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[goobTwoFiveSix]

Be honest. Is clicking around until something works skill? I don't play many new games because 99.999% of developers are marketers not game developers. If you think about marketing before the game is finished you are not a real game developer.

[michaelplzno]

[goobTwoFiveSix]

Not everyone.

[michaelplzno]

Just to be a bit more serious:

Being skilled at the process of trial and error is indeed a skill. Sadly the games that get marketed well end up being more visible obviously, I've always wanted to team up with good marketers somehow but it never seems possible.

Average by definition is average: its a little bit like racing a million dollar formula one race car, most people don't know how to do it and most people don't get a chance to do it, and a lot of people who do it fail and then end up giving up rather than practicing. Lots of gamedev companies are looking for limited people who will fall in line rather than fight for their own vision, and teach developers to keep their heads down and follow orders. Then when they get a chance to lead they really don't have much vision of their own because the wolf you feed is the one that lives.

Also, there are a lot of great developers out there who are getting better and better and really friendly and nice if you look carefully. They may not have made a hit game but they are just great people and really talented.

[failbetter]

What a bad take. Why not find another forum, where you don't feel the need to put the community down? What a joke

[goobTwoFiveSix]

What a bad take. Why not find another forum, where you don't feel the need to put the community down? What a joke

OK but if you knew what you're talking about, you'd know that poor workmanship has a real cost, even (especially?) in software...

[DarkGran]

The current state is a result of something positive meeting with harsh reality.

The positive thing is that anyone can start learning (and make visible to public) anything nowadays. However "No one is born with skill."
("It is developed through exercise, through repetition, through a blend of learning and reflection that's both painstaking and rewarding. And it takes time." - Twyla Tharp)

This hardly "costs" us anything, except that we have many more beginner-works to go through. And eventually, we ought to have more of the "expert-works" too.

EDIT: It is possible that the working (and learning) morale of "current generations" and therefore workmanship in general is in decline because "civilization reasons", but that is a difficult topic that cannot be discussed in the hobby-perspective only (which is what indie games ultimately are), because it kinda touches everything.
(Just FYI, in such a discussion, I would argue that this is only an illusion created by perspective/lack of data.)

As for the "developer x marketer" approach of today's indie creators, I think it's best to move with that to [Design] Richness in classic indie games (where it's been mentioned too).