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TIGSource ForumsCommunityCompetitionsOld CompetitionsAssemblee: Part 2Tiny Crawl (Complete- development continues!)
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Mikademus
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« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2009, 10:07:43 am »

I just die a lot. Ran into 5 trap rooms in one map, and got repeatedly attacked by rooms of 5 enemies... usually there is nowhere enough health even to get to the boss.

It is smooth and cool and fun, but somewhat frustrating.

You mean like a roguelike?
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Epitaph64
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« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2009, 04:14:58 pm »

This is exceptionally awesome Smiley I love the simple gameplay and the art style of it! It would be cool to add some sort of a persistence system also, to reward multiple plays (even if it were something as simple as an achievement system.) Also, if you select a mushroom that is under another, the mushroom above looks like a poisoned mushroom or something haha.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 09:17:03 pm by Epitaph64 » Logged

J. R. Hill
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« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2009, 09:39:10 pm »

Whoa, wish I tried this out sooner, really addictive!
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Hangedman
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« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2009, 05:10:13 am »

You mean like a roguelike?

Not really. Usually in a roguelike you die as a result of morbid curiosity or stupidity or something that's generally your fault. Having a level spawn monsters and traps around the starting room so you expressly cannot survive more than three steps out from the center, that's something else.

Also, since I made that post I had a level finally give me a spell, and then I just crushed everything.
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J. R. Hill
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« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2009, 05:51:22 am »

For some reason sometimes I do not get first strike?
Seems like you only get first strike the first time you enter a room, after that the monsters will always get you when you enter.

Really fun, got past the 5 level demo.
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Mikademus
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« Reply #45 on: December 25, 2009, 12:47:12 pm »

You mean like a roguelike?

Not really. Usually in a roguelike you die as a result of morbid curiosity or stupidity or something that's generally your fault. Having a level spawn monsters and traps around the starting room so you expressly cannot survive more than three steps out from the center, that's something else.

Also, since I made that post I had a level finally give me a spell, and then I just crushed everything.

I always appreciate a good reply! My Word!
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Silbereisen
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« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2009, 05:02:05 am »

You obviously never played Nethack.

I just got around to trying and I gotta say it's amazing, possibly my favorite playable entry so far. Also, is it in any way inspired by the board game Dungeonquest because it reminded me a lot of that.  Wink
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easynam
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« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2009, 05:24:35 am »

Are we meant to be able to mash the attack button to kill every enemy in the room before they react?

Anyway, this game is really fun! I'm looking forward to seeing it completed Smiley
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J. R. Hill
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« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2009, 01:13:50 pm »

Are we meant to be able to mash the attack button to kill every enemy in the room before they react?

Anyway, this game is really fun! I'm looking forward to seeing it completed Smiley
I'm pretty sure they mash as hard as you're mashing, but I could be wrong.
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Nandrew
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« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2009, 10:27:56 pm »

I saw this one on IndieGames, and wanted to come by to give my regards. This game, Sparky, is effing awesome. Even if it's only 5 levels so far. Tongue

Funnily enough, I've not come across the healing spell mentioned by people earlier in the thread (curse of random generation, or mebbe non-thorough exploration). But now I'm wondering if things wouldn't be more balanced for spells in general if the cooldown was based on dungeon exploration rather than turns taken? As in, you'd cast a spell, then explore one or two NEW rooms before the spell becomes available again? If rats can hatch from eggs, I'm sure you could take this little liberty too. :D

Oh, speaking of eggs: I find that if I re-enter a room and quickly spam attacks while an egg is hatching, I can kill what's inside before it attacks me (two free attacks, basically). The animation time seems to be at fault here.

(--EDIT--)

Speak of the devil, I've JUST found my first healing tab. I'd have to agree that it removes a rather vital part of the game's challenge -- the conservation of mushrooms becomes meaningless and I get to take a much more laissez-faire attitude towards the dungeons.

You mean like a roguelike?

Not really. Usually in a roguelike you die as a result of morbid curiosity or stupidity or something that's generally your fault. Having a level spawn monsters and traps around the starting room so you expressly cannot survive more than three steps out from the center, that's something else.

Also, since I made that post I had a level finally give me a spell, and then I just crushed everything.

