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[Quick-n-Dead]

I'm not going to beat around the bush nor mislead anyone on anything.  If I do, you have my personal permission to slap me blond (I have brown hair).

What are we looking for?  Anyone who has experience and wants to get their foot in on the ground floor of an upstart game developer.

1.)  3d Modeling/Animation/Rigging
2.)  Programmers
3.)  Graphic Artists
4.)  Sound Engineering
5.)  Anything else that I might have forgotten.

Business plan is in the works, website is up and running, business license in the process and a tentative plan on having a basic game demo out June 1st next year.

No one, including those of us on the team already, won't get paid until we have investors and/or have a marketable product.

If you have any advice, it will be greatly appreciated.

We are group of gamers who are coming together to develop games.  We are not young kids nor are we over-the-hill.  Our ages are in the 30-40's range, me being the eldest at 40 and with a few of us being prior military and veterans.

So there is no BS.

Hit me up if you are interested by sending me a PM here on TIGForums.

[John Nesky]

No one... won't get paid until we have investors and/or have a marketable product.

Oh, well in that case, you should put off having a marketable product as long as possible. 

tentative plan on having a basic game demo out June 1st next year.

Nine months until a demo, plus some indeterminate amount of time after that before the marketable product shows up sounds like a good start, but I think you can push it even further.

EDIT: Seriously, nine months with no pay working over the internet with strangers is too slow.

[Quick-n-Dead]

I agree that it is a slow process, but it also boils down to the motivation each person has.

I'm the mechanic of the whole thing.  I turn the screws and put boot to backside.

We have prior military and service veterans of the US Military.  We have Air Force, Army and Navy onboard right now.  When it comes to getting things done, we know how to make sure it gets done.

In all honesty, it can be done in 9 months, even for a small demo.

So, how motivated am I?  That's the question you must ask yourself.

Being nearly broke constantly, and in this economy, I'm more than ready to put everything I've got forward on it.  I, like my friends, are highly motivated to make it work.

And there is something else you can say... At least I am honest about the whole thing when it comes to the money.

[Alec]

I turn the screws and put boot to backside.

I would love to work for you.

[John Nesky]

I am not accusing you of lacking motivation. I am accusing you of planning to take nine months to do what should be done in one month, or less.

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051026/gabler_01.shtml

[Quick-n-Dead]

I appreciate the link.  Plan on reading it through.

And the 9-months was given by someone on the team who said that we could easily get it done in the time frame.

We are pushing for a highly polished demo to present to investors along with our business plan.

Again, I truly appreciate the tips and will definitely read the link you posted.

Thank you.

[John Nesky]

I've heard that more than half of all big game development projects get canceled. And only a few ever make it to "hit" status. That's a lot of invested time that gets wasted, because it's so hard to predict whether a game will be good ahead of time. So basically, you should determine that your game is good as soon as possible, and then IF IT IS, spend the rest of your time trying very hard not to ruin whatever it was that made it fun in the first place (which is a non-trivial task).

[Quick-n-Dead]

We're looking at possibly a FPS with an RPG flavor to it, if that's any hint in the direction we are looking to go.

[moi]

Why waste your time with games when you could be robbing casinos in Vegas?

[ionside]

 
Perhaps it's worth focusing on a 1 or 2 month semi polished prototype, before aiming for a demo.
This way you can be sure the game is going to head in the right direction. And may give any potential volunteers motivation to jump on board.

You have to understand, no matter how much of the leadership skills you have; it's difficult to put a virtual boot to a virtual backside when all the volunteer needs to do is not reply to your emails.

It's great that you've served for your country, I was in the defense force 10+ years ago. But honestly it's not a great selling point to recruit creatives in game development. Many people here are making games for the love of it and don't really want a military structure. They can apply to various commercial game studios for that.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

So, how motivated am I?  That's the question you must ask yourself.

i don't think 'motivated' is the correct word here

if someone really were motivated to make a game without pay over the course of 9 months or more, don't you think they'd make their own game for themselves rather than your game for you?

[Quick-n-Dead]

It's fine that you want to critique the way I go about things, but the point is gentlemen, I'm here to get help on this project.

Either you wish to be part of it or you don't, simple as that.

While you may imply and assume that I will put a military type structure to it, you couldn't be further from the truth of the matter.  The point is that I want to assist in building a company, one that will be profitable for everyone and have fun doing so.

The more people we have working on it, the better chances are that it will happen sooner rather than later.  9-months is doable for at least a semi-polished demo, which would hopefully be enough for investors.

I know for a fact that it can take years to develop a hot game.  I've been gaming longer than most of you have been alive.

The demo will lead into the actual game.  And my team and I are wanting a nicely tuned and polished demo to present to potential investors.

And, the company is going to be employee owned through profit sharing.  We're still in discussion about company shares as a possibility also.

Not everyone is a programmer, not everyone is an artist, not everyone is a 3d modeler, not everyone can write a script, not everyone has a business mind.  That's what a team is that comes together towards a common goal.

No one has read what I said originally...  So, let me edify it for you...

Business plan is in the works, website is up and running, business license in the process and a tentative plan on having a basic game demo out June 1st next year.

It is going to either happen with you or without you.  Choice is yours.

