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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperArt (Moderator: JWK5)Art is Cool?!
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2024, 03:45:44 AM »

your game has only this amount of reviews despite being free.

at some point you just gotta take the stats for its value. it just means that people aren't interested.
And if you art was "virtuous" or unique, people would have given it a chance.
Even the stupid system as "likes" in social media have an importance as it gauges the amount interest people have with your work and from what i've seen you don't get a lot and you should just take as a statistic.
you struggle to even get at 100 likes and you can't concede to the fact that you art isn't good enough.
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And surely my art isn't that bad

I'm not willing to concede that my art isn't of high enough quality to be popular

your art isn't good enough in a lot of aspects and as Mark Mayers told you:
The only one preventing you from your goals is yourself
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2024, 04:56:07 AM »

For some time, I was unable to access Steam, indicating a form of gatekeeping. It seems we must accept the gatekeepers' judgment that my art is subpar. I believe if I were perceived as "cooler," my art might be seen differently, which makes it difficult for me to accept their mysterious algorithm designed to deter bad actors. There are rumors in the industry that it categorizes games based on studio size, but these are unconfirmed.

Despite this, evidence suggests that my games and art are not considered good or cool, judging by the number of likes received. I question the fairness of this metric, yet I cannot prove its bias. For instance, content that gains popularity on Twitter often doesn't resonate with me as quality art; it's typically filled with divisive rhetoric. Yet, it garners likes. Systemically, some things are deemed "cooler."

Even if I had impressive statistics, likes, and numbers, my art would likely still be labeled "bad" because they are just likes, and some might question their importance.

However, my initial assertion remains: my art is not considered cool. In order to be cool, I could perhaps create controversial art, or generally imitate others that would attract attention on social media platforms.

Coolness seems to require such a degree of conformity that it eventually influences others to conform as well.

As stated in the original post, "art is cool" doesn't necessarily depend on theoretical knowledge or practice. Even perfect adherence to conventional standards doesn't guarantee recognition. It's the elusive "coolness" factor that counts, as measured by likes.

Certainly, having influential connections can facilitate gaining likes on social networks, but it appears my perceived lack of coolness is a barrier.

And just to be clear: it's totally my own doing to decide to be or not to be cool.

Here's one from the "Insane Game of Chess" Playlist:




Edit: But don't say my art isn't good enough, just say I'm not cool, I can take that.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2024, 05:19:16 AM by michaelplzno » Logged

b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2024, 05:18:05 AM »

For some time, I was unable to access Steam, indicating a form of gatekeeping. It seems we must accept the gatekeepers' judgment that my art is subpar. I believe if I were perceived as "cooler," my art might be seen differently, which makes it difficult for me to accept their mysterious algorithm designed to deter bad actors. There are rumors in the industry that it categorizes games based on studio size, but these are unconfirmed.
Steam greenlight system started in 2012 and ended in 2017. Up until 2012 yeah there was gatekeeping.
Once greenlight system was introduced, the gatekeepers would have been your potential audience, not your fictional "elite" that you to cope for the fact that you seemingly can't pierce.

the issue is that whenever someone tells you something negative about your art or game, you go into complexes explanations that just serve to deny the core issue.
It just seems you're unable to admit yourself that you have a very small audience, and that's the reason i initally asked you who is your public and who are you trying to reach. You gotta know how to market your game because the visuals aren't giving you any advantage at all.

Basically you're just remaining in complete denial and it sure is reassuring for yourself to believe that "the elite" is gatekeeping you.
This way it's not your fault if you're failing, and you can keep your little ego safe.
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2024, 05:25:21 AM »

where in that post do I mention the elite, or that the algorithms were wrong, or that the gatekeepers were wrong?

I recommend you read more carefully.
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2024, 05:43:21 AM »

so now you want a godlfish type of conversation and discard whatever existed before? lol
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2024, 05:46:41 AM »





I'm not cool, you win, the system is right to demand conformity and weed out the weirdos. I can't make it clearer that you are the winners, and I am the loser.

