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[aeiowu]

PROVE your concept with a prototype first.

Agreed. While Glaiel is being a bit terse with you it's because this isn't the first time this has happened here (or anywhere). I regularly have people come up to me with their game ideas and I smile and nod and move on. Not because the ideas are bad, but because of the situation that presents. Having someone with no ability to create games being "the idea man" is a recipe for failure.

That said, if you do have a team, then why not make a prototype with that team? You don't need animators, artists or much of anything other than a programmer to push out a prototype of some kind. What will 4-5 more people really do for your game? You don't _need_ concept art to start a game project, you don't _need_ 200 pages of design documentation, in fact it sounds like the preconceived notion that you _need_ all this stuff before you can _start_ is keeping you from actually _making the game_! Just make the game! If you have a able-bodied programmer what is really stopping you?

If you're as serious as you say, make a prototype of your idea. Do your best to make it in a month. This will force you to focus on what's most important to your game and might even just change the way you think about game development when it's all said and done.

[Triplefox]

Something that comes to mind: the attitude of the most passionate game developers is extremely "can-do." That is to say, if the rest of the team disappeared one day, if the last man left was still tasked to work on the project, that person would do anything in their power to ship it. This was true even within the studio I worked at. The attitude varied from person to person, of course, with the people who were more specialized being less able or interested(perhaps the same thing?) to follow through on such a statement, but the general vibe persisted throughout the team, and it has held true among other developers I've met. The people that can't do this don't fit in, full stop.

It's different from being desperate or fatalistic or saying "that's the way things are," which is a case of having faith in external forces rather than a faith in yourself, and that's more of the attitude I am seeing in these sorts of threads - the idea that if you ask loudly and often enough, somehow the situation will change and you can be pulled along by that momentum, rather than by your internal strength.

And I think, implicitly, the difference in attitude accounts for a lot of the response you're getting. It comes off as someone looking for a shoulder to lean on. But if you're going to make a game, rightfully, you should just go do it and ask for help when you can pinpoint where help is actually needed. It is "independent" game development, after all.

[thewreck]

just read the thread..

here are my tips:

The members you are trying to recruit for your project are your first investors. Like the later investors you are trying to convince to give you capital, these first investors need to be convinced to give you time. Different resource, same problem.

Just imagine doing this same presentation for the capital investors. Do you think they would open up their wallets? No, that is why you are here trying to get help to make a demo!

However, you got the idea right the first time! To convince capital investors, you need a demo (or something else that convinces them), the same goes for time investors.

As a side note, saying that

They can then say that they have developed a game

sounds a bit arrogant. What do you think these people here on the boards are doing? Its not like they have been sitting around fiddling their bellies waiting for someone to offer them a chance at making a game...  

You argue that life if all about risk, and everything is risky anyways, and therefor people should help you out... The problem is surprisingly enough not at all about risk, but the fact that you are tying to argue people into helping you. Given the whole military reference situation, I get the feeling that you are a recruitment officer trying to make me join the army.

What you want to do here is to attract people. That is a completely different thing than what you are doing. You can think of talented developers as an attractive person of whatever gender you prefer. There are a number of strategies you can employ:

* You can be stinking rich and close to death, luring them in due to hopes on getting half when you die.
* You can be stinking rich and pay me to get it on with you, also called prostitution, one of the oldest professions in the history of mankind! (but that is because its a proven recipe!)
* You can use foul play. (warning: might come back to bite you in the ass)
* You can put on your nicest cologne, make that sense of smell go wild with your skill in combining pheromones into a potent mixture!
* Flex your muscles, show us that work you've put into building them!
* Comb your hair, show us that skill in laying those strand of protein in just that perfect way which transfers our mind from the wet time of spring to the warm corner of autumn in one lavish stroke, just the way we want!
* Do a couple of killer jokes! Man, thats a witty guy, mayby our kids will be just as witty?
* Clamp your "STD-free" results card on your chest. A safe bet, always! Now thats risk free!

What you can not do is: (gets abit X-rated towards the end there)
* Put a blind-fold on the person and say schmuck-me, life is full of risks. I could be really hot, oh sure I might have aids, or I might be your dad using a voice-alternating device to keep you from recognizing me, but I'm motivated! And you have to realize this is a chance for you to get laid, (finally)! You can strike that loss of virginity off your list! Mayby I'm really really famous! This is a chance for you to screw some famous flesh! And don't you worry about motivation, i'll make sure to finish it! I'll show you motivation. I'm gonna rub that thing so hard you are gonna see pieces of the floor sticking out on the other end! Oh, but I cannot guarantee this will be pleasurable for either of us, hey but who knows right? Can you ever really be sure its going to be pleasurable, even if you really love the person and care deeply? Never! So lets get it on!!! Now its your turn!

