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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingMelolune (video added)
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Author Topic: Melolune (video added)  (Read 57966 times)
hyperduck
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2009, 01:03:24 PM »

@supershigi: I am a student, and therefore own Cubase Studio 5 on Educational discount.

Prologue and HALionOne, plus GrooveAgent are all great programs that come with Cubase, I use them an a bunch of other random free VSTs, depending on what it is. It'd be a pain for you if i listed them so yes, if you ever need a particular sound and have no idea if it exists, give me a shout, I might have it sitting on my PC somewhere. Too many sounds to count, I'm a VST junkie.


Had a Triton for a while, they're excellent! I just work from cubase with a sequencer keystation now.

Aside from Cubase, I can't think of anything else to be honest, I play all what I write, and only sequence kits and arps, so cubase studio 5 covers a lot of that for me. If you're a student in USA http://www.studica.com/products/product_detail.cfm?productid=58891 that link may come in handy if you ever think about getting cubase studio 5, worth the money and coming at that amount of discount (i think it's originally 600) it's a good catch.

UK goers should try http://students.pugh.co.uk/index.php?nID=productDetail&manu=78&prodID=2448

Anyways, yes!
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supershigi
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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2009, 04:04:49 PM »

I thought I'd post a link to another song from the game called "The Great World."  It used to be the main theme back when the game was called Blue Star... but now it plays during scenes when the characters resolve to do something adventurous (like when they leave to save the village, or when they're on the boat to Ciro). 

@Hima: Hi Hima!  Thanks for stopping by Smiley  Good luck with your thesis... what is the topic?  And does that mean you're almost finished with school? 

@HyperDuck: Thank-you for the offer Smiley  Cubase is pretty cool; I tried it out back in college when I was working with a friend.  And thanks for posting the link, I'm sure there are a bunch of students out there who would love to take advantage of that offer!  Music software can be so expensive sometimes. 
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JackNeil
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« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2009, 07:22:13 PM »

I already told you, that you inspired me to create a story-based-game, but I'm not an experienced writer and writing a compelling, deep, and moving story is hard. So I though the best approach would be to improve the entire story in an iterative process, like the maps and puzzles in Grappling Hook.

Important is, that even big changes won't take much time, to keep the time exposure of every iteration low. Also, a playable version should be ready as early as possible and at any time.
The creation of the story-test-environment also shouldn't take to much time.

Till now, my best idea to do this is some kind of text adventure, because it doesn't require artwork or other content. Even gameplay-sequences could be replaced by short descriptions.

For the entire project this would mean:
1. Create a text-adventure for the story.
2. Improve the story with many iterations until it is very good.
3. Create the real game, with gameplay, dialog-system, graphics, ...
4. Port the story from the text-adventure to the real game.

What do you think about this idea?
Do you have a better or alternative ideas?
Have you done something like that for Melolune?
Do you have any other tips to ensure, that the story of a game will be great?

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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2009, 07:31:01 AM »

I wanted to post my feedback before I read everyone else's. I played it last night I think for an hour or more (2 hours? 3? I'll have to check!), and made it to the village past the swamp. I think I did most of the side-quests, including the birthday one (really touching), the power ring, and the zombie mushrooms.

Here's what I think!

