next »

[Relix]

So, here I'm designing a sidekick, I first created it just to carry stuff like lanterns for the player and to serve as "mute hero". But now, I'd like it to have more uses and though that I should ask here, for ideas and stuff.

So, in more general, what kind sidekicks you like, if at all?
What do you want them to do? Do you want them just be sort of tools (like Tricky in SF: Adventures) or actually fight alongside with you?

More question coming later, maybe. 

[shadowdim]

I don't know if Tails can be considered a sidekick in Sonic 2 (Genesis/Medgadrive), but I used to love him, even if he kept dying. The good thing was, he could help Sonic by picking up rings or hitting monsters/bosses, but he did not lose rings when getting hit, and he didn't slow down the action either.

One thing is sure: if I have to manage my sidekick's actions, or if it becomes a source of frustration (Secret of Mana's non-played characters getting stuck and blocking the screen scrolling  ), I'm going to hate it.

[leonelc29]

I prefer they fight along-side with me, but of course, be a smart fighter, not just some sort of dumb AI that fight till he's dead. It's nice if the sidekick have some sort of ability that can help you in your adventure(just guest it's some kind of adventure game), like he can glow and light up your path or transform into vehicle or jetpack to reach high place. In my mind now is a robot thingy side-kick.

Mediocre, right?

[JasonPickering]

you should look at Mario and Luigi: Bowsers inside story. Mario and Luigi each have different  moves to help traverse the world.

maybe the sidekick runs really fast so you can get a piggyback ride for an extended amount of time. maybe you can throw the sidekick straight up to hit switches maybe you have to hold the sidekick so you are heavy enough to weigh down switches.

[Relix]

One thing is sure: if I have to manage my sidekick's actions, or if it becomes a source of frustration

Even if it's for puzzle solving?

(Secret of Mana's non-played characters getting stuck and blocking the screen scrolling  )

Oh god the nightmares ;__;

I prefer they fight along-side with me, but of course, be a smart fighter, not just some sort of dumb AI that fight till he's dead. It's nice if the sidekick have some sort of ability that can help you in your adventure(just guest it's some kind of adventure game), like he can glow and light up your path or transform into vehicle or jetpack to reach high place. In my mind now is a robot thingy side-kick.

Mediocre, right?

Whelp, in my game the sidekick doesn't have any HP, it can only be stunned by enemy attacks. So maybe it could do small fighting, but not too much...

Should've mentioned that the sidekick is a raven in my game, maybe "getting to the high" place could be done in a way, that it carries a rope to the destination and then the player can climb it...hmm.

you should look at Mario and Luigi: Bowsers inside story. Mario and Luigi each have different  moves to help traverse the world.

maybe the sidekick runs really fast so you can get a piggyback ride for an extended amount of time. maybe you can throw the sidekick straight up to hit switches maybe you have to hold the sidekick so you are heavy enough to weigh down switches.

Yeah've played all of the M&L games, great stuff in them.
But they sorta work differently in them because both of them are playable.

[Fifth]

You can look at Monster World 4 (Japan-only Genesis game, but was given a nice fan translation) for some good sidekick use.  The game gives you this flying creature called a Pepelogoo which you can pick up, carry, and throw.  Its main purpose is to give you a gliding drop as you carry it, as well as a second jump if you need it.  You can also throw it at certain obstacles for it to act as a platform, blow out torches, or find secret passages, or call on it to save you from drowning.

But throughout it all, its actions were natural and understandable.  There was one button to call it into your arms, and then jump would jump and attack would throw it.  However you manage the sidekick, just make sure it comes naturally.
And it's nice when the sidekick has uses beyond specific puzzle bits.  When it can attack enemies or help you move around.  Basic stuff that you can integrate into your normal play-style.

[Relix]

Monster World 4

This certainly sounds interesting and something that the DS game Monster Tale tried to be, I'll look into it.

A simple one button system sounds just right, or two at max if doing something more complicated.

[JasonPickering]

you could also look at Paper Mario. mario ended up with like 6 sidekicks and each one had a specific use outside of battle. in battle of course each one had different attacks with a small mini game attached (microgame?).

[baconman]

Think about the things the player can do alongside them...

-Hopping on them for a platformer lift
-Rescuing the player from traps they might get stuck in
-Throwing them for an effective, and possibly comedic attack
-Covering your rear as you move/focus forward (like reverse-firing in a shooter, or watching your back 180-degrees in Samurai/Dynasty Warriors)
-Team-up abilities (DKC and Kirby's Dream Land 3 provide great examples here, so does The Simpsons arcade game)
-An optional means of help/support, like randomly producing power-ups when in need
-Maybe a simplistic offensive manuever you can count on them doing, so you can work with/around that
-Sit innocuously on your head and spout winning dialogue

In spite of vertical-collisions as far as "head-bouncing" goes, you certainly wouldn't want them colliding with you in ordinary movement and blocking one another, though. And there's no reason you'd need a sidekick to do all of the above; but it's a set of ideas to stem sidekick-oriented gameplay from.

