next »

[supershigi]

Thank-you Christian, that does help ^_^  I think I was at a point where all the details were distracting me from my original purpose, so going back and reflecting on that was quite motivating.  I really want people to experience the whole story.  Hearing my mom say she wants to play until the end to find out what happens also kicked me into gear, haha.

I'm actually starting to enjoy the database work... after absorbing as much as I could from the thread on RPG battle mechanics I decided to dismantle and rebuild the skill tree.  It was daunting at first, but now I'm getting into the flavor and interactions of various spells.  For example, Hawk can cast "rummy dummy" (he's a pirate, so naturally he's got a lot of rum on hand) which decreases the dexterity of all the enemies causing them to miss a lot.  Although I have a lot of limitations, I hope I can come up with some interesting stuff!

I hope that by time GDC rolls around I'll be at beta... but we'll see

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

And for those of you who have finished games before, do you have any advice for me about the last phase before beta?  How do you keep yourselves motivated and on track so that you can finish even during the boring parts?

i don't actually use the idea of a 'beta phase' (or alpha for that matter), what specifically do you mean by 'beta'? do you mean the stage at which a game has all the things you want in it (or most of the things?), and is just being proofread / bugfixed? or do you mean the stage at which a lot of people are playtesting it rather than a few?

regardless, i think there's no real solution to that problem; making games is fun, starting games is fun, finishing them is tedious. some people adapt by perpetually starting games and never finishing them and avoiding the boring parts that way, others just finish them despite it being boring. a certain degree of stoicism helps.

[supershigi]

And for those of you who have finished games before, do you have any advice for me about the last phase before beta?  How do you keep yourselves motivated and on track so that you can finish even during the boring parts?

i don't actually use the idea of a 'beta phase' (or alpha for that matter), what specifically do you mean by 'beta'? do you mean the stage at which a game has all the things you want in it (or most of the things?), and is just being proofread / bugfixed? or do you mean the stage at which a lot of people are playtesting it rather than a few?

regardless, i think there's no real solution to that problem; making games is fun, starting games is fun, finishing them is tedious. some people adapt by perpetually starting games and never finishing them and avoiding the boring parts that way, others just finish them despite it being boring. a certain degree of stoicism helps.

I guess by "beta" I mean when the game is content-complete, but just needs to be tested for bugs, grammatical errors, etc.  When you were nearing the end of Immortal Defense, was there anything in particular that kept you focused and on task?  Like, were you motivated purely by the desire to finish it... was there a message that you couldn't wait to get across to your audience... etc.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i hardly remember since it was so long ago. i do remember that i decided i'd leave some features out of the release in order to finish it earlier -- for instance, the level editor. i later updated it with those extra features.

i don't think i was motivated by any particular outcome or goal. i sort of make games "by instinct" -- it's just something i do each day, i don't think about why. i've done it for so long (started programming games in 1994 in qbasic) that i no longer know how not to make games.

[BinaryMind]

I'm just seeing this for the first time. Waiting for the demo to download.

Like many here, this seems really inspired by Chrono Trigger, and has that ever been a bad thing? I just beat the game last week   and yeah, most of the screenshots seem to be heavily influenced by the Kingdom Zeal, by far the best looking area of the game.

The voices however, are a little iffy. For indie games it seems to be the rule-of-thumb to stay away from voicing mostly because without professional voice actors (unless that's what you got), it's tough to nail good voices. I'll see how it plays out when I'm done with the demo.

[PsySal]

Hey supershigi, I haven't been following this thread but it sounds like you're nearing completion with this. Keep at 'er, don't rush it but don't be afraid to call it finished when it's done! I can't wait to play it...

[supershigi]

@Paul: That's really cool that you feel that way about making games... I guess I feel that way about music; after a certain point putting together arrangements just became a very natural and consistent thing for me.  How difficult was it for you to update your game with extra features?  I think for space reasons I'll probably have a smaller download that includes a lot of midi music, but then offer a patch later that includes mp3s/ogg versions of the tracks.

@BinaryMind: Hi there, thanks for commenting ^_^  Ah, I loved the Kingdom of Zeal... one of my save files is perpetually located there so that I can visit anytime.  Just out of curiosity, did you figure out who Magus was before he revealed it?  I always feel like I'm the only one who didn't realize until his cutscene, hehe...  Oh, and just to clarify, there isn't voice acting throughout the game... only a small bit in the intro sequence which I think fits pretty well.  The actor is professional (it's me, hehe... I've been doing music, sound effects, vocals, and voice over work for video games professionally for several years now... it's my day job).  But yeah, please let me know what you think of the demo!  I hope you have fun with it despite its flaws!

