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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperAudioIs Fiverr Reasonable...?
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Thaumaturge
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2023, 03:00:51 AM »

For all I know its some subtle sign I give off that gets people into attack mode. Getting a few likes or retweets from prominent members of the artistic community would be nice just to make me feel like less of a pariah, ...

Not having observed you interacting with many others, I'm very hesitant to give much comment here.

All that I can say is that I genuinely hope that you find a community that works for you.

(This is where I'd like to have TVTropes-forum-style "tone tags", so that I could mark the above with "SincerityMode".)

... but one dev I talked to said he "didn't want to clutter his feed." For example.

I don't know that specific situation, but if I gather correctly that you directly asked someone to follow you, then that might be seen by some as a bit abrasive--perhaps a bit demanding.

And, well, if someone doesn't like a given artist's work, then having that work on their feed would be clutter--especially as social media can all-too-easily become cluttered, I fear.

Only more so if they start doing so for multiple artists (as would seem fair), in which case their feed could become a flood of things that they have no real interest in.

But my saga to be accepted is getting a bit tiring at this point. I've grinded on it for years now. It does seem you need a formal introduction by someone who is a prominent member of the landed gentry to get anywhere with some artists. Not that artists recognize work that is valuable on its own merits. Whatever, I don't have to waste my time with someone like that who has their head up their butt.

I can certainly see that it would become rather wearisome, indeed.

I can't tell you where you're going wrong, I fear, or whether the error is on your side or theirs (or both, of course--"inclusive-'or'" ;P). It's tempting to guess, I'll confess, based on what little I've seen--but I very much fear doing more harm than good by commenting from so limited a perspective, and with no real expertise to inform me.

I'm probably not fully understanding the implications of a more collaborative process where rewards are shared. I think if you are motivating people to do what they want, you (or the group you are in) should get a bigger reward. Thus, by serving a lot of people and making them want to express themselves and be themselves and do what they want, you and your peers get a bigger chunk of the pie?

Hmm... It sounds like you want to be a motivational speaker, or a mentor, somewhat? Or, within a group, a manager?

But who should get the larger piece of the pie? The motivator, or the ones doing the art...? I really don't know; my own leaning would, I think, be to give the greater rewards to those who make the art itself, rather than those motivating the art. But that may stem from bias on my side.

I'm still thinking about it, thanks for helping me organize my thoughts.

That, at least, I'm glad to be doing. ^_^

Thus in my game, the player is the architect of a happy society, not really a productive or powerful society. Thus its not a game of producing industry, or crafting fortresses, but rather a game where the player serves a community and caters to its needs.

I will say that, as described, this does sound like a pretty cool, or at least interesting, focus for a game, and one that might be enjoyed by the "wholesome game" community.

(Not a game that would appeal to me, personally--it doesn't sound like a genre that I happen to like--but that's irrelevant. I am, after all, only one potential audience-member.)
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2023, 12:16:02 PM »

I don't know that specific situation, but if I gather correctly that you directly asked someone to follow you, then that might be seen by some as a bit abrasive--perhaps a bit demanding.

This was a developer who followed me back, I was asking him for a retweet. This game developer has never hit like or retweeted me ever in all the years we followed each other. I have retweeted and hit like for him on many occasions. Does he think he's BETTER THAN ME?! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

---

I've always wanted to inspire people to do great work. I feel that I've been given a bad shake when it comes to the authority figures I've encountered. They want to stop others from rising above them. I'm happy to see people shine, it doesn't make me any smaller to be a kingmaker.

The "wholesome games" people have been somewhat rude to me: I posted some of our games in their discord and they said I wasn't interacting with the community enough, and also removed some of the work because it "wasn't mine" even though it was.

I think the "cozy games" people are a bit of a warmer audience that actually like me, they seem to be good people.
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jmas
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2023, 07:23:52 AM »

That feels pretty weird. But just commissioning is normal, nothing wrong with that. If someone likes a worker from Fiverr and wants to contract them then that's fine if that's how they met. But stuff like that is usually done off Fiverr.
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Thaumaturge
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« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2023, 02:04:23 AM »

(Sorry for the delay in response! ^^; )

This was a developer who followed me back, I was asking him for a retweet. This game developer has never hit like or retweeted me ever in all the years we followed each other. I have retweeted and hit like for him on many occasions. Does he think he's BETTER THAN ME?! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

I have a few thoughts here:

First, from my point of view, my liking and retweeting someone's work doesn't entitle me to likes or retweets from them. I like and retweet because I like and want to share their stuff; that doesn't imply that they'll like or want to share my stuff.

Second, some people follow-back as a matter of course, even if they don't actually have much interest in the work of the people who follow them.

(There may be a number of reasons for this, from algorithmic concerns, to fear of the follower unfollowing, to fear of being seen as stand-offish, to a sense that it's socially required--and perhaps other causes besides.)

And finally, well, I feel that people generally have final say over what goes into their feed: if they don't want something there, then they don't have to have it there.

I've always wanted to inspire people to do great work.
...
I'm happy to see people shine, it doesn't make me any smaller to be a kingmaker.