[Relix]

you could also look at Paper Mario. mario ended up with like 6 sidekicks and each one had a specific use outside of battle. in battle of course each one had different attacks with a small mini game attached (microgame?).

If it was like PM: TTYD, the sidekicks kinda sucked in the world map. They had one function, most were item like, like admiral Bombbery - just explodes. Their battle abilities were golden though.

*snip*

That's a good list. And true about the collision, only thing it should collide with is the level tiles and enemies, never with the player.

Already getting more ideas from this topic - like the rope carrying thing.

[Robotacon]

I'm a huge supporter of sidekicks in games.
Another World had one of the best side-kicks in history.

The dynamics between a protagonist and a side-kick breaths life into a game.

I'd even say that I favor free floating weapon add-ons in shoot-em-ups over direct changes to the ship just for the reason that it somehow brings another dimension to what the protagonist is and what or who the player is controlling.

[TacoBell_Lord]

Was going to say Tails & Sonic.

I think a great sidekick & hero relationship is Donkey Kong & Diddy. Theres a great balance of what the other can & can't do. Also how they can manipulate the others feats to overcome obstacles, thats awesome.

There needs to be a sense of balance but what makes it fun is how you can swiftly interchange between the two over a broad level design. Donkey Kong Country Returns does this awesomely.

[Relix]

Hmm...

aren't the DKC examples examples of tag team, not side kick? You mostly play solo with the other one, the only sidekick thing being tossing them/ using Diddy's rockets/ giving you extra healt/hit.

Got another question, if you could ditch your sidekick to make the game harder, would you do it? If not, would you rescue if it got captured, but it'd be only optional to do so - not rescuing it wouldn't halt the story - ?

[Sankar]

I think the Side-Kick mechanics depend on what game we're playing, for example:

The Codec in Metal Gear Solid is a great "side-kick", because it can give you tons of information, Trivia, story-bits and anything else.

While the Fairy/Wife in King of Demons (Majuu Ou, SNES), is great because she can hit enemies that come from above and acts like a "extra-life".

Tatl and Navi (Zelda 64) were good side-kicks too, too bad Nintendo at that time loved characters that Yell too much. But Nonetheless, both characters were useful and fun at the right times.

Midna is a GREAT sidekick, specially because Zelda: Twilight Princess has a more "story-centered" approach, and as the game goes, you start to really care about her, and the game plays on this very well. She doesn't give you much information as Navi did, but she was great.


Side-Kicks are all about being part of the overall game design,
I Would love a friend who can fight alongside me, if its useful and well implemented. Or just someone who tells me about the game world.

Rush in the Megaman X series is a great sidekick, I love to use him in all his forms, explore the Game World and find items.

So, its all about working with the core mechanics. Allowing the player to connect and care to the "sidekick" and making it work.

[Wilson Saunders]

I like to use sidekicks as damage/death buffers. Like jumping off Yoshi to avoid death in Super Mario World. You can use side kicks as a more interesting health bar, or even eliminate the need for a main character by killing off members of a group one by one.

[SolarLune]

It depends on the game-type how the sidekick should act. For example, in a shooter like Cave Story, the sidekick should be intelligent enough to do some damage, like Curly was (or at least, it felt like she was that intelligent). However, in a platformer like Mario or Sonic, that isn't as important - the sidekick could be used to help lift the main character up to places or move the main character around.

[antymattar]

I personally think that the AI in Cavestory is WAAAAAY better than anything I expected. The sidekick was even smarter than those in Bulletstorm. I mean, she actually did some damage!

[Sean A.]

Whatever you do, don't pull a Resident Evil 5. For the sake of everyone. Don't do it.

[Relix]

Ah yeah, Curly. She was truly nice sidekick, even if she was around only for a short while.

Whatever you do, don't pull a Resident Evil 5. For the sake of everyone. Don't do it.

Explain please, I'm not familiar with the series.

[antymattar]

Ah yeah, Curly. She was truly nice sidekick, even if she was around only for a short while.

Whatever you do, don't pull a Resident Evil 5. For the sake of everyone. Don't do it.

Explain please, I'm not familiar with the series.

The sidekicks there are sooooo retarded. I mean, immagine spungebob+anoying orrange+mickey mouse with a shotgun.