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[droqen]

---> currently in progress and I suck at making things not memory hogs

Teeny-tiny download for anyone who really really wants to give it a try

...and by teeny-tiny I mean like 8MB or something.

Here's the download! Warning: For some reason it didn't work on my dad's computer, so maybe you need python or something. It may have just been badly downloaded. I downloaded this file myself from this exact link and it works for me so, uh, sorry if it doesn't work.

Download In Tandem 0.21 (rar, exe only)


1 2
3 4
1: Rotor-chopping action!
2: Dropping a couple bombs! ( also, only ONE LIFE LEFT D: )
3: Killing the helicopter as the tank! :D
4: Alternate colour scheme! Tell me if you like it! ( plus, helicopter about to die )

Features!

>> Vector Graphics (because I can't draw)
>> Co-op Gameplay (for 2 players, on the same computer; 1 player can also go it alone, each player only needs one hand to play after all!)
>> Awesome SQUARE EXPLOSIONS (because circles would require more work but mostly because they look... well. Kind of awesome.)
>> A very mysterious scoring system that is definitely not straightforward to people who know the maths. (pictured in bottom-left)

>> 2 Player Entities (Heli, Tank)
>> 2 Enemy Entities (Mosquito, Landmine to be changed)
>> Random curvy terrain it's so pretty
>> NO health! Those bars may be misleading. One hit, and you're toast!

>> Current concern: Helicopter is very vulnerable. Not too much of a concern though. Tank tends to be the one left alone at the end, however.

>> Colour Scheme to be changed, probably (changed to this current one from a darker and less colourful one, I'm not sure if I'm going to change back or just tweak it from here)

Finally: Written in Python, using PyGlet, with an additional little code snippet copied from someplace.

[Montoli]

Nice!  Hooray for vector graphics (or creative styles in general) to hide art talent!

Question - is one player the helicopter and the other the tank?  Or is the 2nd player something else?

I like the "out of this world" vector look.

[droqen]

Yep, one player is the Helicopter and the other is the Tank. Each requires (hopefully) only one hand to play, so lonely people can still go it alone!

Thanks, glad you like it :] It's my first try at this vector graphics style, and I think it's turning out rather nicely, especially for what I needed!

[YagerX]

Horay for co-op!
Looking cool so far!

[droqen]

DevLog is for talking to myself!

>> Mosquito (small flyer) Enemy is good. Can be taken out by both players and its random movement sometimes looks like it's trying to dodge! Good times. Minor annoyance is all it is, and all it's supposed to be.

>> Rocket Launcher (soldier on the ground) is really tough on the poor Heli player. The rockets move really fast and there's little warning. Plus it is wasteful to bomb them (there are tons of them) and the Tank can't really get to them quickly. -- I should reduce numbers.

>> Bunker is nice, it mostly seems like a detriment when the Heli is too busy dodging and realizes 'oh crap a bunker!' (those are the grey things that don't move but destroy the Tank on contact)

>> Big flyers that spam missiles are pretty good. I like 'em. Possible for the Heli to take out with care, easy for the Tank to take out (although they tend to move around a lot).


Plus I need to work on stuff like bosses, more enemies, maybe some drops and pickups.


Helicopter seems to die a lot more than the Tank. Is this a bad thing?

[Montoli]

Re: Helicopter deaths vs. tank deaths

[standard disclaimer:  I don't know anything about your game except for the screenshots and things you've posted, so sorry in advance for all the things I suggested that are doubtlessly incompatible with the experience you have in your mind that you're working towards building]

Depends a lot on how you want the game to go.  The key, I think, will be in making sure the helicopter pilot doesn't feel like they're not helping the team.  Both players should feel like they are helping.


Some ways this could work:

• Helicopter is harder.  But since both have to survive to win the level, the game is as much about keeping the helicopter alive as anything else.  (Might risk having the game shift more towards "escort" style gameplay, but maybe that's ok?)
• Helicopter is more fragile, but does something the tank can't?  Maybe the helicopter is the only one that can land and rescue hostages a-la choplifter?
  
• • Hostages could be required mission objectives, so the tank would have to keep the helicopter alive so it could complete the mission
  • Alternately, the hostages could be, say, powerups.  Which only the helicopter can collect.  So the helicopter is more fragile, but maybe is the only one that can heal the tank, or collect more ammo or superbombs or whatever.
• Helicopter is more fragile, but has less to deal with, and an easier time avoiding some types of things. (maybe make some enemies that only affect the tank, like enemy tanks?)
• Helicopter is harder, but does more damage.  So it's a glass cannon kind of thing.  It has more to worry about dodging, but if it gets lined up right, it can really unload on something?  (Maybe make a few high-hp enemies, to highlight this benefit?)
• A more heavy handed approach:  Make some enemy types that can only be killed by the helicopter.  Like a tank with a big shield on the front, but no armor on top or behind.  Hard for your tank to take down, but easy for the chopper?

