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[Curseman]

I've been meaning to give this game a try for a while, and only just now got around to it.

I'm surprised at how good it is!  Nice job!  You did a great job coming up with all of the character powers.  It can be hard to choose what to take with so many good options.

I like the talent mode option just because it lets you try different perks out without needing to go through the game time and time again.

I think the fist could use a slightly larger hitbox.  I don't think that it's anywhere near a match for the stars right now.  Even with the instant-kill fist upgrade isn't a match for the stars' stock 1 upgrade, since fists lack the all important ability to attack beneath you, and those dirty little punks that constantly shoot upwards are by far the most dangerous enemies in the game.

Currently Under Consideration: Fall Damage.
I think it's a core of one part of the gameplay, but not of another. Sometimes it adds an interesting challenge, other times it can be frustrating. I'm torn between keeping fall damage, and toning it down/removing it :[

Allowing the player to fall another block or two without taking damage may be worth considering, but personally I think fall damage is much to integral to the game to consider taking it out.

So I'm guessing the game never ends, yeah?



I think I was level 8 or 9 here.  The only thing that can kill you at that point is being knocked off of a cliff.  What are the chances of an aerial version of the "stance" perk making it into the game?

Edit:

Kikaru, you'll have to be a little disappointed -- it's definitely staying at 4. Even I, who have been playing a long time ( and made the game o_O; ), have only juuust managed to nab a 5th point in Potential D;

That's a good call.  With 5 points you can get both stock ++ and double jump, which are, in my opinion, the two best abilities in the game.

[droqen]

Wow someone who is really good at the game.

My best is 10k points (edit: and 8 or 9 levels or something), but that's on my laggy laptop! (press B for fps,#objs display by the way...)

Vanguard, first, allow me to congratulate you!

Next:
I'm glad you like the variety in abilities! And I'm really glad the balance seems to be working out, making the choice an interesting one was a top priority of mine :] I find that the stars are becoming considerably more useful than I had originally thought, but the uber punch can still be pretty amazing when it comes to defeating some of the bosses (edit: I will take a look into the punch, but for sure the base punch will be staying the same). Squids are pretty nasty, I agree - something, though, that I find a bit amusing and also kind of cool, is that I prefer punching squids to starring them, when possible (and usually it's not toooo tough to get in position). Nice to see different preferences about, too!

( which version is this? )

Currently the game doesn't end ever. I'm really not sure how to end it, or how to line up the bosses, so it just keeps on going -- I'd like to ask, what do you think of making bosses appear more and more frequently (or in greater numbers) past the 1-km mark? Increase point potential, but eventually you'll be up against two (or three) bosses at once, constantly. ---> The point is I'd rather high depth and high score be a little bit more of a measure of skill over one of sustained luck(?), which it sort of seems to become once you go low enough (as difficulty actually starts to decrease due to having more and more abilities while enemies don't come too much more frequently). [Of course I'd still notch up the difficulty fairly slowly, wouldn't go dumping huge armies of bosses all at once]

Aerial "stance": It's something I was considering. I know that the knockback can be pretty deadly, at times. The Heart! and Star! abilities kind of felt lacking to me, so I might be replacing those.

... and I'm so glad you think fall damage is so integral to the game :] I don't know which version you played, but I upped fall distance by a block in the newest (0.91) version.


I've already said it, but I'll say it again; congratulations. I'm kind of in awe.

(edit: What's your take on the bosses, if you have one? How is their balance? Are any overly difficult? Do you find some stay on-screen too long and others not long enough? Or are these differences just interesting and don't feel terribly out of place?)

[Curseman]

Vanguard, first, allow me to congratulate you!

Thank you!

I find that the stars are becoming considerably more useful than I had originally thought, but the uber punch can still be pretty amazing when it comes to defeating some of the bosses (edit: I will take a look into the punch, but for sure the base punch will be staying the same).

Bosses go down with very little fuss when you have big stars and stock++.