[John Nesky]

I wish you luck, but I think you've come to the wrong forum.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

there's really no right forum for asking strangers to work without pay on someone else's game in the hopes that it'll make money one day.

also, quick-n-dead, don't get too upset, we're just taking you up on your offer of "my personal permission to slap me blond (I have brown hair)." -- if there's something wrong in the responses you're getting, it's not always everyone else, sometimes it can be you.

not all of us are young kids; i'll be 31 this month. and over a lot of those years i've spent a lot of time in game development forums. you have no idea how common this 'i want a team, let's make my idea for a game, i'll direct it and provide the ideas and design, you guys do all the programming and art and such, and we'll split the profits' is. i've literally seen hundreds of these types of threads over the years. they never work out.

[Derek]

Yeah, this is basically every red flag in my book:

We're looking at possibly a FPS with an RPG flavor to it, if that's any hint in the direction we are looking to go.

We are group of gamers who are coming together to develop games.

I'm the mechanic of the whole thing.  I turn the screws and put boot to backside.

No one, including those of us on the team already, won't get paid until we have investors and/or have a marketable product.

1. FPS/RPG = one tough ass game to finished, even for a very experienced team.

2. It does not sound like you guys are very experienced.

3. I don't think the talent you need to pull it off is going to work for free for 9 months when they could be working for money for 9 months... and on a higher profile project.

Don't get me wrong, I obviously have nothing against upstarts.  But what you're doing seems like a classical mistake for an upstart - namely, biting off way more than one is able to currently chew.

[undertech]

Also, you could not have chosen a worse handle for pitching your idea with.

[Quick-n-Dead]

Red flag is someone bullshitting you.

Red flag is someone trying to pull something over on someone.

Red flag is someone making promises they never intended to keep.

Red flag is someone who says they will help and never do.

Red flag is someone who calls their self a friend and stabs you in the back.

Red flag is someone coming here looking for others to join a team and expect to get help.

Red flag is someone who isn't willing to help and only points out the red flags.

There... Is that enough red flags for you?

I see coming here was a mistake.  I thought if you saw that there were prior military and veterans on the team that you would think we had the get it done attitude.

Assuming things only because you are jaded to others coming here and promising big rewards.

I'm not promising anything other than an opportunity to join in on a team with a possibility of making money.  There are no guarantees in game developing.  Games will either be a hit or flop.  We all know this.

We have 3 experience members on the team.

3d/Animation/Rigging
Programmer in C#/C++
Sound Engineer/Composer

That's just 3 of the 5 current members.

My experience in a tiny bit of 3d modeling, but my main background is as a computer technician and web developer.

The first gentleman on the team is the business mind.

Each of the 3 guys above has at least 3 years experience in game development.

So, before you assume that you know this team and the experience we have, maybe you should be asking us questions about how much experience we do have.

A business plan is in the works, we have a website that is being developed and we are in the process of getting a business license.

Sometimes you have to give a lot to gain a little.

I'm putting in a lot of hard work on making this happen.  I'm putting in many hours for making it to happen, plus I work a regular job.

Did you get paid to go to school? No.  Guess what, you put in a lot of work to graduate school.  Mind you, you went to school for years without getting paid for it.

Am I looking for volunteers? HELL NO!  We are wanting team members who want to be on a team and hopefully we all get paid for our hard work.

There are no guarantees in life, you either shit or get off the pot.

[Quick-n-Dead]

Also, you could not have chosen a worse handle for pitching your idea with.

It's my in-game name for Call of Duty 4, Joint Operations, Battlefield 2, Battlefield Vietnam, Red Orchestra, Delta Force Blackhawk Down, Commanche 4, Armored Fist, F16 and Delta Force 2 just to name a few.

I will not make promises that I cannot keep.

[Alec]

Red flag is someone bullshitting you.

Red flag is someone trying to pull something over on someone.

Red flag is someone making promises they never intended to keep.

Red flag is someone who says they will help and never do.

Red flag is someone who calls their self a friend and stabs you in the back.

Red flag is someone coming here looking for others to join a team and expect to get help.

Red flag is someone who isn't willing to help and only points out the red flags.

There... Is that enough red flags for you?

I see coming here was a mistake.  I thought if you saw that there were prior military and veterans on the team that you would think we had the get it done attitude.

[Alec]

Anyways, some advice:

* being a dick to people who have more experience than you in the field you're trying to get into = not a great way to start networking

* a "business license" means nothing - you don't need to be incorporated or anything to make awesome stuff (look at Derek's game Spelunky... he just made it, and released it for free and now he has an XBLA deal) might as well incorporate right before you're going to release something awesome.

* business plan can be "make one cool original game", and that's about it. if the game is actually good/unique enough - you're off to a good start.

* small, unique games are MANY TIMES more effective for newbie teams than some big genre-blending project (FPS+RPG as a description doesn't sound all that unique - what's going to make it stand out next to fallout3, etc?)

* talent > money, but finding talent that will work for nothing is nearly impossible, but getting upset about it doesn't help anyone. I think you can probably only attract people to work for a revenue share agreement if the project or existing creative talent involved is something really, really special. (and you need to be able to explain to prospective collaborators why that is)

* if you're broke and can't get people to work for you for free and can't find talent, try making some small games on your own and see how it goes! you might pick up some awesome new skills along the way.