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[Bezzy]

Arne - that impossible mission stuff conjures up memories that I had totally forgotten :D. Awesome stuff!

[BMcC]

Awesome, Bez!  (Can I call you Bez?)  That's perfect. 

Someone get that guy who made the great crawling animation back on here! 

[Derek]

Alright, here's where we're at:



I included some space for animations we don't need yet.  Bezzy, I think 32 x 32 is bigger than we need... the old animations are great for now.  If you have time, work on some new ones.

Also, BMcC, this is what I'm seeing at the end of Prom's posts:



Are you not seeing that?  If not, try and see if there are settings in your profile.

Great work, guys!

[Bezzy]

BMcC - No problems man. I'm jived about this, but I feel a bit like I'm cheating on my own project


Derek - I'm just following BMcC's orders  . Take a gander:

Hey, Bezzy -- it'd probably be easier to implement the ledge climbing animation if it were fixed on the corner of the platform, if you know what I mean.

But I can do that myself if it's too much of a bother.

Perhaps the approach I went with was a bit over complex. Just the first thing that came into my head. I'm afraid I've deviated too far from my current project to help out. However, could you clarify a bit? Maybe someone else doesn't mind doing the dirty work? Do you mean having a 32x32 animated tile, where the world isn't shifting? Cos that'd work, too.

It doesn't matter how big the animation frames are, but yeah, what I mean is if he's climbing up the ledge and actually moving his position from hanging on the side to the top, it'd be easier if the background in the animation was stationary.

In the case of his "normal" animations, they should loop easily with the focus on him.

[Arne]

@Arne:  I can't see any of your attachments!  Neither the one from last night nor the ones now!

This is very strange, what process would single out you, and my files. I guess if there was something wrong with my files, then no one else would see them. If there was something wrong on your side, then you wouldn't see any files. I have no clue what the connection is. Maybe I should upload on my ftp instead.

But it's bedtime.

[Derek]

@Arne:  I can't see any of your attachments!  Neither the one from last night nor the ones now!

This is very strange, what process would single out you, and my files. I guess if there was something wrong with my files, then no one else would see them. If there was something wrong on your side, then you wouldn't see any files. I have no clue what the connection is. Maybe I should upload on my ftp instead.

But it's bedtime.

I think it could be because he's a Global Moderator, because Alec is having trouble seeing them as well... I'll look into it.

[BMcC]

Alright, here's where we're at:

Oh cool, thanks a bunch man!  That'll help.

Bezzy, I think 32 x 32 is bigger than we need...

Heh, actually, I asked him to do that. 

Are you not seeing that?  If not, try and see if there are settings in your profile.

  I don't see anything like that at all!  Aaah, someone FTP please!

But it's bedtime.

Night, Arne!  Very soon you'll see your concept in motion. 

I gotta say, seeing your wonderful pixel art every time I compile and run has made development so much more pleasant than I'm used to.

[BMcC]

I think it could be because he's a Global Moderator, because Alec is having trouble seeing them as well... I'll look into it.

Haha, you mean we actually have less abilities than everyone else?!

You sly dog...

[Derek]

I think it could be because he's a Global Moderator, because Alec is having trouble seeing them as well... I'll look into it.

Haha, you mean we actually have less abilities than everyone else?!

You sly dog...

Check them now, it should work.

Also, whoops, I only read the part about putting the character in focus (missing that you said only for "normal" animations, not the part about keeping the background static.

Hmmm, 32x32 just seems like overkill for a character that small.  Is it a real pain to move the character in the code for the two ledge animations?

[Arne]

BMcC> I edited this post, try the link there now:
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=46.msg1040#msg1040

[BMcC]

Heh, thanks guys.  All I can say is: Sweeeet!

That looks SO fun.  It makes me want to put those tiles in RIGHT NOW.

But I must stay focused!

@Derek:  It wouldn't be too painful... But kinda painful. 

I was just trying to get around setting the spot each frame.

[BMcC]

Here's another. As you can see I'm using 3 tile high floors. This might be a problem, cuz he'd bump his head trying to jump over stuff.

According to your specs, he can jump over 8x8 stuff no problem.

As for that other stuff... no worries, mon. 

[Derek]

Alright, I gotcha... well, can those be in a separate spritesheet, then?  No need to make them all 32x32, right?

Btw, I just thought of a cool idea... it'd be neat if in one area there were some micro people (3 pixels tall?) that you could squash.  They could live in huts that are the size of the crates in Prom's mockup.  Not sure how it would relate to the gameplay, but it'd be fun.  Kind of like Gulliver's Travels.

[DrPetter]

Grrr, each time I try to post something I get that angry red text notifying me that someone has made my reply redundant. I say fuggit, I'm closing my eyes and posting anyways. This thread is way too active

Hmmm, 32x32 just seems like overkill for a character that small.  Is it a real pain to move the character in the code for the two ledge animations?