- Amazing quality. This is a very finely crafted game. Graphics are an absolute joy to see!
- Perfect Pacing. Some people I think will feel that the story is slow, but I would suggest not to listen to them. I just get the sense that you know what you're doing, what you want to accomplish, and the pacing reflects that. This is a "soft" game; it feels very gentle. I did read one other feedback item that said "cute" but I actually think "gentle" is a better word. I love it. The story seems very well thought-out, very nice use of foreshadowing in places (I'm thinking of the "Do humans eat..." bit, the purple tracks, etc.)
- You should see how other demographics than the "standard RPG crowd" (though I'm not sure what that actually is...) feel about it. Honestly I don't have much experience in the marketing realm, but my brain says that younger girls would fall in love with what you've created. You should get them to play it, video tape them talking about it, and when it comes time to promote it, use that video footage. Well that's what I'm planning to do with my game (http://kittylambda.com/texas), since I discovered at a recent event that younger adult to middle aged women love it. =) Hehehe...
- Music is beautiful. Nothing really to say here other than good job. The voices on the voice track sounded a bit muffled but it could be that my windows PC is in the closet and I don't have it hooked into a proper stereo system.
- I feel a strong Chrono Trigger influence throughout this game, which is probably part of why I think it's so great.
- Menu complexity, both battle and config, feels just about right. Anything more and it would start to feel overly complex and "system" based. I like the level of complexity with things, and you do a good job introducing/explaining it.

If you can keep to your original vision, I think you'll have a really beautiful game. I wonder how long this demo is, I'm amazed at how complete it is so far. I'll give a big "frowny face" when I reach the end, but I'm sure I'll have an even bigger smile. =)

Glitches/bugs found, criticisms:

- Really, I only found one. After defeating the hawk on the top of the mountain, I saw for a very brief time the hawk flash on-screen, in the sky to the left and above the nest.
- The portraits of the human boys seem to be drawn a bit differently than the little rabbity-guys (sorry, I can't remember any names right now!) The boys don't look as sharp, somehow.
- The overworld graphics I think need to have a softer palette to match the areas. When I first entered the overworld map it was very jarring. Were they drawn by different artists? Truthfully, and it's a bit harsh to say it, I would redo the overworld graphics. It's probably a small job compared to the "area" graphics, and it detracts a lot from the experience. CT had amazing overworld graphics, I feel your area graphics are on par with CT but not the overworld.

I really enjoyed this, wow! You've created something really special and I wish you the best of luck at the IGF.
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PsySal
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2009, 07:23:13 AM »

Ah, finished it off last night. Really nicely done! I enjoyed the battle with Molra...

Anyhow, awesome job, that was a fun conclusion (to the demo). Such a little gem of an RPG...
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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2009, 07:24:45 AM »

Downloading it right now, will provide feedback later.
EDIT:

The music was awesome. You made me stop playing just to listen to some tunes, specially that one in the first dungeon (the brownish dungeon, I think it's called "The Great World").

I noticed some influences by Chrono Trigger, most when I saw the world map.

The story was ok, the Melolune system was interesting. The part with Mani and Dominic was a little emotional, which was kinda... well, cool element.

What I dislike the most is the graphics -made with the pre-set RTP from RPG Maker- but maybe you chose that way because you didn't want to make all the graphical assets. That's understadable.

Also in Basho there's an old man whose right-walking animation is glitched.

I stopped playing after Dela's sidequest, cause I don't know where to go Tongue The soldier on the southern town won't let me go in..


Great work overall. The presentation was really good.

EDIT2: I also forgot to say that the Main Theme is AMAZING.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 09:41:11 AM by R. D. Ein » Logged
PsySal
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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2009, 09:37:35 AM »

What I dislike the most is the graphics -made with the pre-set RTP from RPG Maker- but maybe you chose that way because you didn't want to make all the graphical assets. That's understadable.

Ah, I didn't know it was made with preset graphics. Still, those are really nice prepackaged graphics. =)
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supershigi
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2009, 11:37:58 AM »

First of all, thank-you guys for leaving me feedback... I very much appreciate it.  I also want to clarify: Actually, quite a few of the graphics are original; and everything that is based off of the RTP was heavily edited and/or added to in order to personalize it as much as possible... the treehouses in the Leeble Village for example were not from the RTP, nor were the Leebles.  The RTP was a base for me, but I've spent a lot of time customizing it to fit my story.  I don't think it would be possible for me to make every graphical asset from scratch since I'm only a single-person development team trying to complete a 40 hour rpg ^_^; (in the version that's 80% complete, I'm up to about 500 maps!)  But I've definitely spent a ton of time on the graphics; which is why you'll notice this game looks very different from a regular rpg maker game.  I've been working on the game for close to 3 years now, and all the music is original as well, so hopefully you can see the effort ^_^