The punch has a number of problems.  First, its hitbox is small and close to the player's hitbox.  Punching enemies that react to getting hit (like those guys that jump really high) can result in the player taking damage, and getting too close to enemies with ranged attacks can be risky.  Second, the punch can't hurt enemies above or below you.  Third, it's useless in midair, where stars are still good.  This is particularly significant since many of the game's enemies fly or at least spend a lot of their time jumping around.  Fourth, getting the uber punch requires you to take the upgraded punch perk and two digging perks.  This isn't that big of a deal since taking the first digging trait is a great idea, and the other two are useful, but it does limit what you can do with your character if you want the uber punch.

None of these weaknesses break the punch by themselves, and even with them it's not useless, but stars don't have as many flaws.

For my first few attempts I tried starting my character off with the double damage punch perk and building around that, but it's just not as effective as stars are.

I bet that adding a way to punch in midair would go a long way towards evening the two out.  Maybe it would be worth starting the player doing two damage and replacing the punch+ perk with something else?  I don't know how that would play out, but it's something to consider.

( which version is this? )

It's version 0.91.

Currently the game doesn't end ever. I'm really not sure how to end it, or how to line up the bosses, so it just keeps on going -- I'd like to ask, what do you think of making bosses appear more and more frequently (or in greater numbers) past the 1-km mark? Increase point potential, but eventually you'll be up against two (or three) bosses at once, constantly.

That might be a cool idea.  It'd definitely get pretty intense.  Dying in the horrible chaos of three bosses ganging up on me sounds better than being unstoppable until a squid's shot bumps me mid-jump over a cliff.

Aerial "stance": It's something I was considering. I know that the knockback can be pretty deadly, at times. The Heart! and Star! abilities kind of felt lacking to me, so I might be replacing those.

The stomp abilities are fun, but I'm not convinced they're worth two perks.  Maybe consolidating them into one would work out?  Star! looks good on paper, and for my first few runs I went for it, but yeah, in practice it's just not even close to as good as stock+ or stock++.

(edit: What's your take on the bosses, if you have one? How is their balance? Are any overly difficult? Do you find some stay on-screen too long and others not long enough? Or are these differences just interesting and don't feel terribly out of place?)

I think they're good.  They're all dangerous.  I think the shooting ones are a bit of a bigger threat than the digging ones, but that might be because I go with the double jump + infinite stars build (meaning that I have the advantage against close range attackers and can deal with gaps in the floor).

The spidery one that shoots clusters of shots seems to stay on screen for the shortest time since he can't break blocks, but he makes up for it with the fact that his shots linger around forever.  I don't think any are overwhelmingly difficult, but all of them are challenging.  I don't have any recommendations.

[droqen]

Cool. Thanks. What a short response I've got, huh? :p

But don't worry, I read it all, and I thank you for responding to everything in such detail!  

Rebalanced build, probably with some more stuff, is on the way. ( less typing=more coding   )


quick edit :: Uber punch's only prerequisite is Punch+

[Doktor_Q]

Pretty awesome so far. Still can't make it up to a boss, but that's because I always get impatient or something.

I've found my favorite combination of power to be Knees+, Star>, Spike armor, and the tunneling punch. It covers most of the bases needed to survive the environment.

[droqen]

Don't worry, Kikaru, I believe you can make it! And I'm glad you're enjoying it, and the shiny new Talent mode ^^

I hope that by the time you reach the first boss appearance it doesn't act as a solid wall to your progress, but I don't think it will be.

---> Just be on your toes, be careful, and especially on Talent, don't go far out of your way to kill enemies or pick up their bubbles. What's your best depth?

By the way! Version 0.92 is now uploaded, check first post.
Changelog 0.91 --> 0.92 (because I've never done one before)

• Abilities altered (THREE replaced with awesome new ones, and ability tree changed around.)
  
• 1. Star-related
• 2. Pickup-related
• 3. Injury-related
• Boss spawn pattern tweaked
• Punch hitbox increased in some situations where it was smaller - but its maximum is about the same. How cryptic of me.

Approaching final 1.00 version? Perhaps. I eagerly await music from my music man.

SOUND will fall into consideration too.

