contact them at will. And the platform is entirely automated so no human will actually work on your game.

DEVS GET: Nothing.


Its a bold negotiation but my counter offer is that devs should get *something*

[Alevice]

host it yourself then

[michaelplzno]

That is what I'm doing now, and actually since I've gone independent and started publishing on my own platform things have been going better than dealing with steam which is just unpleasant.

[flowerthief]

Good grief that 30% figure is ubiquitous? I knew Apple and Google were like that from doing mobile dev but didn't realize it was some sacred number that the entire industry adheres to. So that must mean that every publisher will put forth the same amount of effort/value to help your game be successful? I doubt it.

Yeah, I'd say it's VERY relevant to be asking exactly what these publishers actually do to deserve 30%. If it's just allowing your game to sit on the same online shelves and be lost among zillions of other games then what kind of whore do you have to be to let your pimp take that big of a cut.

[michaelplzno]

Its interesting: a lot of indies will tell you that steam is the bee's knees, but I'm actually starting to become independent in a real way, that is, I self publish on my own platforms, and yeah, unless some platform has some warm and fuzzy feeling for you, it stinks being on other people's platforms.

Edit: If I could drop youtube and twitter I would too, and truly have my own system.

[flowerthief]

Michael, how do you go about starting your own platform, and how do people find out about it?

I gotta start figuring this stuff out since I have a web-based game in early development and don't know yet how I'm gonna distribute it.

[michaelplzno]

I'll msg you about https://swgio.com and give you a key so you can see what we're up to. Its still very early in beta but I'm soooooooo tired of big platforms treating me (and I presume others) like dirt.

And how do I get people interested? I'm literally telling anyone who will listen to join it. I was just doing an event IRL in Boston where I gave out free pins, which is kind of absurd, but actually it gets a very quality crowd of people who are quite friendly.

At some point we may do a paid marketing push for the platform, but it has to be more functional before we start paying for ads.

Also we are designing games where you get points and stuff for signing up your friends and all that. Badges for inviting people, etc.

[flowerthief]

  Awesome. I deeply wish your enterprise to succeed so that we have an alternative to big platforms.