I can't stand conforming to a system that doesn't care about me but that is totally my choice, my losing choice.

Plzno: don't say my art is bad unless you want to provide a better explanation than "it's not popular."
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2024, 05:52:06 AM »

you art is bad because you're working within a particular set of codes without being sufficiently literate on the inner rules or norms of said codes.
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2024, 05:57:48 AM »

That's a sentence.

All I can do is take that in and do my best version of whatever I think that would be.






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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2024, 06:03:05 AM »

too bad you have room temperature IQ
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2024, 06:06:45 AM »

Is that a cold room temperature, or HOT HOT HOT?



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michaelplzno
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« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2024, 09:14:47 AM »

More of my uncool aesthetic, ignoring norms, full of ignorance, stupidity, and just general poor taste My Word!

Hot Shit: The One Man Band (With a Tie)

For those of you who need a clue:

Yes I listened to the Clue movie soundtrack while I drew this, and though my drawing space was invaded, Communism was a red herring.

We have a lot of what Mark Doomlaser would call "Shit Music" A Flute stuck up the guy's butt, a bass guitar, a yellow piano, and a lute. This musician is trying to grab the very cleft of musical composition itself (depicted in red and pink.)





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Schoq
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« Reply #71 on: November 24, 2024, 11:05:04 AM »

I'm not cool, you win, the system is right to demand conformity and weed out the weirdos. I can't make it clearer that you are the winners, and I am the loser.
You can't hide behind this one either.
Indie games is a field where personality doesn't have to matter at all: many developers are seclusive and private, yet make games that resonate with many people. The scene in general is also packed with people who are "weird" by any measurement, in both good and bad ways.
"I'm just too weird and unusual to be received well in a creative field" is the worst excuse I've heard.


If reactions to your work that aren't from a family member are so uncomfortable to you then maybe you should just keep to that bubble?

I've often spent a ton of time and effort on pieces of art with an intended audience of a dozen people, or even just me and one other person, just because it means something to us and our personal history and because I enjoy and can't live without creating things. Something to add to the canon of our little art world which won't make sense or likely have much value to anyone outside of it. There's nothing wrong with this.

A child's drawing can be the most important piece of art a parent is presented with that year and nobody should be upset that it's not special to anyone else.

You obviously haven't depended financially on the reception of anything you've made, and I think you should just enjoy the luxury of getting to spend however much time you want on making things for fun (I sure as hell treasure what few hours a week I can dedicate towards my hobbies, and I'd love to be able to give some of them away to more talented friends in less comfortable situations).
I'd question the attitude of not even wanting to put in the hours of "unfun" practice and study to get better, but you can do what you want as long as you keep expectations realistic.
Just stop nonsensically expecting others to be impressed with or interested in you or your work when as far as I can tell every single person taking time out of their day to comment is met with a variation of "actually you're wrong because my dad or wife said it's a work of genius".
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« Reply #72 on: November 24, 2024, 11:57:22 AM »

Is that Glenn Quagmire as a girl, playing the guitar in one hand and the accordion in the other?
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #73 on: November 24, 2024, 12:15:17 PM »

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If reactions to your work that aren't from a family member are so uncomfortable...

Who said that they make me uncomfortable? "Draw inside the lines," "the algorithm says you're unpopular, and that's final." You're entitled to that reaction, and it doesn't bother me, but I also don't think those critiques are particularly constructive.

If you expect an artist to take all feedback as equally meaningful, and any artist who defends their approach with "well, that doesn't help me because... many great artists despise drawing inside the lines, and the same art posted by two different people yields different results from the algorithm" makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps you shouldn't offer feedback.

Not all critiques are created equal. And I'm aware that "my mom likes it" isn't a valid defense. However, your suggestion of "suffer for it" isn't a solution in my view. As I've said, you win: the algorithm and all metrics indicate my art is poor. I hope it pleases you that I'm "just privileged to create what you consider trash, and that none of it matters." I don't understand why it's so important for you that I concede and admit my art is deficient to having a wider appeal.

