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[Jazzman]

This game IS working.
This game IS about to go into a closed beta within a small circle.

To anyone who wants to question my age: For god's sake, it's not relevant. A freshman can be mature when they want to and crazy when they want to!

To anyone questioning me about pre-planning sequels: Theoria is in a episode-like format. Glenn's chapters consist of 3 levels, and the levels you play change depending on the route. If you play through it all, you go through 7 distinct levels.

To anyone who complained about free-handing: If I followed a rulebook on do's and don't in game design, I wouldn't even think about making a game.

To the Iji comparison: Iji is one of the main inspirations for this game ^_^.

To Fallout/Bioshock comparisons: I see no relevance, but I can see how connections could be made on a small level.

Seems like he responded to all the stuff we've been saying on his blog: http://jazz.gamerlimit.com/2009/09/email-qa-week-1/

The combat mechanics for glenn are working, which is fantastic, and I havn’t had too many glitchy things going on.

So apparently he has actually got some sort of engine working.

Jazzman, you should probably understand that these forums have seen a large number of people like you, who are young and think that developing a game will be easy. Often they have outlandish ambitions, no actual work done, and are obnoxious to boot. Within a few days they get angry at people trying to give them good advice and they leave in a huff.

You don't seem to be so bad as all that, though - you're certainly not obnoxious and you've apparently got some work done with both the programming and the art. However the 'ambitious' part really does apply to you. Planning a whole trilogy of games in advance is probably biting off more than you can chew.

What I recommend you to do is to make sure your first game can stand alone, and it doesn't necessarily need the two sequels for it to make sense. That way you have the option of stopping after one game if you want to. That's not so much because you may find it hard to complete three games but because you might not want to. Freshman means it's your first year in high school, right? When I think about what was important to me in my first year of high school, and then compare it to only two or three years later, it changed a hell of a lot. You may well find that if you spend a year and a half developing your first game, the ideas behind the other two might not be so appealing.

Anyway that's just my 2 cents and I wish you good luck with the game.

I'm very glad someone was polite! 

You gave some very nice advice. I'll look more into that, but it might require a total revamp of the game, maybe to the point of not having Glenn!

The other option is open ended. If anyone has read the short story "The lady or the tiger?" they'd remember it ends at the climax. I could give or take a few hints, and leave it at there.

[Jason Bakker]

This game IS working.
This game IS about to go into a closed beta within a small circle.

I think people here (actual game creators themselves) won't be satisfied until you answer how you're making it, in what program/language, for what platform, etc.

You're either:

1. Making your experience in a program such as Game Maker, MMF2, Flash, etc. using a mix of drag+drop and programming for the game logic.

2. Coding it mostly from scratch, using (say) DirectX if it's PC, OpenGL if it's Mac/iPhone, etc.

3. Making a board game, a card game, or a choose-your-own-adventure book with pictures.

Which one of these is it?

[William Broom]

You could still leave some things unexplained in the first game, just try to make it so that while the player would be interested to learn the answers, it's not crucial to their enjoyment of the story. i.e. in Assassin's Creed, the unanswered questions need answers. It's obvious that they want to entice you to buy the sequel. Whereas in Shadow of the Colossus there are also a lot of unanswered questions, but you can appreciate the story without getting the answers.

And yes, I agree with Jason Bakker, I would really like to know what you're using to develop this game.

[deathtotheweird]

Why are you getting defensive about your age? Jeez, all of us here were 16 at once (and some probably are). However, being mature or crazy has nothing to do with programming skills. Not directly anyways.

I'm quite offended you said "I'm glad someone was polite" as everyone who replied offered you genuine advice. There was no malice in any of the posts I read, and none in the ones I made.

You still keep avoiding the question of HOW you are developing it. Game Maker? Construct? Flash? Assembly? (ho ho.)

This game IS working.

Well define what you mean by working. I'm not sure if I believe you because you keep dodging simple questions. As much as we love hearing your influences, your gameplay ideas and story..it's all detailed on your website and you are just echoing it here. That and the reasons Jason mentioned are why some of us want to know what you are using and how you plan on getting it done instead of replies such as "it's not supposed to be a game but an experience" or something along those lines.