That is good to read! ^_^

I feel that I've been given a bad shake when it comes to the authority figures I've encountered. They want to stop others from rising above them.

I'm very sorry to read it!

Of course, I can't speak much beyond that--I don't know who those authority figures were, what cultures they came from, how they acted, how you acted, etc. etc.

The "wholesome games" people have been somewhat rude to me: I posted some of our games in their discord and they said I wasn't interacting with the community enough, and also removed some of the work because it "wasn't mine" even though it was.

I think the "cozy games" people are a bit of a warmer audience that actually like me, they seem to be good people.

I'm sorry to read of the former, but glad to read of the latter!

Again, I really can't speak to why it might be so in your experience, of course.

That feels pretty weird. But just commissioning is normal, nothing wrong with that. If someone likes a worker from Fiverr and wants to contract them then that's fine if that's how they met. But stuff like that is usually done off Fiverr.

I'm not sure that I follow--could you elaborate, please?

As to things being usually done off of Fiverr, why so? Especially when the site provides tools like conflict resolution options (including the possibility of refunding payment should the job fall through entirely).
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2023, 08:41:06 AM »


I have a few thoughts here:

First, from my point of view, my liking and retweeting someone's work doesn't entitle me to likes or retweets from them. I like and retweet because I like and want to share their stuff; that doesn't imply that they'll like or want to share my stuff.

Its not that I feel entitled to get a retweet, how am I supposed to make friends with other developers? What is the procedure for that? If they don't look at my feed and just follow back to seem nice but in the end they don't care about me or what I'm working on then how am I supposed to actually have a meaningful friendship with anyone? So then I start to get nasty which usually gets them to pay attention to me more than just being friendly. Its a two way street: If I'm to be sociable and nice, I expect the rest of the community to be sociable and nice... Right?
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Thaumaturge
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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2023, 02:17:22 AM »

Again, sorry for the delay in response!

To answer your question... I don't know. Without going and examining how you're interacting, and who you're interacting with it's hard to say where you might be going wrong. (And even then, I'm no expert on this stuff, so there's no guarantee that I would have an answer even if I did examine those things.)

All that I can tell you comes from my own anecdotal experience: for me at least, friendships tend to work best when they happen naturally, rather than being actively sought.

I might suggest just replying to their tweets (where you want to, without forcing yourself), and taking it from there. And if they don't seem interested in talking, then so it goes.

And, well, if you don't find friendships, keep exploring other developers! There are lots out there--you may yet find some with whom you resonate!

Its not that I feel entitled to get a retweet, ...

I mean, from your description, it sounds like you retweeted this person's stuff, then expected them to retweet yours when asked.
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2023, 12:06:44 PM »

I guess its sort of semantic: respect is a 2 way street, I can't build a community out of people who never initiate any kind of interaction with me. I don't like how a lot of the devs I've been exposed to feel their stuff is to be respected and shared, but don't really care about anyone else's work, or my work. Am I entitled to a retweet? No. But are they entitled to my respect?

It seems like a lot of devs treat me like some kind of fan and not a peer if that makes sense.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 12:15:03 PM by michaelplzno » Logged

michaelplzno
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« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2023, 12:29:55 PM »

Am I entitled to the Retweet, of course not, but my own truth is that I cannot respect people who do not respect me back. One way to show respect is to share my work. If I'm not feeling the love, I very quickly stop acting friendly on my end.

If I give someone a flower and they just toss it aside and tell me to go away, don't expect more flowers.
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Thaumaturge
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« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2023, 01:11:20 AM »

I guess its sort of semantic: respect is a 2 way street, I can't build a community out of people who never initiate any kind of interaction with me.

Sure--that just means that it's time to go and look for other people, I would say.

It seems like a lot of devs treat me like some kind of fan and not a peer if that makes sense.

I mean, not really?

To some degree, "fan" is the baseline default: if you're interested in their work, then you are de facto a fan; if they're interested in your work, then they're a fan of yours in return. And you being a fan of them doesn't require that they be a fan of you.

Being a peer doesn't mean retweeting what someone posts just because they're in the same field as you, I would say.

One way to show respect is to share my work.

You see, here I disagree.

Retweeting someone has an effect on one's timeline; to retweet every peer would result in a cluttered mess of a timeline, a timeline pretty much unusable.

Retweets are then, I think, more exception than rule: they're for things that either one particularly wants on one's timeline, for one's followers to see, or for things that one feels it important to share.
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2023, 10:05:55 PM »

I find devs who only have their own work on their timeline pretty sus. It may be less cluttered, but its also indicative of a self important dev who thinks their own stuff is all that matters.

Also, how am I supposed to make friends with devs?

There is an inherent "MINE" phase that all 2 year olds go through, and sadly some pro devs are like that with their timeline. I'd rather have my "cluttered" timeline and be generous with friendly devs than be a tightwad who values the beauty of their own reflection.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2023, 10:12:39 PM by michaelplzno » Logged

Montsnoo
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« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2023, 12:47:08 AM »

Well, there's two sides to the coin. It's kind of cool to be independent and self-sufficient. But on the other hand society and some company of common inetes is much better and more profitable. You can always share, exchange ideas, make a collaboration, build some mutually beneficial relationships.
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