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[george]

I've reached the point with a roguelike/textmode RPG in development that I'd like some comments on the UI -- anything about what looks bad (or good) is very welcome.

This is meant to be a simple/coffeebreak game, with more story than a classic roguelike would have.

Here's an in-game screen and afterward the same screen explaining what the different parts of the screen represent (click for full-size):





Players use inventory items by hitting a number key 1-4. The journal/dialog pane is for examining items, character conversation, reading things, and maybe character/item portraits. The message log is for brief messages of what's happening as you play. Some other things like turn count display around the window border.

The brownish highlight around the inventory pane means that pane is selected; when you select a pane you can do additional things like scroll through the message log and so on.

The weird orange thing in the background is just a stand-in for having a background wallpaper over which the panes will float.

That about does it I think, thank you for any comments!

[moi]

I am not a big fan of color ramps in backgrounds like that.

[ThetaGames]

I think the text looks a little messy, and hard-to-read (this could just be the resolution of the screenshots, though).

[Xion]

Those colors are pretty...undelicious.

Why do you need to separate the dialog and message log panes? In most rls I've seen they use the message log for things other people say and things the player reads in addition to the usual "you've been kicked in the balls" fight messages. It seems like having to check two different places for information that can be displayed in one is kind of redundant.

Maybe you could consolidate the dialog and message log panes into a single one and have a small box next to it where a portrait appears when someone is talking, or, say, a picture of a book or a page when the player is reading something.

This would also let you embiggen the viewport, if you like, I guess.

It might also be cool if you could put the 1234 inventory in a horizontal order as opposed to vertical, if only to have some correlation between keyboard layout and screen layout.

Does the turn count have anything to do with the gameplay? if not then I think it's kind of just a tiny flapping appendage on the nose of a Frowning Thing, who is frowning because he has a tiny flapping appendage on his nose that doesn't do anything, and even though he can just ignore it if he tries he can see it just in the corner of his vision all the time and it's annoying him. So he frowns.

If it does have to do with the gameplay, however, maybe it needs to be more prominent?

[Dacke]

I actually like the separate panel. You must take care to make the most of it, but if it will work like a book that stores information, I think it could be very helpful. (If it lets you go back and read old information without getting your action-panel flooded.)

Even so, a few more lines of action history wouldn't hurt.

Making the inventory horizontal is also a good idea

[Xion]

I actually like the separate panel. You must take care to make the most of it, but if it will work like a book that stores information, I think it could be very helpful. (If it lets you go back and read old information without getting your action-panel flooded.)

Ah, if that's the case then nevermind, that sounds useful >_>

[george]

I think the text looks a little messy, and hard-to-read

No I think you're right, there's something weird about that particular font sheet...I'll try out some others.

It might also be cool if you could put the 1234 inventory in a horizontal order as opposed to vertical, if only to have some correlation between keyboard layout and screen layout.

Does the turn count have anything to do with the gameplay?

Yeah the horizontal layout does make more sense, thanks. As far as turn count that's a good question. It never really occurred to me whether it was important or not, it just seemed part of most roguelike interfaces...but it's really only important as feedback that a turn has passed. I think this information could be important for certain things but until I figure out what those are maybe I should drop it. 

I actually like the separate panel. You must take care to make the most of it, but if it will work like a book that stores information, I think it could be very helpful. (If it lets you go back and read old information without getting your action-panel flooded.)

Even so, a few more lines of action history wouldn't hurt.

Yeah that's the idea about the book panel. Though Xion's feedback made me think it could be good to align the book and action panels more vertically, so they would be separate but still in the same visual area. Thanks for the comment about the size of the action panel, I was wondering about that.

[thedaemon]

Why so much wasted space? I mean you want to play the game, not look at a gui right? 

[george]

Why so much wasted space? I mean you want to play the game, not look at a gui right? 

That's a good question and probably somewhat rhetorical, but actually one I've been thinking about. I agree with what you're saying but there are some other issues.

The borders around the panes are so big because x and y layout is based on character  coordinates (cells), not pixel coordinates.

In the display library I'm using it is possible to go to subcell resolution but it's not something I've looked into yet. I leave three character margins all around so that whatever pane is selected and highlighted, there always is a one-cell padding that is never highlighted -- I felt this looked better than two-cell padding. I'll experiment some more, maybe one-cell padding would look OK. I haven't thought of other ways to show the active selection.

