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[mokesmoe]

Now that stomp and stomp+ are one ability, it's a quite good one. I died once from this ability though: The drill boss managed to juggle me off the top of the screen. I jumped on it once, then it jumped up into me to bounce me off the screen, then it jumped at me again, keeping me off screen long enough for me to die. (On the plus side, most damage I've ever done to a boss )
Also, Is the drill supposed to be able to change directions in midair?

EDIT: I just bounced off an enemy while right under a black block and went through it.
Also, If you have spike armor and are walking from spike to block theres a one pixel hight difference that makes to have to jump, could make it so the person can just walk up that pixel.

EDIT 2: Can go through ceilings just normally taking damage.
You can't bounce off enemies when your invincible.
Stomp and knees+ are a very good combo.

[droqen]

The exact balancing of Stomp has been difficult to manage.

See, the problem with it is what to do with the player immediately after stomping -- my current solution is to make him temporarily invincible, but that may have been a mistake. I'm testing out removing that aspect of stomp entirely - you bounce off and that's that. You can even stomp enemies while you're invincible (but not while you're stunned).

That (passing through blocks after taking damage) is an ongoing bug I do need to fix, though I can't for the life of me figure out what causes it.

I will work on stepping up a pixel.

The drill is supposed to be able to change directions in mid-air but only to a point.

And wow o_o that sounds awesome I can't believe it did something like that.


I'm feeling weird today, so I cut this post short right now.


edit :: Let me say that I really love how this game is turning out -- I went a completely star-free road and did better than I ever have in this build! I think I kind of prefer it too, a nice mix of punch + stomp with supporting abilities. I'm glad that where some prefer stars and do well, others can still go starless and do (fairly) well too ^^ I'm concerned that stomp is now a bit too useful to be honest, but we'll see. WE'LL SEE. Oh, and music is gonna be all good and dynamic and sound effects are on their way.

edit2 :: Stomp can be too good against Jumpers, but sometimes they go too fast and get their revenge. Good enough :]

[mokesmoe]

Unless your talking about something your going to change, you cannot stomp enemies while invincible. You also can't stomp on enemies twice in succession, which is probably due to the becoming invincible after stomping like you mentioned.

The downside to stomp is that it's almost useless against enemies that can shoot. (unless your really good, but it's still difficult) Also it's only really useful in open areas, as opposed to smash 2 and ghost star, the other tier 3 abilities, witch are better in cramped areas. And stomp sucks against the bosses, aside from the drill. (not counting my previous encounter)
Even with these downsides, Stomp does still feel like a bit much though. Maybe you could make the amount you bounce back up less, or make you only deal damage if you fall enough distance. (Maybe with Knees+ letting you do 2 damage if you fall past normal falling distance?)

I think you should be able to punch in mid-air. You could make X be punch and X + down be shooting a star down.

Also, does jumping affect fall distance? Like if theres a drop that you can just barely make by walking off, will you take damage of you jump off? Because sometimes it fells like it doesn't.

My current ability order is actually based off stomp:
First Star>, because downwards stars aren't very useful once you have stomp
Second Knees+, because it and stomp work amazing together.
Third Stomp, for obvious reasons.
Don't know what for fourth yet, but will probably go with spike armor, for more maneuverability.

[droqen]

I mean it's something I am going to change :]

What I may end up doing is making stomp only work once per landing. It'll still be just as useful against the bugs, the weak enemies who scurry around, while negating its incredible effectiveness against the Jumpers, and making it slightly more difficult to use against the Watchers (but only slightly).

Note: you can hold jump and you'll fly higher, even if you're just bouncing.

Mid-air punch is something I've had to consider, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to include it, sorry :] Stomp is the closest you're gonna get to that. I will also add bonus damage for stomp if you manage to hit an enemy past the regular fall height for damage ^^ (suicide jump!)

[JMickle]

Mid-air punch is something I've had to consider, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to include it, sorry :] Stomp is the closest you're gonna get to that. I will also add bonus damage for stomp if you manage to hit an enemy past the regular fall height for damage ^^ (suicide jump!)

i do this all the time

[Phasma Felis]

Wow, this is coming along nicely!

Just got a few interface suggestions now.

Could you make Enter do the same thing as Space during the game? This is so I can use the same button on my gamepad for both in-game pause and post-game reset. In general, using the minimum practical number of keys is friendly to gamepad owners.