Quote from: R.D. Ein
You made me stop playing just to listen to some tunes, specially that one in the first dungeon
I just wanted to say that this comment totally made my day Smiley  Thank-you for your feedback, I'll make sure to check on the old man in Basho.  Let's see... if the guards won't let you into Debonet, it might be because of this: Did you get passes from the check station in Basho?  There's a tent in the middle of town, if you talk to the soldier inside he'll give you passes that will let you into Debonet.

@PsySal: Thank-you for taking the time to play the whole demo and leave so much feedback, that was really nice of you!  That's good advice about trying it out on the non-standard crowd... I would like to see how other groups react to it.  I teach piano to a few children, and I had them try out the game last week.  I was afraid that they wouldn't be able to handle the dialogue, but perhaps because they read a lot of novels for leisure, they didn't seem phased by it.  The girl wanted to be able to play as "the pink Aero" because she only likes girl characters, hehe.  I think you're right about the overworld map as well... I think when I complete the linear gameplay and sidequests I'm going to go back and try to tackle some of the non-matching graphics.  I also wanted to say that I checked out your game, and I totally got a kick out of the video you made on the topic of deer animation.  I hope you add a spring-noise ^_^  Where did you get the music for that video?  (The Lompakko one)... I really liked it for some reason.

@JackNeil: I'm so happy to hear that you're planning out your story-game, that's fantastic!  I think the process you mentioned sounds like it could definitely work.  Creating a text-adventure first would help you iron out little details, and then you could go back and expand on it later.  When I made the story and events for Melolune, I had two separate visions going on: 1.) The events as they would have unfolded in an rpg (because even though I had no idea that I was going to turn it into an rpg at the time, I always thought of it in terms of one since I'd played a lot of rpgs growing up), and 2.) The story as if it were a novel or movie (because it's easier to imagine how characters would really be talking to each other this way).  #1 is helpful because it helps you to balance the amount of dialogue/cutscenes with battles/puzzles.  I've found that if there are too many battles in a row the player gets bored... but if there are too many cutscenes in a row, the player isn't invested enough to find the cutscenes compelling.  What is your story about so far? 

Hm, as for tips: I've noticed that there are quite a few games (even successful commercial ones) that have kind of silly dialogue.  I think the best way to avoid this, is to test your dialogue out by reading it aloud.  Sometimes when people write dialogue, it ends up not sounding realistic because it's not how folks would talk in real life.  Reading parts of it aloud (especially important cutscenes and exchanges) helps you to see if it sounds "real" or not. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 11:47:16 AM by supershigi » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2009, 12:44:49 PM »

I figured out some graphics were original, sorry if I offended you or something. It's not an easy task to make a 40 hour RPG and you should be proud of your work. Because I used RPG Maker for a long period of my life I was able to detect some different tilesets and even edits on the original RTP, yet again I made that statement. I'm sorry.

I can't play the game right now, but I'm pretty sure I talked to everyone, including those in the tent. When I get my PC back I'll try to finish the demo.

Keep up the good work, please. More people need to listen to your awesome music.
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supershigi
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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2009, 01:23:59 PM »

@R.D. Ein: Thank-you for your kind words ^_^  Oh, I wasn't offended or anything... I think I just wanted to make sure people knew that I wasn't only using pre-packaged graphics, and that I had put a lot of effort into making the game look nice.  I'm really happy that you like the music.  What type of rpg did you work on back when you used that program? 