I genuinely believe my art deserves a broader audience than it receives, and if I am to change around what I do to conform, I'm not really happy with the result either. It doesn't unsettle me for you to label it as trash, but if you can offer something constructive, I'll strive to improve—beyond the comments here, where J-Snake was the only one who offered anything remotely helpful for my growth.

@Foxwarrior -> You are wrong to encourage me apparently, lmao.
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #74 on: November 24, 2024, 12:26:21 PM »

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If reactions to your work that aren't from a family member are so uncomfortable...

"Draw inside the lines," and that's final."

btw you suck at reading and just misinterpret what i've told you because i never told you to draw inside the lines alone.

Quote
the main issue with your art and the reason people tells you it's childish is because of inconsistencies you find in kids drawings. (i just circled a few)
-inconsistent trace lines width, lines that are supposedly to be straight but not.
-Faded or Uneven Colors  (use another medium or buy some good good quality markers)
-Stepping Off the Edge
-smudge of colors
-inexistent visible composition

i gave you reasons on why people might find you art childish and all you took from it as an order instead of looking at maybe why people react this way.
i gave you a feedback and you took it as an attack. the problem is you.
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #75 on: November 24, 2024, 12:31:45 PM »

and you also act as a child.


3 likes, your mom your dad and your wife?
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #76 on: November 24, 2024, 12:32:29 PM »

I told you that feedback didn't resonate with me, and that polishing line quality is not something that is important to my creative vision. Then you said a ton of personal stuff about how I wasn't talented and have low IQ and so on.

The problem is you.
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #77 on: November 24, 2024, 12:57:32 PM »

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Schoq
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« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2024, 01:42:21 PM »

Who said that they make me uncomfortable?
It's obvious enough. I'm not only talking about specific critique that you've gotten hung up on.
I haven't offered any mostly because with this kind of abstract drawing there's absolutely nothing I can point at that I might feel is a mistake or could be improved that the artist (if he were so minded, and you are) can't just brush off with "actually that's on purpose, it's supposed to be like that" and that's the end of the exchange. Pointless, as you've shown.

Check your glasses because I suggested the opposite of suffering for it and I haven't labeled anything trash (if three people genuinely love something you made it's a treasure to at least three people.)
I'm suggesting from experience a different way to relate to the creative drive that I think would be less frustrating for you.
You said you want to have fun when you draw so just have fun and take it as a bonus when someone else takes joy in it with you!
None of this is to say it's impossible for anything you create to find this wider audience that you apparently think you deserve either, but going about it as if it's some kind of given if only a few of the right people would look at it with the right eyes to realize that it's actually the coolest thing ever is as unhealthy as it is obnoxious.
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2024, 06:24:41 AM »

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The response to drawing is related to the emotions and experience of the individual, and is wholely apart, so far as I know, from the teaching of art. Yet I do not believe art can go very far unless the artist has some sort of an understanding of this response. An artist can go all his life without realizing why his work does not appeal. Even successful artists may not really know why their work does appeal, though they thank heaven it does.

To understand why a drawing does or does not appeal, we must recognize a certain ability that is developed in every normal individual from early childhood through adult life. The term “intelligent perception” I think comes as close as any to describing this faculty. …

The minute the spectator sees a change of proportion, distortion, change of form, color, texture, he realizes something is wrong. The cleverest imitation imitation will not fool him. The dummy in the department store window is a dummy to everyone. …

We artists cannot ignore this intelligent perception and expect to secure intelligent response, or even favorable response, to our work. Make up your mind that your audience will react to your work just as it does to life itself. Intelligent perception finds only truth convincing. The layman does not need to know anything of art to know whether he likes your work or not. We can use all the arguments, alibis, and defenses in the world; we can explain ourselves hoarse; but we cannot affect something so deeply imbedded in human consciousness. If what we say in paint is untrue, in color values or effect, the spectator feels it, and there is nothing we can do to convince him otherwise.
source: Successful Drawing by  Andrew Loomis
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