Any chance of a fullscreen mode, or at least a maximized window option that blanks out the rest of the screen? I prefer not to have distractions on screen while gaming.

Finally, could you have the main menu position default to "Play Game" and the PlayGame menu default to the player's last Talent/Potential choice, at least after the first play in a session? This is just to get back into the action quicker after a loss. There's a lot of dying in this game, it's nice to be able to get back to it with a quick couple of clicks.

Funny thing, BTW, when I first saw the Talent option I thought it sounded totally awesome. So I started it up, picked my options, killed my first spider, saw the "no potential for growth" message, and got this really sad feeling in the pit of my stomach... I guess it's the lure of advancement that really keeps me coming back to this game! I quit on the spot and started a Potential game instead. Never went back. Different strokes for different folks, huh?

[droqen]

I have fixed
99% of all already-rare total blockade cases. (It's still possible, but even more unlikely than ever before.)
Some lag in repeated plays (I forgot to properly delete the menu object, and it was re-created each time you came back!)
Physics issues (no longer will you fly through blocks!)
Menu after quitting now returns to 'Play Game', and it will keep Talent/Potential picked out.
The functionality of the Spacebar is now entirely replaced by that of the Enter key. You can also use it in the menu. (I was going to make them synonymous but I didn't want people pressing space during highscore-name entering by accident)
---> spacebar (OR enter) works to bring up the pause menu now, felt weird without it!


Will consider a fullscreen mode though I'm not sure how to do it ^^


& Hah, I know what you mean. I don't know if the message is a bit too harsh, but Talent is meant to be a mode to do some experimentation (or training, practice) before popping into Probability -- not as a permanent mode you stick with as you try for high scores, depths. So if you ditch it, no problem :]

[Phasma Felis]

Wow, that was a quick response!  Sweet deal!

[Ben Kuhn]

Can you make the menu save the previous cursor location? It's a minor annoyance if (like me) you die a ton.
EDIT2: Wow topic reading fail. Sorry.

Also, I feel like the star's hitbox is kind of weird. I have serious problems throwing them at the black blobs - it seems like I too often overshoot. Same with the punch. And the fly-creatures will never come towards me, they always hide behind the boxes. Whine whine whine.

I don't know if it's intentional to make the character feel so utterly pathetic at the beginning, but it's just so hard to kill anything. Makes it quite frustrating, and makes most of my deaths happen early on. I think it's definitely a good idea in to reward the player with new abilities, but at the same time having the baseline state start out so clunky and awkward seems like it would be a turn-off for a lot of people. (I'm certainly turned off somewhat, though I may be wussier than most here.)

EDIT: Also, great style, the depth gauges are awesome, so is the "probability of death" meter. What does it actually mean?

I like the enemies, they're nice and varied.

Have you thought of adding different starting platform types? The standard opening level gets a little monotonous after a while.

I feel like I always buy star> first because it makes it so much easier to kill stuff. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, but it seems like the other ones just pale in comparison.

[mokesmoe]

I feel like I always buy star> first because it makes it so much easier to kill stuff. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, but it seems like the other ones just pale in comparison.

Punch+ is also very good, because most enemies have 1 or 2 health. Especially useful against octopi, because they usually spaz out and hit you otherwise, and blobs that are still in midair. Also, you din't need to rely on ammo.
Stance seems like it's just an option for people that hate knock back.
Star^ is a bit weak compared to Star> though. Maybe letting you use it in midair would be a nice buff?

[droqen]

Ben Kuhn:
I like the idea of different starting platform types.
Star hitbox: It might just be more like that the enemy hitboxes are slightly off, but the Watchers' (black blobs) hitboxes are slightly smaller than their top/bottom left/right edges because they're round. (everything is a rectangle)

And it sort of is the intention for the character to be pathetic right off the bat - if it bothers you too much, try Talent mode for a bit?

mokesmoe:
I used to think Star^ was more useful than Star> but now I agree with you somewhat. I recently found it very useful for attacking bosses, however.
And helll yes, punching those guys is great :]


I may add some form of Bestiary where you can see descriptions about each of the creatures, as well as bring slowly to light some of the game-world, simple as it is.

[Curseman]

EDIT: Also, great style, the depth gauges are awesome, so is the "probability of death" meter. What does it actually mean?

The probability meter is your life.  The higher the numbers it fluctuates around are the healthier you are.  If it's hanging around the single digits and flickering to zero every so often, you probably only have one hit left.

