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[J-Snake]

Just for clarity and to make sure we are all playing the same game.

We can only play the same game when we meet on the metaphoric 2D plane. That is why I suggested to keep consciousness out of this topic, especially since AI is on the 2D plane.

[michaelplzno]

As one of the little brains on the 2d plane, even we would begin to suspect foul play if our measuring sticks started to flip out and behave weirdly. So, while the 2d dumdums are limited, the 3d spiritual gurus would have a lot of constraints on what they can do in the 2d world as well... or else the whole thing will just tear apart.

That is, while the 3d people know the 2d world and the 3d world, the 3d people are limited by the 2d world's rules AND the 3d world's rules.

Also, as in plato's cave, it is possible for the 2d people to sus out how the shadows move. So I'm not really seeing much incentive to move up a dimension. Maybe if you get a bigger paycheck lol.

[J-Snake]

So I'm not really seeing much incentive to move up a dimension. Maybe if you get a bigger paycheck lol.

A bigger paychek is on the 2D plane. So don't worry. You don't have to move up;)

Consider it this way: for many things that you do and the way you are, there is always a 'better' way. Yet, what you do still holds its own value. It’s like 2D games—you can explore and create endlessly within 2D space without ever exhausting its possibilities. While there are concepts that work better in 3D, they still have unique worth in 2D. 2D just isn’t fulfilling once you realize that the full potential only reveals itself in 3D. But the reverse can be true as well; there are things that are better suited for 2D.

On that note, a great person is much like a great game designer—they know how and when to navigate between 2D and 3D spaces to unlock the greatest value.

And remember, no one will punish you for staying on the 2D plane either. Otherwise, you would not have free will.

[michaelplzno]

no one will punish you for staying on the 2D plane either.

It seems like there are 3d people who do like to play pranks on us 2d boobs. It stinks when I just want to live my life, and I got some bozo telling me he can't talk to me because he has Elon Musk on the other line.

I'm tired of taking so much shit from everyone, and being the butt of the joke, like I'm some crippled child who just can't be enlightened like the rest of the big brains of the world.

[J-Snake]

Elon Musk is a 2D person. The probability to meet a 3D person is extremely low, btw.

[michaelplzno]

Then this is all theoretical navel gazing because there are so few 3d people, and I don't want to become one.

It sounds profoundly lonely to be a 3d person.

[J-Snake]

Trying to relate consciousness to the Turing Test is theoretical navel-gazing.

[michaelplzno]

Not all of us are giga-3d brains j-snake, we have to talk about something. I hope you enjoy living in your high tower far away from normal pea-brained people.

[J-Snake]

Not all of us are giga-3d brains j-snake

Correct. That's why you should not relate consciousness to the Turing Test. Stick to what the measuring stick can measure.

[michaelplzno]

what the measuring stick can measure.

The more we speak, the more convinced I am that you have never seen a measuring stick or know how to use one.

[J-Snake]

So you don't see how you are suggesting a magic measuring stick to measure consciousness in the Turing Test.

[michaelplzno]

Conciousness is some kind of sacred cow to you, that you meditate and transcend this tiny dimension to experience the divine experience of conciousness transcending reality time space and dimension. So, you are making a circular case that consciousness needs magic to be measured: to you it is already magical. Such reasoning kills the discussion quickly because you just "boom ... that's '3d stuff' beyond measurement in the 2d plane" at the drop of a hat when it suits you.

You simply state that conciousness cannot be measured without proof because "you don't have to prove anything" I happen to think it is more measurable than you. I also see the value of proving stuff, and many prominent scientists have made a name for themselves by proving things.

You can have a nice meditation on the cosmos and keep all those answers to yourself I guess.

[J-Snake]

You step outside the realm of science the moment you attempt to measure consciousness using the Turing Test. Speaking as a 2D person, your case is already closed, while mine remains open.

If we assume for a moment that consciousness is part of the cognitive feedback loop, it would already demonstrate that a computer cannot become conscious. A conscious computer would act beyond its program and inputs, effectively ceasing to function as a computer.
We can only grasp the premise by 'looking up.' While this may seem mystical to many, it is as real as your own existence.

[michaelplzno]

You step outside the realm of science the moment you attempt to measure consciousness using the Turing Test.

According to your arbitrary assumptions, which is what most of what your rhetoric is. You 3d guys get to win arguments "because I say so."

Powerful stuff.

[J-Snake]

According to the scientific method, and the scientific method is not an arbitrary assumption.

[michaelplzno]

so you say.

[Golds]

I feel pretty good about artificial intelligence, actually

[Golds]

My satire of the current public conversation about AI:

[Golds]

We've actually been working on an Artificial Intelligence Technology project for over a year. It's called Dream Factory, and I hope to get it out to more testers soon. If you're interested, email me at [email protected].





Here is a sketch we made in an early version of Dream Factory that I still think is funny — who is the REAL Alexander?