Have you been to the Doogay Swamp or Izaya yet (the place with the talking signs and high class zombie)?  That is the area directly south of Leeble Village where you talk to Dominic's friend Cedar about hitching a ride to Ciro. 
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« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2009, 01:33:20 PM »

I know the place but haven't been there. I'll try it tomorrow or whenever I get the chance to. (btw, the talking signs is really a cool idea, kinda unexpected)

Well, when I used RPG Maker I was pretty much a brat, I was 12 or 13, something along those lines. So you can conclude that I didn't make anything good or distinct. Just non-polished crappy cliché games, Tongue
The best I tried was to make a platformer engine or an action game, but I utterly failed, haha.

If I had the willpower I'd really like to make a game like the Chrono series. I love everything about those games, specially the characters, the music, the art, the story.. erm, ok. But the music stands out for me. Specially in Cross.

I hope you make some deep tunes that can reach the hearts of the players, like Chrono Cross did with me.

(enough with all this emotional and backstory-y stuff that's got NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR THREAD.)
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supershigi
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« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2009, 02:10:55 PM »

Oh cool!  Yeah, let me know if that doesn't work out.  Going to that little town should set you back on the right track... just look for a guy named Cedar in the Inn Smiley 

Oh man, I totally loved Chrono Trigger!  That's my favorite video game.  I loved how the story seemed simple and light-hearted in the beginning, but became more complex later on.  The twists were so cool, too... Like when I found out who Magus really was, I was like, "oh my gosh!" (I didn't pick up on the "Black wind howls" comment earlier on) I couldn't bring myself to fight him, even though I really wanted to be able to turn Frog back into a human again >_<  And the music was so lovely... Chrono Cross' soundtrack is my favorite video game soundtrack, even though I didn't enjoy the gameplay as much as CT. 

Have you been to one of the "Play! Concerts?"  When I need inspiration, I like to watch their

.  I went to one of those concerts and it moved me so much.  I seriously almost stood up and started clapping when they played Frog's theme.
 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 02:13:59 PM by supershigi » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2009, 02:20:28 PM »

 Crazy you've been to a PLAY! concert... I envy you. One of my biggest dreams is to watch that performance live... Where I live we have a similar show (Videogames Live) but I haven't got the opportunity to go, sadly. I think if I had been to one of these concerts I would have a heart attack or something like that. Cross' soundtrack is my favorite OST of all time. Mitsuda's genius, IMO.

I'm not sure if I like CT or CC more. I cried a lot more in CC, it really moved me in so many moments. It is an art masterpiece to me, trancendenting video games. But that must be because of my love for Trigger. I always replay Trigger yearly, to remember of the SNES era and have the epic nostalgia. About Magus, I NEVER KILLED HIM. Something tells me I can't do that. The story and the characters really get into your mind, but that's expected from the called "Dream Team", haha.

I see you like a lot the Chrono series and Mega Man, haha. Cool tastes Tongue Mega Man's tracks are also a favorite of mine, there are so many good songs.

On a side note, thanks for the comment on my game Smiley I really appreciate it.
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PsySal
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« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2009, 03:41:07 PM »

@PsySal: Thank-you for taking the time to play the whole demo and leave so much feedback, that was really nice of you!  That's good advice about trying it out on the non-standard crowd... I would like to see how other groups react to it.  I teach piano to a few children, and I had them try out the game last week.  I was afraid that they wouldn't be able to handle the dialogue, but perhaps because they read a lot of novels for leisure, they didn't seem phased by it.  The girl wanted to be able to play as "the pink Aero" because she only likes girl characters, hehe.  I think you're right about the overworld map as well... I think when I complete the linear gameplay and sidequests I'm going to go back and try to tackle some of the non-matching graphics.  I also wanted to say that I checked out your game, and I totally got a kick out of the video you made on the topic of deer animation.  I hope you add a spring-noise ^_^  Where did you get the music for that video?  (The Lompakko one)... I really liked it for some reason.