@PsySal: Thank-you for your words of encouragement ^_^  I really hope I can do a good job tying everything together!

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

it took me longer to make the updates than to make the game itself (9 months vs 6) largely because i was also occupied in promoting the game and also because it's often harder to find and fix all the bugs in a game than to make the game. people say that finishing up the last 20% of the game takes 80% of the time, and that's generally been right in my experience.

[MaloEspada]

Just passing by to wish you good luck on the final lap of the project!
Can't wait to play the finished version and live the awesomeness.

(Upperlands <3)

[Jonathan]

And for those of you who have finished games before, do you have any advice for me about the last phase before beta?  How do you keep yourselves motivated and on track so that you can finish even during the boring parts?

The best advice I can give is to be realistic about what you need to do.  Make yourself a list including everything you can think of, and check each thing off as you go.  Try to include silly little tasks on your list, because being able to check off boxes will give you a sense of accomplishment, therefore motivating you to complete the more complex stuff.  Having someone else help you with accountability is also good... tell friends that you're going to have a beta version out by a certain date so that you have more of an incentive to stick to that goal. 

This is a great little gem of a project, and we'd really love to see you finish it.  My wife is also secretly hoping you'll make Leeble dolls.

(Upperlands <3)

This.

[rekcah]

For me it seems to always work out that I don't even feel like working on the game anymore. I still want it to get done. But, I kinda wish someone else would finish it for me because there's usually a lot of work left to do and work isn't fun obviously LAWL. (Well,I guess work is fun for some people... just not for me.)  

But some how my big mouth is what saves the day. I end up telling people that I'm working on a new project and some how they get all excited about it. And just when I'm ready to throw in the towel someone calls me or sends me a message along the lines of "HEY IS YOUR GAME DONE!?". And then I eventually get it finished because I don't want to let people down.

So essentially you've done what you needed to do! I guess, now its our job to keep pestering you until you get it done   .

[gimymblert]

Damn i have dl the game just to find out my HD is full 

[BinaryMind]

So I have finally put some good time into the game. I just healed the poison on Archaius. There really aren't that many problems with the game. Great music, artwork, gameplay, and fine dialogue. Does the demo end though? Most demos don't run as long as two hours, or js the whole game here for bug fixing?

I did find two bugs: The old man in the town Gasho who paces back and forth. His sprite doesn't animate when he paces to the right, but it does when he's on the left. The sign with the Wanted Hawk, there is a bug where if you read the sign too fast after the first time, the sound doesn't play. Also, I don't know if this was a common occurrence either, but I had to start downloading the demo four times because it the download randomly stopped.

Otherwise, keep up the great work. I'm looking forward to playing some more!

[Jonathan]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention... (this is totally minor) I noticed Achaius has a specific ladder climb animation, but Dominic doesn't (when he's the head of the party in the Mountain Melon Farm place).  Are players going to be allowed to switch their party around later?  (I'm guessing at some point you'll have more than 4 characters in the party). 

Also, we showed my friend your demo this week since he used to be really into rpg maker.  He said he had never seen a map as beautiful as Leeble Forest (the place with all the little treehouses) in all his years of working with the program. 

[supershigi]

@Paul: Wow!  That's crazy that it took you longer to fix all the bugs than to create the game itself.  I've also heard that phrase about how the last 20% of the game takes 80% of the time... I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that in my case it won't be as severe since I try to divide the game into sections where everything is fully bug tested before I move on... then I don't touch that section again.  But this end-game stuff is indeed proving to be quite time consuming >_<  Is Saturated Dreamers a linear rpg, or is it more open-ended?

@rdein: Aw, thank-you!  I still have a lot more music to make, so hearing you say that is very motivating!

@Jonathan: Thank-you Jonathan!  I love making lists actually... last week I spent a couple days working at this Hong Kong cafe; I just brought a notebook and pen (since I'm rewriting all the enemy spells and states by hand first and then putting them into the system), and checked off boxes as I went along.  It's really satisfying!  Ah, you're right about the ladder sprite thing... I'll try to make one for Dominic as well.  After a certain point you will have more than 4 characters in the party, so I'm trying to come up with a good way to let the player switch them around.  I'm really glad that your friend liked the Leeble Forest map... that one took a lot of time ^_^  And tell your wife that I really want to make Leeble plushies... definitely one of my goals once I finish the game!