Anyway, I think that metaphor is getting a bit too nuts, and you have to excuse the X-ratedness of it all. hah, now that i think about it, i think i kinda lost track of the topic and got lost in the story... sometimes story can be gripping! (do not take that thing as anything really aimed at you.)

I really only wanted to say this:

* Project Members = Investors
* Attract > Argue

[Quick-n-Dead]

Hey, I'm doing a 3D version of this game
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/480006

And need to bring on a 3D artist/animator and a programmer familiar with 3D technologies to help bring the project to life. You'll get paid in royalties when the game is released, as I have no funding right now currently. The prototype shown here got a ton of positive press and people loved the game, so the 3D version is looking very promising.

Which is what I thought I was doing.  I full admit that I am not good at getting a point across, and sometimes even come off as demanding.

The truth is we are needing help getting this off the ground and thusly the reason I am here posting on this site asking for help.

I really liked what you wrote in the second one.  And, that's what I've been trying to convey this whole time.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

Hey, I'm doing a 3D version of this game
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/480006

And need to bring on a 3D artist/animator and a programmer familiar with 3D technologies to help bring the project to life. You'll get paid in royalties when the game is released, as I have no funding right now currently. The prototype shown here got a ton of positive press and people loved the game, so the 3D version is looking very promising.

Which is what I thought I was doing.  I full admit that I am not good at getting a point across, and sometimes even come off as demanding.

The truth is we are needing help getting this off the ground and thusly the reason I am here posting on this site asking for help.

I really liked what you wrote in the second one.  And, that's what I've been trying to convey this whole time.

I requested the same thing in both of those offers. The difference is, in the 2nd one, I posted the prototype, and in the first one, I posted my experience. See the difference? It doesn't really matter how you word it right now, or what you're trying to convey, you need one of these 3 things to get a serious response

1. a prototype
2. an amazing concept
3. money

You don't have 2 or 3, and you'll have a lot of trouble getting 2 without 1, so basically, make a prototype!

[Quick-n-Dead]

Hey, I'm doing a 3D version of this game
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/480006

And need to bring on a 3D artist/animator and a programmer familiar with 3D technologies to help bring the project to life. You'll get paid in royalties when the game is released, as I have no funding right now currently. The prototype shown here got a ton of positive press and people loved the game, so the 3D version is looking very promising.

Which is what I thought I was doing.  I full admit that I am not good at getting a point across, and sometimes even come off as demanding.

The truth is we are needing help getting this off the ground and thusly the reason I am here posting on this site asking for help.

I really liked what you wrote in the second one.  And, that's what I've been trying to convey this whole time.

I requested the same thing in both of those offers. The difference is, in the 2nd one, I posted the prototype, and in the first one, I posted my experience. See the difference? It doesn't really matter how you word it right now, or what you're trying to convey, you need one of these 3 things to get a serious response

1. a prototype
2. an amazing concept
3. money

You don't have 2 or 3, and you'll have a lot of trouble getting 2 without 1, so basically, make a prototype!

Sounds good!  Still need to do up a design document.

[deWiTTERS]

It's like going to Vegas... You go there to gamble to win, but most often you end up losing more than you win.  It's a risk, granted.  But, there is always that chance of a big pay off at some point so you continue on.

Going to Vegas actually makes more business sense than creating a FPS and hoping to get money from that. Since nobody here seems to be able to convince you otherwise, I'm going to tell you this: you're an idiot. Going to Vegas and hope to win money is clearly something only an idiot would do. Creating an FPS and hoping to get money is much of the same.

You're standing on the edge of a cliff, and asking us: 'Hey, can you give me a push'. We're saying, 'you're going to fall and land flat on you're face. You're chances of surviving are close to zero, nil, nothing,...', and now you're telling us 'I don't need to know what my chances are, just give me a push'.

WELL ALRIGHTY THEN!

Your FPS is going to be great, and it's going to sell like crazy, everybody will love it. You guys will be millionaires within the next 5 years, buying Lamborghini's and stuff. And if not, well, it will probably pay the bills much as a regular job. Go for it!

[Quick-n-Dead]

It's like going to Vegas... You go there to gamble to win, but most often you end up losing more than you win.  It's a risk, granted.  But, there is always that chance of a big pay off at some point so you continue on.

Going to Vegas actually makes more business sense than creating a FPS and hoping to get money from that. Since nobody here seems to be able to convince you otherwise, I'm going to tell you this: you're an idiot. Going to Vegas and hope to win money is clearly something only an idiot would do. Creating an FPS and hoping to get money is much of the same.

You're standing on the edge of a cliff, and asking us: 'Hey, can you give me a push'. We're saying, 'you're going to fall and land flat on you're face. You're chances of surviving are close to zero, nil, nothing,...', and now you're telling us 'I don't need to know what my chances are, just give me a push'.

WELL ALRIGHTY THEN!