That's a fair point, though quite a few Roguelikes (Crawl, Nethack) actually admit that you'll occasionally get situations which are just too "out-of-depth" for a player no matter what course of action is taken (like Tiamat spawning right next to the effing door the moment you enter the Realm of Zot <_<). It's an interesting problem, because while it could be considered frustrating, it also adds a level of tension unseen in other games -- and Roguelike players tend to be more eager for punishment in general, so *maybe* this design decision is justified. Or maybe it's not! Beer!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 10:36:16 pm by Nandrew » Logged
oryx
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« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2009, 12:18:17 am »

Are we meant to be able to mash the attack button to kill every enemy in the room before they react?

Anyway, this game is really fun! I'm looking forward to seeing it completed Smiley
I'm pretty sure they mash as hard as you're mashing, but I could be wrong.

Spacebar mashing works as intended (turns) - mouse attack mashing skips the turn queue and lets you kill everything before they attack.
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Sar
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« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2009, 02:59:08 am »

In other news:

  • Ability to click on map and mark traps added

It seems this might not be working properly, either.

I mean, I can click on the map fine, and little circles appear. But also, quite frequently when I click on spell tabs or attack buttons (and only when I click, not when I use the keyboard shortcuts) I get an index-out-of-range error (debug flash plugin). Not all the time, and coincidentally I also keep finding a lot of extra little circles marked on the map. I'm just guessing, of course, but it seems to me not-unlikely that the two are related, both phenomena started at the same time.
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« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2009, 10:46:46 pm »

Thanks for the feedback, folks. I'm back after the holidays, and I'm looking forward to getting this game into good shape before the end of this competiton. As I'm sure a lot of you are aware, this is a very early version and a lot remains to be worked out and fixed. Thanks for putting up with the very incomplete state of the builds I've been putting up.

Are we meant to be able to mash the attack button to kill every enemy in the room before they react?

Anyway, this game is really fun! I'm looking forward to seeing it completed Smiley
No, err, that's rather embarrassing. Cheesy
Thanks easyname, were you using the mouse or the keyboard to attack? I fixed a bug tonight that should address this issue if you were using the mouse.

Sar-
The 'extra circles' bug is interesting. I haven't yet encountered that myself. The index out of bounds issues are also a good find, thanks.

Oryx-
You're right, I made a mistake and didn't check that it was the player's turn when handling the attack button being pressed. The same was true of spell buttons. This should work correctly as of tonight.

Nandrew-
You raise a couple of points that are on my mind a lot lately. One is item and spell placement. I'm experimenting with giving us one free spell of our choice at the very beginning of the game. My hope is that this will help us get a head start with our character build of choice, instead of leaving us entirely dependent on random item placement. I'm also considering having spell rooms always contain two spell tabs instead of one- the idea being that we could choose between them (and the discarded tab would be destroyed).
The second point here is also something I'm currently trying to work out- how should spell cooldowns (particularly healing) work? Healing tabs (and summon tabs) are currently rather exploitable because running back and forth between empty rooms recharges them at no cost. This is obviously not very interesting strategically. The eventual goal is for healing tabs to alter the cost of healing, not to make it free. Basing spell recharge on exploration could work well; that's a good suggestion. I'm also considering other ideas, such as a second resource that limits spell use (one of these items would be used up per spell used).
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Loren Schmidt
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« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2009, 11:10:29 am »


New Version
Play Untitled Dungeon Crawler v.0.21

changes:
  • Turn order broken (will be fixed in near future!)
  • Initial spell selection UI added (click, or use 1-4 keys as shortcuts)
  • Sword and armor powerups limited to 1 per dungeon
  • Room sliding animation added to map

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oryx
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« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2009, 12:45:15 pm »


    • Room sliding animation added to map


    Can you put extra stippled border around the edge of the map (so the white doesn't scroll in at the edge of the map)?

    Also some tooltip or text at the initial spell selection would help.

    Oh, and you need a title! and a sweet title screen!  Smiley
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    SirNiko
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    « Reply #55 on: December 30, 2009, 12:59:52 pm »

    You should edit the first post to contain the link to the most recent version.

    -SirNiko

    Edit:

    Played through again. Difficulty seems to be better now. Fights seem to cut a lot closer, although they aren't actually much more difficult. I consciously target foes I can kill in one hit, or the ones that deal slightly more damage. Before I just attacked blindly knowing I would win.

    It still seems like the only logical choice to start is the healing spell, as keeping up your HP seems like a critical choice. Perhaps you should re-envision how HP works in your game? Make HP auto-recharge out of combat, in certain healing rooms, or makes all healing items have limited charges? I dunno. At any rate, starting with a healing spell makes the first two floors easy. If I didn't have healing, the multi-missile or charm would be a good second choice. I can't see myself ever choosing the single-target missile.