If you are programming it in either pygame/lua based engine/construct/rpg maker/game maker I will offer you some tips if you are confused and need help with something-if you want.

[Gainsworthy]

I'm quite offended you said "I'm glad someone was polite" as everyone who replied offered you genuine advice. There was no malice in any of the posts I read, and none in the ones I made.

Aww man, now hold up. Gonna double up on Chutup's territory a little, hope that's okay. TIGS forums (and Game Deving forums in general, I guess) get a fair few super-ambitious folk who are pretty new to Game-Making and, for the first project, decide to take on an enormous beast. More often than not it's something even someone with years of experience would brace themselves for.


After seeing this, either first-hand or in someone else's thread, the advice given will often seem rather blunt. And maybe a little harsh. From the perspective of someone who makes games (or has at least had a shot at making some) this advice seems sane and reasonable. "Why are you planning a trilogy?" "You can't do this without a strict regimen, you know." "Try your hand at a smaller project first, perhaps." For the person who has just laid out their mind, it kind of seems like the idea is being savaged in front of them.


To re-iterate, Jazz, I don't see anyone being nasty here. Games are far more than awesome ideas - you really need to prepare yourself and learn how to make them in order to make them. I'm working on my first project, and it's taking me muchos time. Guys who have posted so far don't want to see you flounder around for a few months and then lose hope in the project. They wanna make you think about what you're doing, and how you're doing it.


Good luck dude. Sounds like an interesting idea. But, really, prepare yourself for a long time working on it. Game making is freaking tough. Good to hear it's going into Alpha testing, though! Should have a round of tests on TIGS, too. I'd be up for it. Some people here have a very keen eye for design.

[mokesmoe]

Why are you getting defensive about your age? Jeez, all of us here were 16 at once (and some probably are).

I'm only 15!

(Ya, thats all I had to add)

[Christian Knudsen]

I remember when I was about 10. I decided to write a horror book with a friend. We convinced my sister to draw a cool cover with a skull. I think we even managed to write five lines.

[deathtotheweird]

I'm only 15!

15? GET HIM.

[j0d1]

This artwork on your dev blog reminds me of Lester in Out of this World.

[Gryphon]

This artwork on your dev blog reminds me of Lester in Out of this World.

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking!

[deathtotheweird]

now that you mention it, i see it as well

[Dragonmaw]

Nobody is saying you are stupid because of your age. We are saying that you are biting off way more than you can chew, and are not offering any concrete details when you hype up your game. You keep dodging questions when asked about technical details of the game. This is not a great way to ingratiate yourself with the population of TIGSource.

Most of the people here are serious game makers or people that are serious about games in general. We love the indie scene, we love supporting the little guy, and we love a good, innovative game idea. But we are also skeptical of people coming in, promising big projects and never releasing details or answering questions. There are plenty of ambitious designers out there, but relatively few with the knowledge and capability to make their ambitions a reality. The fact that you aren't sharing basic details (platform, framework, unique concept art/animation) is bothersome.\

Edit: How many times is this thread going to get moved?!

[mirosurabu]

Too many harsh comments. Is that really necessary?

I see ideas but I don't see more concrete stuff. Let's just wait.

[deathtotheweird]

My use of "rubbish" and "your first game is going to suck hard" and the other smartass comments are probably uncalled for..but I do not think they are harsh. They are the truth. Best case scenario would be that he could make a great game and say "HA! YOU DOUBTED ME AND I PUT ME MONEY WHERE ME MOUTH IS." 

and in response to CAsinclair, is yeah, I'm in the same boat. I started in my mid-teens and made tons of garbage games. Nothing wrong with that-it's experience. But his ideas are so ambitious and I really am interested in it so that's why I recommend he not make this idea his first game. Not many indie games have that sort of choice and I really like that concept.

If I cared, I could thumb through the devlog section (older posts) and find dozens upon dozens of young kids with huge ambitions. But of course, I probably wouldn't even reply if I didn't like the overall premise so much.

Don't get me wrong, I was just being honest. And like I said, my help still stands. I even have a basic platform engine in LÖVE (Lua, baredones-needs updating actually), Python (pygame), and a basic prototype engine in Game Maker that I used to use  that I could give you if you want to whip up a quick prototype.

tl;dr:
Hope you succeed, my offer of help still stands. Good luck 

[mirosurabu]

Harsh and true aren't mutually exclusive. 