As a general rule, you want both players to feel like they are contributing.  The easiest way to do that is probably to make sure that there is at least one challenge or enemy that shows up reasonably frequently, that one player is much better suited to handling.

Do those help?

[droqen]

Yes! That is good. Nice points. A bunch of things I have had in mind and it is nice to hear it again, and other things are fresh new ideas which I appreciate


>> I like the hostages idea, although the helicopter currently handles in a rather frightening way to go so close to the ground D: (plus the rocketsoldiers are unfriendly). I'll try to figure something out; I was thinking about powerups in the air that could only be picked up by the Helicopter.

>> Right now, the Helicopter deals with dodging stuff, and positioning itself properly to attack. So it's all about position. The Tank is similar, except the player only needs to position the cursor if that makes sense (to shoot, and to laser down projectiles). The Tank itself is reliant on both players' protection. Tank player does little to no dodging, though.

>> If the Heli is really hard to play and deals more damage, I'm just a little worried the Tank player will feel a bit useless. That's my main concern on that end. The Heli does tend to deal the best damage -- with its awesome bombs.

>> I have a really heavy-bunkery enemy who CAN be taken out by the Tank but it's incredibly ammo inefficient. Heli is much better (if it can get into position)


Yeah. Those did help! :]
Also, eliciting some thoughts in the form of responses are good.

I do want both players to feel useful -- and equal, at least overall.

One thing I plan to do is create some enemies/projectiles that are directed at the Tank such that he can personally do something about them via lasering or shooting them down.


And in each boss fight I plan to highlight both of them somehow, and I will do what I can to create a variety of enemies that require various combined tactics -- some of which will highlight one player's ability more than the other.


[[ Edit. Currently I feel like the Heli is doing more burning lives and occasionally saving the Tank from otherwise nigh-insurmountable obstacles, while the Tank is doing most of the actual destruction of common foes. I'll do what I can to remedy that with two new enemies: something that fires at the Tank (for it to laser projectiles) and something that allows the Heli to get more use out of its choppablades. ]]

[Montoli]

Random spur of the moment idea:  What if there was some co-op element involved in some kind of bonus action?  Like if collecting powerups required the helicopter to pick them up, or shoot them out of the air or something... and then the tank would have to roll over and catch them before they hit the ground?  Or maybe vice versa, where if the tank collected a powerup, it would launch it straight up into the air, and the chopper had to catch it before it hit the ground?

No idea if this would be fun or not, just happened to have it while I was looking over your screenshots.  But it seems like it would at least be something that both players would be required to be engaged for, so it would give them both something to do?

-Montoli, who really likes assymetrical coop games

[droqen]

Montoli, I'm glad that you, too, love asymmetrical co-op!

---> That's a good idea. I nad something only slightly like that in the previous incarnation of the game: a floating, powerup-carrying contraption that could only easily be destroyed by the tank, and if the slowly falling powerup were hit by damage or an enemy, it would be lost. It could be snatched from the air, or protected from flying enemies whilst it fell. The tank would get it easily once it hit the ground.

Out of curiousity, why haven't you tried the game?

[Montoli]

erm.  Embarrassingly, because until you just asked, I somehow missed the download link.  You know, the one you put in the second paragraph, in big bold text?  Yeah.  That one. 

*ahem*

Downloading it now...  I'll post [informed] feedback after I have a chance to give it a shot.  (I have a friend coming over tomorrow night, maybe we'll give it a whirl!)

[droqen]

Hehe

No problem :]

It's not incredibly obvious in here because I have a feedback thread TOO, so I'm trying to keep this one more devloggy and the other one more feedbacky (it has a more obvious download link).

Anyway, looking forward to some awesome true 2-player feedback from you!

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Should I keep the play a consistent flow, or break it up with some kind of 'this is what happened and maybe buy stuff' menu? If I did that, I could have it switch between colour schemes (as well as background sets and stuff) in a nicer way.

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Added a little 'bomber' enemy.
Small, quick, and frighteningly tough.
Easiest for the tank to take out by focusing the cursor on it to cause it to self-destruct with its bombs.
Can also be taken out with one Heli bomb, but it's pretty small.
Am going to add some diamonds soon. Everyone loves floating gems!

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New version! Yay!

0.21 or whatever