The other option is to only show panes like the message window, journal, and inventory when the player asks for them, but I've been avoiding this because personally I don't like switching views a whole lot when I play a game...maybe some kind of hidden pop-out pane could work instead.

[Dacke]

When do you want to highlight a specific pane? Aren't they all active at the same time? Is it to have different keyboard commands do different things depending on what you have selected?

Invetory can be accessible with 1,2,3,4 all the time.
The journal can be done with only two dedicated buttons (for going back and forth though the pages)
You don't interact with the action output.
This leaves the rest of the keyboard free for the actual game.

Unless you want to scroll though stuff in the different areas. But I think that could be done in some clever way without focing the user to select a specific frame.

But perhaps I have no idea about what you're trying to do

[george]

When do you want to highlight a specific pane? Aren't they all active at the same time? Is it to have different keyboard commands do different things depending on what you have selected?

It mostly comes down to trying to limit the size of the set of keys I'm using for commands overall. So in having a selected pane, the player uses the same pane keys whether, say, inventory or action messages is selected. I was going to use pageup/pagedown. In inventory that moves through the inventory displaying the respective item in the journal part; in the messages pane that scrolls the messages, and so on.

But looking at this some more I think I do need a different way of showing a pane is selected, that highlight border is looking like too much.

[Eclipse]

i think that the play area is too small, there's a lot of wasted space... and that black font is not very readable without antialiasing.
what's that skull for?

[Eclipse]

say, inventory or action messages is selected. I was going to use pageup/pagedown. In inventory that moves through the inventory displaying the respective item in the journal part; in the messages pane that scrolls the messages, and so on.

how about ye olde scrollbars?

[Dacke]

Seems like it could become a bit cumbersome to have to change pane selection before you get to access inventory or change screens?

[george]

what's that skull for?

Just a placeholder in the journal pane, as an example of the kind of portrait that'd get displayed there (I can't take credit for it, it's packaged with the libtcod library that I'm using).

how about ye olde scrollbars?

Seems like it could become a bit cumbersome to have to change pane selection before you get to access inventory or change screens?

Regarding scrollbars, so far I haven't been using the mouse...if I do start using the mouse I feel like I would want to do a lot more things with it, and I just haven't gone down that road yet. This is related to Dacke's comment in that with the mouse changing pane selection becomes a non-issue...since in many RPGs the mouse is standard this is worth trying out, I agree.

[Eclipse]

i'm totally for mouse support 
possibly mouse for inventory\scrolling stuff\action buttons and keys to move the character.

That way you don't need to remember that crapload of keys almost any roguelike needs.

Also I'm all for simpler, more generic actions... an "use" command can act like open\pull\drink\read and many other stuff in the right context... use potion is clearly a quaff command, use door is an open one, ect

[george]

I'm definitely narrowing the command-set for keys, using arrow keys, ctrl and x for interacting with everything in the world, number keys for inventory.

A couple of new mockups, making the play area bigger and getting rid of the selection control, also bigger messages area:






Now hitting the tab key brings up the book/journal as an overlay, slightly transparent:





It's kind of a widescreen look at the moment, what do people think of that in comparison with a more square window?

[Dacke]

This is coming along really nicely!

I would have to vote against heavy usage of the mouse. It would probably get in the way most of the time. Using smart (modern) keyboard commands is the way to go! Even if they are as easy as arrows and a few keys, perhaps you can have some kind of help text? When you stand next to a door a small text at the bottom of the screen could display "Press X to open the door.". Also, if you want to have more complex interaction you could add a small popup menu for "advanced interaction" with certain items.

The widescreen is probably not a great idea, at least not having it that wide. In some games it is great to have widescreen. In platformers and horizontal shmups, it makes sense that you can see further to your left/right than up/down, as you (generally) are looking and moving in those directions. But in a top-down game it would probably mostly feel restricting not to have a good view in every direction. I think a standard 4:3 ratio would work well, though. 

[thedaemon]

Much better use of screen space. I wouldn't personally use a mouse playing that game.

[Eclipse]

mouse is not intended for playing it, but imo it's a nicer way to select items from the inventory or scroll the texts

rpg style games with only keyboard controls sucks, having to select items pressing numbers or letters like

1 - healing potion
2 - scroll of fire
3 - scroll of farting

it's a really bad design choice, even very old rpgs used the mouse for such things.
Having both only keyboard AND mouse as optional way to select things could be a good choice too, like how Powder, Mage Guild and a lot of well designer roguelikes does