[deathtotheweird]

Indeed they aren't. Again, I don't believe what I said was harsh. I was just trying to give him a reality check, as it were.

But is is the truth that his first game will not be what he wants it to be..

Anyways, sorry for derailing the topic a bit. I'll leave it be and respond whenever he decides to show some real progress, because I'm interested in this concept.

[Gryphon]

I think I might have something to add here since I'm also a bit of an "newbie" when it comes to game development (I'm 20 though, not that it matters).

I've created a total of 4 small games in my life, 3 of which were utter shit despite the small size of the project, complete lack of graphics (used ASCII instead), etc. However, I don't regret having made any of these 3 shitty games since each of them was a valuable lesson in game design and programming (in this case more of a lesson on how NOT to do it, I guess :D)

What I'm trying to say with this is (and that goes in line with what everyone said already): Before you go out of your way thinking up complicated game mechanics, plotlines and even sequels (or "episodes"), learn some of the basic skills you need, find out what kind of workflow suits you best and start out with small projects you can actually finish. Of course, the idea of having something really awesome as your first game is a pleasant one, but it's just not gonna happen.

I totally agree with you. I began with making crappy text games, and then made a decent dungeon-crawler with ASCII "graphics." And yes, you DO learn a hell of a lot from making little things like that.

As for something a bit more on topic...jazzman, it seems like you really haven't done anything at all. "Glenn's combat mechanics..." Um, why would that be the only thing you mention? You don't mention how you're doing it. Sounds like bullshit to me. Just say that you haven't actually made anything and that you're just designing it--that's fine, but don't act like you've done something when you really haven't. But if I'm completely wrong and you have been working on the game, then why the hell are you avoiding simple questions about it? Really...that's weird.

Anyway, don't give up on the project. You seem to have some innovative ideas that I can only hope will be executed well. NOW GO MAKE TEH DAMN GAMEZ!!

[Jazzman]

Harsh and true aren't mutually exclusive. 

Indeed, thank you for support. I do appreciate any actual feedback, trust me, but not when it's accompanied by flavorful language. You won't believe what kinda stuff I get in my email!

The game is being made in GM7 pro. I'm sorry I forgot to mention that earlier

I realize this is my first game, but I'm working very, VERY, VERY hard to get it working! I have absolutely no idea why my game is going to suck just because it's my first. Experience helps, but I'm doing fine so far!

The art is kind of concept, I've only got a couple of frames. It is a dedication to Another World. The game was actually supposed to be a full tribute, but I changed my mind, since there are too many games I love to focus on one. I'm glad you noticed though!

I don't get what you mean about concrete details (Is that a nail in the coffin?). Is it platform info, engine info, what?

So since everyone wants in on the actual game I'll say what I've gotten done.

*Player moves and the Collision is perfectly fine.
*Player has 1 attack which is buggy, hitbox problem.
*Player can jump, but it isn't stable
*Player 2 can be called in and moves well except has problems following P1's jumps.
*Problems with player 2 attacking, since I'm very specific about the taser.

And I've got a great story and filler art, plus all my homework done, all done in around 2-3 weeks. I don't know whether that would satisfy a player, but it sure is progress for me!

[William Broom]

Well people are probably going to be here in a minute to tell you that's hardly any work at all, and they're basically right. But you know they say a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step... well at least you've taken that step and you're walking in the right direction. Most people in your situation don't get that far, they just hang around forums asking people to do work for them. So keep at it!
To get more stuff done, I recommend you to focus on the artwork and game engine to begin with. Plotting out exactly what will happen in each scene of the story is not really that useful - once you've actually got the game running you will probably find that a lot of things don't work like you thought they would, and you'll want to change them around anyway.

Also, what do you mean by the player can jump, but it isn't stable?

[Gryphon]

Well people are probably going to be here in a minute to tell you that's hardly any work at all, and they're basically right.

I'd say that's a good start, now that we know he's actually workin on it  :D

One thing, though. Art, music, story, game design...that's the fun part! It's the programming that's a pain!