The stomp w/damage ability really does work without being two-tiered, I think.


edit : I have really been missing out on Stock++, starspam is great[/list][/list]

edit edit : If you downloaded 0.92 within the past five minutes, get the new one, I keep forgetting about this weird folder bug.

edit edit edit : Okay, there's a bug in the boss spawn formula. o_o let me weed that out.

As of most recent edit, things should be working but I'm still playing it out. Let it be known that I suck at making sure things work properly before releasing ^^

[zacaj]

Just one little thing Id like to add: All the text(HUD) on the screen can make it a bit hard to see some of it at times, maybe make it a bit smaller(especially distances, why are there 2?), or a bit transparent?

[mokesmoe]

I think the size is fine, but a little transparency would be nice.

[droqen]

Hmm. I'll see what I can do about transparency in the HUD...

[Curseman]

The new perks are good.  I really like the name you went with for the upgraded stance.

Multiple bosses put up a pretty good fight.  I think I've decided that the big-eyed ones that fire exploding shots are the most dangerous type.



I got a weird error (it happened in version 0.91 as well, but I forgot to mention it) where most of the text is replaced with dots.  It's similar to, but not exactly the same as that problem mokesmoe was having.  I have no idea if this is related to the problem or not, but I checked my task manager, and it said that the game was using about 90% of my CPU.

[mokesmoe]

The oddest part about this is that the words "Pickup Queue" still appear. You'd think everything would be messed up the same.

[droqen]

Yeah, I found those ones to be pretty nasty too. They used to be even worse though, and even after toning them down they're tough little bastards. And. I'm glad you like the name xD I'm still amazed by your ability to get so far, holy shit. How deep did you get there?! My god I can't even fathom

Alright, enough of that xD I think I'm approaching final version, but I need to weed out lag, bugs, and get sounds and music going ^^


That is a very weird bug, I will have to take a look to see what might be causing it. ... and, sorry >< It takes up about 50% of my CPU too, it frightens me. I still don't know if putting a nice FPS cap is even possible with Pyglet, and it kind of sucks D;

mokesmoe: So does "points", it's strange.


Final question,
Does this just happen after a certain point? Or does it start out like this? o-o

[Curseman]

How deep did you get there?!

This game is really streaky.  I get a bunch of bad runs where I die quickly, or I give up after a mistake, but after a few attempts I get some momentum going and become almost unstoppable.

Final question,
Does this just happen after a certain point? Or does it start out like this? o-o

It doesn't start that way.  It just arbitrarily happens while I'm in game, and it stays that way until I restart.  Most of the time it works just fine.  I don't think it's based on how long I've been playing or how far I've gotten, because it didn't happen in my old 12395 points/1.903 km run.

[droqen]

I know what you mean, it's definitely that way with me too -- I've just never done so well even on my best streak, you still made it 2km even with the new boss spawns? o___o (You get two at a time past 1km, right?)

Have to fix the lag, I've noticed that sometimes it's much laggier than other times for whatever reason and it bothers me ><


And alright, I'll see what I can do. That's definitely... weird.

[Doktor_Q]

I should draw to your attention that the generator is still periodically making levels with literally no way down. It seems to be little more than an unfortunate coincidence, but you should look into some way of ensuring a clear path at all times.

[droqen]

;_; I was hoping to put it off but it seems I'll have to deal with it here and now.

[Doktor_Q]

Well, with the digging bonus I managed to not die on some of those. Also, finally reached the first boss, and it was one of the digging things. Needless to say, I died quite quickly. Is he invulnerable from below?

[droqen]

Kikaru: Yes, the huge drill is invincible; you've got to hit his head.

And congratulations for making it that far :3

[mokesmoe]

I can reach the first boss easily, but can't manage to even hurt (nevermind kill) it. I can sometimes get level 3 before fighting it, but it doesn't really help that much.
I usually go punch+, then stars+. (or legs+ if I'm in immediate danger of falling) Don't really have a set plan for level 3 though.
Haven't played the new version yet though, will probably switch things up.
Somehow I do better at potential than at talent. Overconfidence I guess.

[Curseman]

I always start with star> and usually I'll take stock+ second.  Knees+ is good, and it opens up my favorite perk, double jump.  Big stars are really good once you have stock+, and they're even better with stock++, but it's not necessary.