I don't see how it's overkill if it only affects those few animations that need it. The rest can be 16x16 since he said it would be ok with variable-sized images.
If it helps prevent some code ugliness/pain I say go for it big-time, I think the net result would be about 3k of "bloat" per frame compared to 16x16 - which is nothing compared to the total size of the game including all media, if it only applies to 10-20 frames in all.

We don't want to cause the poor programmer any unneeded discomfort. Broken artists can be replaced like flat tyres, but the project is in jeopardy if your lead coder runs out of juice

[BMcC]

Alright, I gotcha... well, can those be in a separate spritesheet, then?  No need to make them all 32x32, right?

Right, yeah.  I just want the frame size for each specific animation to be consistent within that animation.

Btw, I just thought of a cool idea... it'd be neat if in one area there were some micro people (3 pixels tall?) that you could squash.  They could live in huts that are the size of the crates in Prom's mockup.  Not sure how it would relate to the gameplay, but it'd be fun.  Kind of like Gulliver's Travels.

I like that!  That's exactly the kind of stuff I want to do with this game -- I want it to have this old school core aesthetic, but still take advantage of being made in the present.  So, if you wanted to have a ton of little people running after you, we don't have to be like, "But what about the PRECIOUS RAM?" or "We can't have that many sprites in a row."  We can JUST DO IT.^TM

I think the net result would be about 3k of "bloat" per frame compared to 16x16 - which is nothing compared to the total size of the game including all media, if it only applies to 10-20 frames in all.

That's what I was thinking.  I'll probably still optimize it later, but I was just looking for a quick fix so I can get things up and running first.  (I promise, it's the only one!  Everything else is being coded with EXTREME attention to the long term ramifications in mind.)

EDIT:  OK, back to coding, then Burger King, then more coding.

KEEP THE GOODNESS FLOWING

[PoV]

I don't see how it's overkill if it only affects those few animations that need it. The rest can be 16x16 since he said it would be ok with variable-sized images.
If it helps prevent some code ugliness/pain I say go for it big-time, I think the net result would be about 3k of "bloat" per frame compared to 16x16 - which is nothing compared to the total size of the game including all media, if it only applies to 10-20 frames in all.

We don't want to cause the poor programmer any unneeded discomfort. Broken artists can be replaced like flat tyres, but the project is in jeopardy if your lead coder runs out of juice

Yeah, the easiest way for a programmer to handle an animation, is for them not to have to handle it.  Technically, if all the frames of animation lived in a 32x32 space, with the player standing on the center (16x16), then BMcC could simply draw everything relative to that center point, and dump new assets in whenever he gets them.

Same thing goes for animation timings.  It'd be much simpler for the programmer if the frames were duplicated to represent an extra frame delay.

That is, unless the artist was writing a file for the offsetting and timings for them.  Though an artists time is best spent in the art application.

This approach on the surface is frowned upon, since it appears to be fat.  However, you can recover the space, and perhaps do even better by writing a tool.  The tool would look at all the frames, clip them to their smallest size, calculate the offset to where they would have been (before clipping them), and remove duplicates.  Nice and easy.

[PoV]

Everything else is being coded with EXTREME attention to the long term ramifications in mind.)

That's good to hear.  Opportunities are an interesting beast. 

[Derek]

I am convinced!  I think the best way is to just leave those animations separate then, at 32x32.  With everything else at 16x16.

[Dan MacDonald]

So this was a big mistake I've made devloping my own games that I wouldn't want to repeat. Assuming that the content is going to be a relatively fixed target. In my experience things like animations and items end up changing a lot over the course of the project. Especially in a case like this where so many people are contributing content.. what you really want to do is provide an easy way to get new content (like character animations, items + item animations) into the game so you don't have to worry about it.

A little xml file that someone could do along with the animation frames so you wouldn't have to hardcode everything and re-compile the changes ever time. Because, believe me, as the content grows it becomes more and more of a hassle until it gets to a point where you don't even want to add necessary things because it's such a drag, let alone cool little things like idle animations.

an example XML.. (off the top of my head)
<Character name="player">
   <Animation action="climb">
      <image relPath="climb.bmp" cellHeight="16" cellWidth="16"/>
      <frames>
         <frame imageIndex="0" xOffset="0" yOffset="0"  frameDelay="3"/>
         <frame imageIndex="1" xOffset="0" yOffset="-3" frameDelay="3"/>
         ...
      </frames>
   </Animation>
</Character>

If you could just write a loader and a playback mechanism in the game that could support something like that then you would make it WAY easier on yourself to add new content and you could offload more of it onto the volunteers :D.

[Derek]

It's almost embarrassing (to whom, I don't know) how awesome and potentially enlightening this project is.  I'm speaking way to soon, but if I had seen this thread when I was starting out making games I would have soiled myself with excitement.