    I got the lightning bolt "charm" spell while exploring, so I waited and grabbed a swordy guy since they seemed the strongest. He took some hits in battle, which made survival easier. I also got the single-target missile spell, which I used because it was better than my sword (and I didn't already have a third spell).

    The second floor failed to spawn a sword or shield. I explored it in its entirety, and found nothing.

    By the fourth floor, I was using the multi-missile (which was still useful), my healing spell, and the charm spell helper. I was a little upset I couldn't trade out my present helper for a stronger one, but I realized finding a new charm spell would probably let me get a more powerful companion.

    I died on the fourth floor when I entered a room, used one multi-missile, and then perished when I did not have enough HP to survive the second round. I think maybe if I'd sworded one foe instead I could have fled and healed.

    General observations:

    Having two charm spell helpers at once seems to result in significant slow down.

    Once you have one healing spell, a second seems superfluous. Freeze bolts currently seem like useless items, but I can envision scenarios where I'd use them to freeze a powerful foe while I kill his helpers. The single-target missile is useless after you acquire two sword upgrades.

    I am currently clearing out entire dungeon floors, exploring every room. It seems like this is necessary in order to find both sword and shield, as well as to get all the spells. Once I have healing and two of the powerup spells, I feel like I would get the sword and shield, then exit the floor immediately.

    Sometimes I will encounter a dead-end room containing monsters. There's no point in fighting them that I can see, so I ignore them and leave the room monsterfied.

    On the final floor (5 in the demo) there's no point in exploring once you find a ladder, as descending completes the game.

    Once you have a healing spell and some room to move, I purposely enter trap rooms to check for treasure. It seems like I had a section of the dungeon that required me to go through a trap to reach it, but I could be mistaken. The threat of traps diminishes through the game due to more HP, although not as much now that shield upgrades are capped at one per floor. Sometimes I can pass through a trapped room to avoid a tough battle, although typically I find it's more effective to simply fight.

    Game feels like Minesweeper rather than a Rogue-like at the moment, as the logic is fairly simple in that typically death results from bad guesses, unlucky situations and misclicks. This is not a bad thing, depending on how you envision the game shaping up.
    « Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 01:40:00 pm by SirNiko » Logged
    Loren Schmidt
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    « Reply #56 on: December 30, 2009, 01:38:45 pm »

    Monster Patrols
    I'm tentatively making the move count be a resource of sorts. The current plan is that when we first enter a dungeon level there's a grace period, and we are able to freely move around and explore. After a certain number of rounds have passed, monster patrols start entering the dungeon (through the entrance we used?). These patrols move from room to room, pressuring us into finding an exit and leaving. We can defeat patrols at some cost, but they'll keep respawning and eventually we'll run out of resources and be forced to enter the next level.

    Oryx-
    Yeah, padding around map edges is a must. And I'll definitely be doing some kind of fun title screen and fleshing out the UI (it's all very rudimentary right now). Right now I'm putting all my time into functionality, so that probably won't happen immediately.

    SirNiko-
    Thanks, I've added a link to the first post.
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    J. R. Hill
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    « Reply #57 on: December 30, 2009, 05:02:52 pm »

    I'm still not 100% sure what the gem-shaped spell does.

    Also, if one of the floors doesn't have either a sword or shield power up it makes the next level really hard.  I'd kind of like it if killing a boss led you to a way to choose your power up (shield, sword, or a spell) instead of a random one, but then again it'd make it a lot easier that way.
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    Loren Schmidt
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    « Reply #58 on: December 30, 2009, 08:03:39 pm »

    Monster patrols are coming along- they work, but they're really rough around the edges. If they're presentable in time, I'll post a build containing them later tonight.

    jrhill-
    The gem-shaped spell is a partially implemented freeze spell. It'll immobilize the targeted enemy until three rounds have passed or the enemy takes damage.
    You're completely right about the sword and armor powerups. There's currently guaranteed to be exactly one of each in a dungeon level, but it's easy to miss them (and it will be significantly easier to miss them with monster patrols in). I think it might be a good idea to have some kind of system in place that acts as insurance against missing these items. Your idea of letting us pick our own powerup is good; I'm considering ideas like that which help iron out the randomness a bit.
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    J. R. Hill
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    « Reply #59 on: December 30, 2009, 10:16:08 pm »

    Actually I meant I went through a level (it was the second floor of one of my games) without getting either a sword or shield.  I spent about a minute checking all the rooms to make sure I didn't miss a path, but it was definitely absent.  There was a boss (that monkey griffon thing) that gave me two spells though.
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