That's awesome. I taught piano as a substitute teacher for awhile, silly me didn't think to really get the kids to playtest though. In my experience, people don't mind reading nearly as much as they say they do. I think there is something that sometimes goes on with the internet, where people have a very short attention span. With that mindset, a player might expect a game that they can just sort of click and go BANG BANG BANG with, if that makes sense. But if somebody sits down to engage with something, they will enjoy a good story. I rewrite and rewrite and rewrite my dialog until it feels just big enough to convey what I want, and has enough humor to keep it going. I felt a similar sense of polish with the dialog, playing Melolune.

It's interesting how many people picked up the strong CT vibe! =) It seems like a strong influence to me although your game is quite different than CT. A lot of people (myself included) hold CT very, very dear!

Lompakko is by Dizzy, a finish guy who ended up as a band teacher. Back in the day (90's?) he wrote a lot of music for Amiga, and was in a demogroup "CNCD". He is amazingly talented. The reason you like the music is because, in spite of it being really silly it's good music! I didn't ask him permission for the video, but maybe I should have (his music isn't in the game or anything...) I'm not sure how I'd contact him though.

Anyhow here's some more of his stuff:

http://www.mpoli.fi/files/music/DIZZY/index.html#D

Just click where it says Modules: 86 online. These are GOOD.
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supershigi
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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2009, 10:37:12 AM »

@R.D. Ein: It was a really wonderful experience, if you ever get the chance you should totally go!  I think they've been trying to expand the number of places around the world that they perform at, so maybe in the future they'll have a concert near you.  I have to say, I was really thankful to be able to speak Japanese at the concert, because we got to meet some of the composers afterwards.  I told Mitsuda that he was a great inspiration to me (at the time, I was just starting out as a game composer) and that his music was really beautiful.  Uematsu was sitting next to him, and he made the joke, "aww, all I got from her was an I like your music," >_< Hehehe... but I really like his music, too. 

Oh, I love Megaman!  After watching the part in your video where the girl flips and lands on the ceiling I was like, "that's so cool, it reminds me of Gravity Man!"  Now I totally want to try out your game.  I agree that the music from the Megaman series was great... actually, it was probably my first inspiration in terms of learning how to arrange music, as strange as that sounds. 

  Which Megaman games are your favorite? 

@PsySal: Thank-you for saying that Smiley  I taught piano yesterday, and right as I walked in my students were like, "we finished the demo!  It was awesome!" *^_^*  The younger one kept asking questions about the plot, and I'd be like, "Well, do you really want me to spoil it for you?"  And the older one would say, "No no, don't listen to him, don't spoil it!"  I was very humbled by their reaction.  That's cool that you've taught piano also.

Yeah, I thought that was interesting too that so many people picked up on the CT-vibe given that the story and characters are very different.  But I'm glad, because I really love that game Smiley  I think I must've gotten at least 10 people to play it.  Last year I got DS-versions for my mom and sisters since they never played it back when it was on SNES (they only recently started getting into video games... my mom plays World of Warcraft now!).  I think the guy at Gamestop got a kick out of how I had ordered so many copies. 

Thank-you for the link to Dizzy's music... that stuff is great!  It's amazing how small the files are too... that demoscene stuff is crazy.  
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Laura Shigihara | Composer and Game Designer
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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2009, 10:42:49 AM »

I've read about you on one of your websites, and read about how you recorded Hard Man's music Tongue I like that track (along with snakeman's, my favorites from MM3).

My mind is blown into thousands of pieces. First you go to a Play! Concert then you talk to my favorite composer of all time, in japanese? Ha. Gotta be kidding me >_>
Nobuo too, damn! You lucky  Addicted

I need to say that Mega Man 2, 7 and 9 are my favorites. That and the ZERO series, which I like a lot too. I wonder what are yours?

