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TIGSource ForumsCommunityTownhallForum IssuesArchived subforums (read only)Archived ProjectsBalding's Quest (Moderator: BMcC)Balding's Quest: Public Build One
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Bezzy
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« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2007, 10:49:40 AM »

I agree with the doctor, and would suggest that you're not afraid to "break" animations if someone needs to do an action immediately, as in the example. For instance, if you are climbing up a ledge, and jump is re-pressed during that, you could simply snap the dude to the end of the animation and have him jump, or "queue" the jump but speed up the animation.

In any game where there are animation windows, there is always the desire for more immediate controls, regardless of how quick the animations are. You simply can't stop that desire. If there are going to be animation windows, that have to be by design - something important to the core mechanics of the game. Otherwise, they're just artifacts of FSM animation.

That said, it really is fine for the most part. This is total nitpicking on my side. And I am most likely wrong about this because apparantly, last time I was in charge of a platform game, the project didn't finish before all the developers left.  Sad Cry
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Bezzy
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« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2007, 10:55:21 AM »

Just had a thought about how to do mid-air stuff in general, based on what you said about air acceleration and trying to match an animation to it. Rather than a fixed animation, you do a sorta... "faked animation blend"

So we have a grid of animation frames. Going from left to right you have lateral velocity. Going from top to bottom, you vertical velocity. You pick the frame based on the current lateral and vertical velocity. So if your lateral is high and Guy is moving up, you pick the top right frame of animation.

Do... do you see what I mean? The width of it (range of lateral jumps) wouldn't have to be that much... just two or 3 different speeds: standing, slow, and fast. The height would probably be more important, especially for that "4 falling states" thing Arne's throwing around.

Then you'd have a generic landing which hopefully could link into these nicely. In my experience you'll need a standing landing and a running landing, too. Rolls normally look nice for running landings.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 11:15:08 AM by Bezzy » Logged

BMcC
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« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2007, 11:11:24 AM »

If there are going to be animation windows, they have to be by design - something important to the core mechanics of the game.

They certainly are!  But I do hope to work in breaks, and definitely shortcuts.

Just had a thought about how to do mid-air stuff in general, based on what you said about air acceleration and trying to match an animation to it. Rather than a fixed animation, you do a sorta... "faked animation blend"

That's an idea we'll definitely have to play with.  I'm cool with the oldschool generic jump animation for now, but maybe later on we could introduce more coolness.

As for the stages of falling -- that's as easy as tacking on more frames to the falling animation, and only having them cue after a certain amount of time.
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BenH
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« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2007, 11:25:07 AM »

I really like what you've done so far, and I think this project was a really good idea, but I can't help thinking that with so many people involved it might do more bad than good? I don't know, the whole "too many cooks spoil the broth" thing comes to mind. Everyone's got their own ideas how the game should play and I think that's why its good to have specific people assigned to certain roles rather than have everyone chiming in with anything and everything.. Then again it is a community project so I guess its hard not to do it like that. Still, I hope it all works out in the end. Smiley
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Bezzy
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« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2007, 11:30:02 AM »

Arne has final say, 'natch.
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BMcC
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« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2007, 11:49:16 AM »

I really like what you've done so far, and I think this project was a really good idea, but I can't help thinking that with so many people involved it might do more bad than good? I don't know, the whole "too many cooks spoil the broth" thing comes to mind.

I'm right with you, but don't worry -- that's not how this project set up.  And I'm good at filtering input.

Arne has final say, 'natch.

I thought I had the final say...  Cry

You're right, though.  There are but a few core people making any changes.  Input will always be considered, but Arne and I have pretty clear vision, I think.  We're not going to let this thing get steered in the wrong direction.
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Caio
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« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2007, 11:51:20 AM »

Oh, both you and Arne have the final say.

It's just a matter of which comes last.
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BMcC
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« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2007, 11:53:07 AM »

Haha, yeah.  Smiley

And I don't think I'd ever "make a decision" if it weren't OK with Arne.
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Alex May
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« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2007, 12:27:45 PM »

Some feedback, haven't read the thread:

  • It plays well, no bugs found and the platforming is solid.
  • Graphics are working well but you all knew that already.
  • I wanted to be able to get off ladders and onto ledges without having to hit jump.
  • I wanted to move around just that little bit faster - I think some of the animations may be a little too long. The walk speed is fine, it's more things like getting down onto ladders and stuff.
  • The variable speed of animation playback can be a little confusing and jarring.
  • The ladder animation looks wrong, as though his feet are not doing any of the work.
  • Designing a game to be played fullscreen is fine by me, as long as you detect widescreen monitor resolutions first and compensate for that with your resulting display.
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« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2007, 12:37:44 PM »

The movement was fine for me, it's a slower paced game and everything felt pretty smooth.  The only thing I think is too slow is ladder climbing speed. I played in fullscreen but as a quick fix it would be nice to allow for 2x (or 4x) size windowed mode for people that can't or don't want to play in fullscreen.
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BMcC
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« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2007, 01:02:07 PM »

Some feedback, haven't read the thread:

Such efficient feedback!  I agree with (and will take care of) everything you mentioned, but I need more information on one point:

The variable speed of animation playback can be a little confusing and jarring.