[mokesmoe]

mokesmoe:
I used to think Star^ was more useful than Star> but now I agree with you somewhat. I recently found it very useful for attacking bosses, however.

Letting you use it in mid air isn't that big of a buff anyways.
Bestiary sounds cool. Would shine some light on the bosses too, once you've found them. Maybe show show their max Hp after you've killed them at least once.

[droqen]

Star^ would be more useful if I could make the bosses who end up straying too high... stay alive for longer. When I have it, it definitely makes a few things a little easier, I notice.

Ghost Star is an ability I'm trying to acquire a taste for; it's kind of a subtle ability, but surprisingly useful is what I'm finding -- in the right circumstances. Especially against bosses who tend to be either beating you up or charging at your face.

Vanguard, thanks for clearing that up, I forgot to answer xD

I'll definitely get on a bestiary at some point. Boss Max HP: Possibly, but so far I've managed to avoid portraying any exact numbers related to health (anyone's health) and I might like to keep it that way. I'll certainly note their relative toughnesses though.

[Curseman]

I see two problems holding star^ back from being as good as star>.

1)  When you kill an enemy above yourself, it's less likely that you'll be able to acquire its powerup than it would be if they were beneath or adjacent to you.

2)  Enemies above you are less of a priority and less of a threat, because often times they'll get stuck on the level and be left behind, meaning that you don't need to waste your stars.  An enemy next to you horizontally, on the other hand, is more likely to be in your way.

Maybe it would be more useful if shooting powerups with stars made them quickly fall downwards instead of breaking?  I dunno.

[Ben Kuhn]

mokesmoe, Droqen: I still feel like punch+ isn't that useful. Especially given the massive synergy between star>, stock+, ghost star, stock++, super star, etc. that just isn't really there with the punches. Plus, I find it just as easy (if not more so) to kill octopi with two star>s than with a punch+. Not that I can kill them very well with either, because they always run away either way and they're too mobile for me to feel confident getting next to them.

Reasons punch+ feels sucky: can't hit airborne enemies at all; can't hit things coming in diagonally just above your head (black blobs have killed me on this many a time); seems like it might come out slowly? not sure about that one; and I can almost always get off two star>s, given the ammo pickup rate, so the double damage doesn't really feel like much of a bonus.

EDIT: I'm also getting the bug where all the text turns to dots. It appeared to be accompanied by some slowdown. Also, I think the level generator sometimes generates routes where the only way down is a jump that is too high without knees+. Maybe.

[JMickle]

i am 99% sure punch+ is a preference thing. I personally love it and the whole skill tree to follow, and always do better than when using any star tree.

[droqen]

I'm with JMickle on this one ^^ and to be honest it's something I feel really good about.

I have a feeling that if we started discussing the other abilities, we would run into similar disagreements of preference -- it's just that Punch and Star are the two most obvious (and they're pretty hefty in terms of point cost, too) trees to discuss, and they also start out earliest. As first tier abilities, every single person will tend to build an opinion of these most baseline of abilities before they do so for any others :]

While I wait for my music and sound effects, I'm trying to set up a small dynamic music sort of thing with a bit of test music I slapped together. Sounds kind of nice, though I'll be basing it off different things soon enough.


edit :: You will always be able to make your way down; though the path may be treacherous, there will always, ALWAYS be an open-air path to the bottom edge of the screen -- I guarantee it personally. Note that this will only hold after version 0.92 and if you do find a real blockade in a newer version (obviously yet to be released) I'd very much appreciate being allowed to see it! Print screen is your friend.


Most recent news: Music has been ADDED SUCCESSFULLY, JMickle is awesome, and I forgot to update the credits :/ oh well

[Doktor_Q]

Got this error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "pzero.py", line 21, in <module>
  File "pyglet\resource.pyc", line 577, in media
  File "pyglet\media\__init__.pyc", line 1386, in load
  File "pyglet\media\riff.pyc", line 202, in __init__
pyglet.media.riff.WAVEFormatException: AVbin is required to decode compressed media

[mokesmoe]

There have been times where I was stuck because I fell in a hole too deep to climb out of.
Although that could be avoided, something like this could happen:

Code:

#  #######
#  #     #
#  #     #
#  #  #  #
#  #  #  #
#     #  #
#     #  #
#######  #

And you wouldn't be able to get past, even though there would still be a open passage down.