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[Unicycles]

Hey everyone, I just joined this forum as I hope to get back into game design and I thought involving myself with other programmers might give me the inspiration to keep going instead of giving up again.

Problem is...I'm Still quite new to the whole scene. I've used game maker on and off for a few years, that taught me the basics of programming but i feel like it isn't "real" programming, I did some lessons in c++ but can't recall too much right now. I also tested out Darkbasic but that didn't seem to suite my needs.

I'm interested in short "interactive art" styled games mostly in 2D. Possibly raycasting 3D styles down the track (i think that's what it's called).

So where should I start? I know there are a few programs out there but what one would be best suited to a semi-newbie like me?

[ChevyRay]

I've used game maker on and off for a few years, that taught me the basics of programming but i feel like it isn't "real" programming...

Lose this mindset immediately and you'll do just fine

Welcome! Your username is awesome.

[powly]

Well, I went from a GML-like BASIC variant straight to C++, it didn't get overwhelmingly hard because I didn't push it too hard. Just learn it nice and slowly.

[Zaphos]

This might get a better response in the technical forum ...

It's a bit hard to say what you want, but processing might be a fun one to try out -- it's designed to be really easy to pick up and start experimenting with, and under the hood is just java.

[team_q]

Give Unity a kick at the can. C# XNA is a good way to ramp up to quality games quickly.

[Unicycles]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll brood over these for a while and make a decision

Unity has sparked my interest though because I really do need to learn some 3D modeling. I might start off there, stick with GM for the simpler stuff and dabble in one of the more complex languages such as C# XNA as a side project

and thanks ChevyRay :D

[Epitaph64]

Good luck! Game creation is one of the more gratifying self-improvement hobbies out there in my opinion.

[Core Xii]

Just learn C++. It's a lot more work but in the end you'll feel like a "real" developer.

Figuring out the compiling process is the hardest part... After that it transforms into a more friendly environment and you just write code, using a few libraries to do the tedious work for you.

[hatu]

I'd say Flash sounds like the right choice for 'short "interactive art" styled games'. You probably don't even have to code too much depending on what this means.

Unity has been recommended a lot for 3D stuff and I'm also looking into it now and it seems pretty excellent.

[Kadoba]

I'm interested in short "interactive art" styled games mostly in 2D.

IMO, I really don't think developing with general languages like C++ would be a good idea given this. The practical benefits of working with these would be lost for what you're trying to do. But you do gain all of the cons like dramatically increased development time and complexity.

I would say GM is perfect for your style of games. If you want something similar to GM but with more power try Construct.

Ultimately though do what works for you.

[s0]

I've used game maker on and off for a few years, that taught me the basics of programming but i feel like it isn't "real" programming...

Lose this mindset immediately and you'll do just fine

Agreed. I started out the same, perhaps even more "extreme". I was prejudiced against all "game making programs", refused to even try them, and decided to be a "real" developer I had to learn C++, despite my utter lack of coding talent. I tried, but all I could ever get out of it were horribly bad, buggy games with ASCII graphics that thankfully never saw the light of day. Now that I use GM, I can finally get things done and make decent games.

At the end of the day, all that matters is making good games. Worrying about the "How" is a waste of time. I've seen great games made with all of the mainstream tools/languages. 

[jrjellybeans]

* Off topic *

Jeez Luis, I've never seen Game Editor!  When did it come out?  Is it easy to use?

If only GM were cross platform (and a tiny bit faster), I'd never look at another editor again

[Drew]

I'll second Processing or Flash. 

Processing is actually designed for artsy coding, so it might be a good choice.  It's basically Java, so it is a step toward commonly used programming languages even if you don't actually do anything with it. It is a bit limited, but people have done some amazing things with it.

Flash is my platform of choice right now.  You can build Flash applications with the free Adobe Flex SDK, or you can buy the Flash IDE if you want to use the fancy animation capabilities.  Either way, it's well suited for what you want to do. 

The best advice I can give is to pick something and stick with it.  You can waste a thousand hours deciding what platform to use, or you could spend that time becoming a badass with one of them.  Every platform has limitations, so no matter what you choose, you will find it wanting in some area.  Luckily, skills in one programming language are usually transferable to another, so even if you decide that you absolutely hate whatever you chose, your time will not have been wasted.

And don't underestimate GM.  Some incredible things have been made with it.

[Theotherguy]

My advice is to start low-level  and work your way up to high level applications.

I DO NOT mean start with game-maker and move to C++, I mean exactly the opposite.

Learn basic programming features and good habits in a very low level language like ANSI C. Then learn data structures and algorithms in a language like C++. Then develop games in a language like Java or C#. Make prototypes in GameMaker.

What this will do for you is make you appreciate all the low-level gruntwork at the higher level. You can't appreciate the immense power of garbage collection, for instance, until you've had to deal with memory management in C yourself. You won't appreciate classes in C++ until you've worked in an environment that didn't have classes like C. It will help you make better decisions about implementation and development.

I have found that many people are scared away from "real" software development because they've formed this voodoo-magic view of computing by starting in incredibly high level, abstract environments and then working their way down. They end up being frustrated and confused by the basics, because they have always taken these basics as assumptions.