Huh?   Huh?  That shouldn't be happening!

I played in fullscreen but as a quick fix it would be nice to allow for 2x (or 4x) size windowed mode for people that can't or don't want to play in fullscreen.

We'll have support for all that stuff later on, you bet.
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Alex May
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« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2007, 01:13:02 PM »

It felt like some animations had a faster frame rate than others. Just a minor point I guess. Perhaps I imagined it! There's no reason why some animations should have a higher fps than others, but it feels a bit arbitrary at the moment, as though some anims have had more attention than others.

Looking good anyway, the tight spaces are really awesome.
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« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2007, 01:16:54 PM »

Has anyone pointed out the resemblance between this and Donkey Kong for Gameboy or is it just me? Great work guys, if I can help in anyway just ask.
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Inane
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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2007, 01:32:16 PM »

Great job so far, everyone. No suggestions from me. I did find it to be a little slow at first, but after a few minutes I was like a mad ninja with a ring of agility + 5.

I made a goblin, by the way. I could animate him if you so want, BmCC/Arne.
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real art looks like the mona lisa or a halo poster and is about being old or having your wife die and sometimes the level goes in reverse
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« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2007, 01:39:48 PM »

It felt like some animations had a faster frame rate than others.

Oh yeah, that's true.  That's not by design, it's just that the animations were all done by the kind folks in the community, so some have more frames and different timings than others.  Getting the animations to play nice with each other has actually been the toughest part of this project for me so far.

Has anyone pointed out the resemblance between this and Donkey Kong for Gameboy or is it just me? Great work guys, if I can help in anyway just ask.

Arne's concept was inspired by the single screen platform games of yore, so I could see Donkey Kong similarities popping up.  Though, I don't have the GameBoy version...

I made a goblin, by the way. I could animate him if you so want, BMcC/Arne.

It's a fact:  Goblins are awesome.  (Go for it!  I'd rather have more assets to work with than less.)

Re: Tonight --  I've actually got to go somewhere in a couple minutes and I won't be back 'til tomorrow morning.

Get the ideas and graphics and stuff rolling again in the Milestone Two thread, homies!  It'd be great to see a bunch of fun new stuff in there when I return.

Thanks for all the feedback, folks.  I'll keep chippin' away at this thing.
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Arne
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« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2007, 03:00:16 PM »

Arne has final say, 'natch.
Well, we're gonna have to do some cherrypicking to ensure the soup gets a nice taste.

And BMcC is making more calls than I am, since he's coding. Coding is after all about describing something really, really well. The descriptions I gave were very vague and BMcC has already nailed most things and is sailing in the agreed direction. I'll be doing some level design stuff now, when I can find the time. I think we both wanted the same game, I just happened to have made a page about it.

I'm just happy and excited he's willing to spend time coding/designing this, without him there'd still just be a geeky page ranting about old single screen platform games.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 03:08:39 PM by Arne » Logged
Alex May
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« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2007, 03:13:30 PM »

It felt like some animations had a faster frame rate than others.

Oh yeah, that's true.  That's not by design, it's just that the animations were all done by the kind folks in the community, so some have more frames and different timings than others.  Getting the animations to play nice with each other has actually been the toughest part of this project for me so far.

I suggest imposing more rigid guidelines on animation so that they play at the same frame rate. It would ease your pain and look better IMO!
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« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2007, 03:17:04 PM »

Oh, I'd forgot... the team should be called Team Balding and the community Their Minions. So it'd be a game made by Team Balding and Their Minions.

That would probably be the lamest team name ever. Tongue
« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 03:40:54 PM by Akhel » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2007, 03:51:45 PM »

Just jumping here to say, perhaps this no longer belongs to the art thread? just a thought and sorry if this was said already, havent had the time to read the whole thread Tongue

And congrats you all, you are making an amazing work there!
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Derek
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« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2007, 04:11:42 PM »

I think I'm going to set up a separate "Community Forum" for projects and competitions. Grin

Perhaps Feedback will go in there as well?
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