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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsBelow the surface
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Hempuli‽
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« on: August 07, 2009, 02:50:46 AM »

These DevLogs seem all trendy now, so maybe I'll add my own here as well.

BtS is a retro-themed metroidvania about a scientist-fighter robot who's landed on a lonely rock planet in order to check out a mysterious abandoned research laboratory (or something along those lines). The plotline consists at first of following the trails of the previous scientist robots and trying to figure out why they disappeared. A bit later the player must explore the history of an ancient culture, realize that it got wiped out by a massive lifeform found deep under the surface of the planet, and then, unsurprisingly, beat that thing-o. The whole story is one very big cliché, but that's perhaps the thing I'm aiming for.

I started working on this in may, and in the beginning the progress was rather rapid. The game map is now finished (the whole game happens in one, terribly big (12.000 x 8.580 pixels) frame), though it will require some serious redesigning because I didn't have any idea of the 'story' when I started to form it. Massive inspiration got from ArneLurks Exile redesign concept document (http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/exile/exile-ish.htm).

here's a tiny pic of the map:


Currently, what the game needs is rebalancing, more enemies (about 30 enemies around currently) and some smaller things. There're also some speed issues, which I have to iron out. I guess I'll get this ready before December.
Noby (who has done musics for some of my other games too) is composing a rather delightful soundtrack, and the sound effects will be good SFXR quality.

The game features about 60-70 collectables in total, with 5 different weapons, about 11 other main items and various additions to these items. There isn't any kind of talking system in the game, and all information comes in signs and computer messages (due to my laziness).

Some time ago I posted a tileset art request on the Art forums. I really needed tilesets for the game at that time, and I still need. Due to most of the game being full of placeholder tiles, there's not many screenshots to show. Here are some anyway (note that the background graphics are mostly missing and/or WIP):

The very first WIP screen that I used to lure tileset artists.

The 'inhabited' area of the game.

The only tileset I actually got from someone, this being my Friend Sampsa 'Sampe' Saari.

Yay, temple area.

metroidish stuff.

So really, if you think you could do a tileset (the number of tiles needed is quite big, but it would be mostly copying old tiles and slightly editing them), PM me. Any help would be really appreciated, because of the huge size of the game area.
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Poor Lazlo
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 03:19:04 AM »

I love me some metroidvania, so I'm sure I'll enjoy this. Smiley

Actually, the thing I most enjoy about this type of game is seeing a big picture of the entire 2D world, so you are already off to a winner. The character looks cool also.

Also, caves are the best. The best. All games should have caves.
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alspal
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 04:32:26 AM »

This seems like its going to be awesome arvi
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moi
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 04:38:30 AM »

looking good mang
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ChevyRay
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 05:00:47 AM »

Oh wow, that's a huge map already. I love the non-uniform look of the map, how everything seems more organic and natural, not all blocky with uniform sized rooms, etc. Makes exploring much more fun, and areas become more memorable and distinguished.

Great job so far Smiley
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fraxcell
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 05:38:06 AM »

I love the look of those monsters you have, and the inhabited area with the computer thing. I can't wait to start exploring that massive map.
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 06:14:07 AM »

I said I'd do a tileset once I saw some of the existing ones and got a feel for what the visual style should be... I think I have a good idea now. This will be a busy month for me, but I'll do what I can in a few weeks time.

I'd love to see some of the current tilesets though.
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 09:30:47 AM »

Really nice style your stuff has, and it's looking great. I'll be waiting for further developments!
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JaJitsu
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 10:26:16 AM »

Great stuff Hempuli, keep it up!
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Loren Schmidt
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 11:21:38 AM »

This looks pretty solid so far. I'm looking forward to playing it. It's nice to see such a variety of project sizes from you!

So are there any Metroid style doors separating areas which are loaded separately, or is it just one big continuous room?
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Hempuli‽
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 01:26:44 PM »

This looks pretty solid so far. I'm looking forward to playing it. It's nice to see such a variety of project sizes from you!

So are there any Metroid style doors separating areas which are loaded separately, or is it just one big continuous room?

It's just a big continuous room, but there are some doors too. Using one big room makes adding features easier, but is overall a bit stupid choice I guess.
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MaloEspada
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2009, 01:31:16 PM »

One big room? What about the slow down?
Also, is it being coded in what language?
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medieval
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2009, 02:51:33 PM »

most likely MMF2, you could should divide the world into segments and somehow.. load them


you should ask nifflas if you could look into the knytt engine's source (or just ask about his methods)
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Hempuli‽
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 12:53:54 AM »

One big room? What about the slow down?
Also, is it being coded in what language?

MMF 2. I'm using Direct3D and Hardware acceleration, and calculating only the things that are on-screen (this leads to some minor bugs I need to squash), which has caused the slow-down to be minimal even on my own computer, so I guess there wont be any serious problem with that.