Your FPS is going to be great, and it's going to sell like crazy, everybody will love it. You guys will be millionaires within the next 5 years, buying Lamborghini's and stuff. And if not, well, it will probably pay the bills much as a regular job. Go for it!

Lovely... absolutely beautiful!  A peanut from the peanut gallery who'd only be lucky enough to have something even remotely worth saying.  You, Sir, are an idiot.  Pull your head out of your proverbial pie hole.

You may think you reign supreme by your witty semi-half-assed retort.

If by some chance I get banned from this site, it will only prove that you all are as jaded as I perceive you to be.

I came here asking for help and get a little advice, then to have a freaking idiot like you come to me with your witless BS.

Go get a social life, because you spend way too much time on the computer to think you can outwit someone twice your age and twice your superior in wisdom.

Meanwhile, get away and get lost while you are at it.

I'm done with this site and the BULLSHIT.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

It's like going to Vegas... You go there to gamble to win, but most often you end up losing more than you win.  It's a risk, granted.  But, there is always that chance of a big pay off at some point so you continue on.

Going to Vegas actually makes more business sense than creating a FPS and hoping to get money from that. Since nobody here seems to be able to convince you otherwise, I'm going to tell you this: you're an idiot. Going to Vegas and hope to win money is clearly something only an idiot would do. Creating an FPS and hoping to get money is much of the same.

You're standing on the edge of a cliff, and asking us: 'Hey, can you give me a push'. We're saying, 'you're going to fall and land flat on you're face. You're chances of surviving are close to zero, nil, nothing,...', and now you're telling us 'I don't need to know what my chances are, just give me a push'.

WELL ALRIGHTY THEN!

Your FPS is going to be great, and it's going to sell like crazy, everybody will love it. You guys will be millionaires within the next 5 years, buying Lamborghini's and stuff. And if not, well, it will probably pay the bills much as a regular job. Go for it!

Lovely... absolutely beautiful!  A peanut from the peanut gallery who'd only be lucky enough to have something even remotely worth saying.  You, Sir, are an idiot.  Pull your head out of your proverbial pie hole.

You may think you reign supreme by your witty semi-half-assed retort.

If by some chance I get banned from this site, it will only prove that you all are as jaded as I perceive you to be.

I came here asking for help and get a little advice, then to have a freaking idiot like you come to me with your witless BS.

Go get a social life, because you spend way too much time on the computer to think you can outwit someone twice your age and twice your superior in wisdom.

Meanwhile, get away and get lost while you are at it.

I'm done with this site and the BULLSHIT.

It's probably best to not respond to obvious flamebait in the future

EDIT: Also, go ahead and get angry at this site because of the actions of one. But I challenge you, ask the same thing on another site like newgrounds (programming forum or art forum) or elsewhere. You will be lucky to even be given advice in the first place. You're lucky you got advice here instead of being shunned away on the first page with sarcasm. Don't take that for granted.
see: similar thread
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=8109.0

[John Nesky]

flamebait

indignant response generalizing about tigsource forums, deletes account

...Uh, dewitters had a lower postcount than Quick-n-Dead. 

[Glaiel-Gamer]

flamebait

indignant response generalizing about tigsource forums, deletes account

...Uh, dewitters had a lower postcount than Quick-n-Dead. 

and his username is so fitting too. He came here quick and now he's dead

[Aquin]

Yeah, I've been following this thread the whole time.

Wow.  Just wow.   

[John Nesky]

Also, you could not have chosen a worse handle for pitching your idea with.

It's my in-game name for Call of Duty 4, Joint Operations, Battlefield 2, Battlefield Vietnam, Red Orchestra, Delta Force Blackhawk Down, Commanche 4, Armored Fist, F16 and Delta Force 2 just to name a few.

I tried googling for his name just now. Result: this thread, and not much else. I guess he doesn't frequent forums much.

[William Broom]

Seems like he really didn't want to hear what you guys were telling him, so he was just waiting for an excuse to fly off the handle and delete his account.

[Kekskiller]

A simple "Goodbye, I don't like you anymore" would have been enough...

Edit: 800 posts!

[deWiTTERS]

...Uh, dewitters had a lower postcount than Quick-n-Dead. 

Productivity tip #1: Don't post in forums! . But sometimes I just can't help myself .

Hey, at least my post was the one who got him out of here, he's probably more *productive* now .


Sorry, got to go, my code is calling...

[Mipe]

I look away for a few days and look what I missed!  It is like I turned around only to see a perfectly fine cake get gobbled down to the platter!

[moi]

The military recruiter type was a refreshing variant of the MMORPG NOOB meme, I would like to see more original skits like that in the future
 

[Afinostux]

He's gone?

GOOD! I can finally get this out of my system without feeling like an asshole

I'm the mechanic of the whole thing.  I turn the screws and put boot to backside.

So, how motivated am I?  That's the question you must ask yourself.

[fish]

that guy was desperate.