@rekcah: Haha, that's awesome that your friends will harass you about it until you finish it ^_^  Whenever I come back to the thread and see a bunch of replies I always get a boost from that!  Games are so different from music in that way... they're much more iterative and you can't really complete them in one binge sitting.  When you make music, do you usually complete a song in one sitting?  For me I love when I can get a whole song out like that (well, the bulk of it at least... the production might take longer), so I really have to change my mentality to work on video games, hehe.   

@neoshaman: Ah, that's too bad   I hope you'll be able to check it out sometime though!

@BinaryMind: Thank-you for playing, I'm really glad that you're enjoying it ^_^  To answer your question, the demo does end... if Dolby just joined your party then there should be one more section before it's done (Debonet).  Thank-you for letting me know about those bugs, too!  I'll try to see if I can fix those... (thus far I haven't been able to fix the timing thing on the Hawk wanted poster, but perhaps I can figure something out) 

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

@supershigi: saturated dreamers will be about as non-linear as games get -- it's a little like the first zelda game, if you've played that. in the first zelda game, you could go to the dungeons in any order, get items in different orders, explore the world as you like, and so on. although it had a 'recommended' path (the dungeons were called level 1, level 2, etc.). the first two fallout games used a similar system: you could explore the world in any order, but there was a recommended path (enemies getting easier to harder). SD is like them, but doesn't even have a recommended path, so it's even more non-linear. the story is told nonlinearly too, but in various different ways. for instance, every 5% or so of the map you explore, you get a new flashback. most of the story and most of the game world are optional; it's possible to finish the game only seeing like 10% or so of everything, or less.

[supershigi]

Oh nice, I don't think I've played a game that was both very non-linear and also had a deep story... I'm curious though, given that you could explore the world in any order, how will leveling up work with battles and stuff like that?  Are all the enemies created so that no matter where you are, their levels simultaneously increase based on how much experience you have?  If so that's pretty awesome.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

it's not really a rpg in that sense. you do collect a party of characters and there is a story told through dialogue textboxes, but you don't level up (you improve the ship's functions, though), nor do you kill enemies (you friend them, including friending bosses). creatures increase in abilities with respect to distance from the center of the map, and since you begin in the center, you begin near creatures which are easy to friend. i probably should put up a video one of these days to show how it works better.

[rekcah]

@rekcah: Haha, that's awesome that your friends will harass you about it until you finish it ^_^  Whenever I come back to the thread and see a bunch of replies I always get a boost from that!  Games are so different from music in that way... they're much more iterative and you can't really complete them in one binge sitting.  When you make music, do you usually complete a song in one sitting?  For me I love when I can get a whole song out like that (well, the bulk of it at least... the production might take longer), so I really have to change my mentality to work on video games, hehe.    

Yeah, usually I'm able to complete a song in one sitting. But, there are a couple songs (mainly progressive) that took awhile for me to finish.

I've developed 3 games already (finishing my 4th) and I'm still adjusting my mentality to the slow pace of game development haha. Writing music is like instant gratification for me. I can instantly hear the result of what I'm doing. Hearing it come together excites me. Developing a game or software can get tiresome. It takes awhile before I start to get excited about a game I'm working on. I have to see things working how I wanted them to.

Patience is key when it comes to game development  

[supershigi]

@Paul: Ah, that makes sense... so it's sort of like how in Urquan Masters the easier guys are near the Earth, but it gets progressively tougher as you get further out into the galaxy?  I like that, it makes exploration feel more natural.  Melolune is fairly linear (especially the demo), although I'm trying to add a lot of sidequests and random areas in order to give the player more of an exploration-feel.  And yes, you should definitely post a video... I'm especially curious about the whole "friending the enemies" thing.  I've always liked the element of diplomacy in games (even if it's as simple as regular dialogue or giving gifts like in Harvest Moon or Animal Crossing).

@rekchah: Same here, there are a few songs of mine that took me multiple attempts (I kept rewriting the verses or the chorus because they didn't feel right).  Though I must say that my favorite songs (and I think my best ones) are the songs that came out really quickly and naturally.  Ah, if you're on your 4th game then you're probably totally used to the difference by now!  This is only my first game, so I'm still getting used to it, hehe... when I first started out I kept having to tell myself "one step at a time" because I couldn't believe how long it would take me to do one section, and then to imagine that there were going to be hundreds more after that >_< ... you're certainly right about the patience thing.  Do you usually do all the production yourself when it comes to music?