@Michael Yamada:
As I said, the slow-down isn't really a problem here...
Knytt used also one big continuous area, though it had even less slow-down because of the scrolling type (I've got Knytt's and Knytt stories' sources). Also, the external loading-based system in Knytt Stories wouldn't really be good because of some of the design choices I made (I need the 'active' area to be as big as possible at the same time). I'll post about those 'design choices' a bit later.

@sergiocornaga: It would really really great if you could do some tiles! I'll post some example tilesets onto this thread later today.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 01:00:37 AM by Hempuli » Logged

Hempuli‽
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 05:59:15 AM »


here're two example tilesets, where I've bordered the "optional" tiles with yellow. If you want to go with as few tiles as possible, I need only those basic turns and such + 45 degree turns and 22,5 degree turns. Remember also that if the texture continues over the tile, you should create more tiles so that you can end the texture to some darker colour, like in the first example.

The 'optional' tiles aren't that important, but always welcomed! Any special background scenery or otherwise useful tiles are always good, and make my job easier. Smiley

(Oh, and if you decide to tile something, try to have that 1 pixel space between the tiles! Makes picking them easier Smiley)

OH! And these are the tileset themes I still need:

-Jungly (or more like grassy)
-Very technic (think of tourian from Super Metroid)
-Underwater (some bluish cave with smooth shapes)
-Basic brown cave (most needed!) (Thanks Cosmic_Fool!)
-Dark, grey cave (used for a very deep pit) (Thanks Cosmic_Fool!)
-Mysterious ruins with abandoned and rusted mechanic stuff
-Rocky, bluish surface area


(No need for this anymore, Cosmic_Fool said he'd do them all.)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 12:10:48 PM by Hempuli » Logged

JaJitsu
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2009, 01:00:48 PM »

If i wasn't so busy i would really want to work on this >.<
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2009, 01:04:23 PM »

I love posts that make me go "Wow..." and that's what the image in your post did. I'm a big fan of Metroidvania games, when they're done well. That map actually reminded me of one I have of the old game, "Below the Root"...even though that looks nothing like it.

Layout and character design look pretty good, and I like that you've actually got a good number of enemies. I'm looking forward to trying this.
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Hempuli‽
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« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2009, 12:31:40 AM »

I love posts that make me go "Wow..." and that's what the image in your post did. I'm a big fan of Metroidvania games, when they're done well. That map actually reminded me of one I have of the old game, "Below the Root"...even though that looks nothing like it.

Layout and character design look pretty good, and I like that you've actually got a good number of enemies. I'm looking forward to trying this.

I'm trying hard to make this good enough - currently it's far from a fair and enjoyable game.
Currently there're about 30 different enemies, but I really gotta do more, because it feels rather weird that you can see the same enemy all around the game world, in differently-themed areas.

About the unfairness, here's a question I'd like to hear some opinions in: What sort of  saving system the game should have? Because of the explorative nature of the game, I wanted the player's ship to be the "safe" place, nd also the only place where you cam save and load. Here are the saving systems I've pondered so far:

1: The player can save wherever he wants, but it costs money and you begin everytime from your ship. You can set teleports separately for some cost too, so that you can also save your position This is what I used at first: I quite liked that you must pay a bit more to save your progress fully. However, this is quite a harsh way of saving, because the player needs to collect money and has to actually do 2 different things while saving; set a teleport and then save. Also many people seem to try to avoid saving because of the cost, which leads to lots of backtracking when they actually die.

2: Same as erlier, but the teleport and save system are integrated. Player can also set teleports without saving. This is what the game uses currently. It's definitely more fair to the player, because now you get to save all your progress at the same time. Also, in case you find yourself in a place too difficult for you, the teleport can be created without actual saving for lower cost. The problem with this is that there's still present the fact that players avoid saving because of the cost. Also some players don't notice the teleporting system (though this can hopefully be avoided with proper tutorial things).

3: Having free save points that save your full progress and position. This is what some testers have wanted, but there are some points why I dislike it. The game's idea is quite much that it becomes rather open in an early stage, so trying to find reasonable spaces between the save points and trying to pace them somehow would be quite hard. Also, because the game wont feature any kind of map you could take a look at every once in a while, some players might get lost and not find the save points when trying to stop playing (I guess there aren't many of those though :D). As a more stupid point, without saving price there wouldn't be much use for the money you collect.

If you have some ideas regarding the save system, please post them! It's be great to find some sort of compromise that'd also be good for the players and not too confusing. Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2009, 08:22:18 AM »

this looks glorious!  Gentleman
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« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2009, 09:13:51 AM »

In terms of saving - When you save, is it a one time save, ala roguelikes? Or can you use it whenever you want, however many times you want, ala mostly everything else? I would do one of the more restrictive save systems, with a quicksave (only loads the next time you play) wherever you wanted.
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