Also, the sunflower in the Plants vs Zombies music video has the cutest voice ever. <3
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supershigi
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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2009, 11:19:30 AM »

Yes, I did that Tongue  I tried to show my parents, and I told them that the music was "so complex," but I think they thought I was crazy, hahaha.  I liked Megaman 2-5 and 7.  I also liked the first X-game, and ZX on the DS.  It's cool to know there are other people out there who have actually heard of MM7... I think when it came out, it didn't get a lot of attention since it was sort of overshadowed by the X-series.  But it was a really good game, very polished.  I actually didn't get to play it until a while after it was released... and I was so hooked that I pulled my first all-nighter in college as a result of (this is so stupid) insisting that I couldn't study for my midterm until I had passed MM7.  Of course I didn't pass it until like midnight.  So I stayed up all night reading >_<  My friends totally made fun of me for that, haha.

And thank-you ^_^  It was really fun to voice the sunflower! 

On a slightly different note, does anyone have any tips about making a gameplay video?  I realized that my game is one of the few IGF entries that doesn't have a video to go along with it, and I'd really like to make one.  I'm using Windows XP, so if anyone knows of good simple software for capturing gameplay footage and editing videos, I'd appreciate a recommendation Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2009, 02:31:10 PM »

CamStudio(.org) is an easy to use piece of software to record video and sound.

I have an old version of Adobe Premiere I use to edit video, but it costs too much for what you want to do. Google showed me this: http://www.debugmode.com/wax/ and it looks easy to use.
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« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2009, 05:24:00 PM »

@supershigi: Aha, I can't believe you met Mitsuda and Uematsu! They are both awesome, I really actually think FF8 soundtrack was amazing although a lot of folks didn't like it that much. Anyhow, wow. I am now officially in awe of you! =)

My friend once sent an email to Kikuta, and got a reply. Then he found out Kikuta had a daughter and emailed asking if he could marry her, but didn't get a reply. Hahaha! Wrong approach to internet stalking, I guess. =)

For movie editing, I think Microsoft Movie Maker is actually really good. It's minimal but it works well and it comes with XP. Sometimes you might feel like, "gee, I wish I could do such-and-such an effect" but actually with MMM you sort of realize, it's mostly in the cuts. So the lack of features can be good. It does support transitions and certain effects, though.
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supershigi
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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2009, 12:48:35 AM »

Thank-you guys for the suggestions ^_^  I ended up trying out CamStudio and Microsoft Movie Maker tonight (somehow I had managed to overlook the fact that the latter was on my computer), and I think they will work fine for the gameplay video.  Hopefully I'll be able to post something soon.  In the interim, I thought I should share a bit about what I've been working on lately with the game: the musical dungeon mechanic. 

I have most of the dungeons in the game completed in terms of layout and puzzles... but I still have to finish the music for the last few areas.  Normally I can do this fairly quickly, but it's a lot more challenging for me when I have to compose for the musical dungeons.  Basically, I have to come up with a piece that can be broken down into 3 separate pieces that all sound decent enough on their own to be used as looping BGMs.  They also have to sound decent for all 7 possible combinations the player can make (1 alone, 2 alone, 3 alone, 1 + 2, 2 + 3, 1 + 3, and all 3 together) by placing Melolune on the pedestals in different orders.

The Upperlands dungeon for example (which is the cave you fall into after encountering the soldiers who are trying to poison the water) is broken into 3 sections:
1.) piano and oboe "conversation," euphonium, harp, flute, and viola
2.) cello (which compliments the euphonium) and strings (which compliment the flute and viola)
3.) percussion 

#1 by itself sounds like this.

#1 and 2 together sound like this.

And when you combine all 3, you get this.

There are 4 other combinations, but you get the idea... Right now I'm working on music for a dungeon set beneath the Orderian Engineer's Guild.  

Quote from: PsySal
My friend once sent an email to Kikuta, and got a reply. Then he found out Kikuta had a daughter and emailed asking if he could marry her, but didn't get a reply. Hahaha! Wrong approach to internet stalking, I guess. =)
Hahaha... oh my goodness, he must really have been a big fan!
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 12:54:13 AM by supershigi » Logged

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