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[Richard Kain]

Perhaps my perception of things is retarded and i never played diablo1/2.

If you never played Diablo 1 or 2, why would you say that everything before a certain difficulty level isn't the real game?

I have no quarrel with someone who wants more out of their games. Holding developers to higher standards is a good thing, and should be encouraged. But as with everything, moderation is usually appropriate as well. Having completely unrealistic expectations will only insure that they are never, ever met. You will never be satisfied when you set your desires that high. That doesn't hurt me, or Blizzard, or anyone else enjoying Diablo 3. It just hurts you, and your enjoyment of the title.

I would just that you temper your expectations slightly. Go right ahead and keep asking Blizzard to make the game better. The game's community in general will benefit from such refinements and further patching. Giving them feedback on what you want is constructive and no one is going to complain. But I would draw a line at saying that everyone else is playing the game wrong. Antagonizing others for their style of play, or saying that there is only one right way to enjoy the game is a bit silly.

[nekokoneko]

I feel like i've explained that in previous posts quite a few pages back and I dont really have any interest in comparing them to the previous ones, its better to look at what they talked up inferno to be.

Finding all the quotes and video clips would probably be the best way to go about this but I cant really be bothered, so in short;


> If you look at how blizzard talked up the random content and elite packs as a means to negate boss farming, this is a prime example of a developer saying something about the design of their game only to have it not to be true. They can say WHATEVER they want, but unless it is enforced by the game itself it doesnt matter at all. Initially farming the same section leading up to The Butcher was one of the best ways to farm loot... yet they tried to design the game in such a way that boss farming wasn't apart of it?

Theyve since patched it to make Elite packs drop better loot/bosses drop worse.

There are blue posts talking about how the gear is random and you can find amazing things from just destroying items, theyve since had to alter that because people would farm those with Magic/Gold find gear on and it was working too well. (A wonderful byproduct of having an AH built into their game, they cant allow the market to get fucked up by people playing like this, good job.)


> The rune system and diversity of builds was a huge part of their PR talk but when this directly conflicts with the buff you get from farming elites it ends up being another thing that contradicts their design goals. The game forced you into cookie cutter builds in order to stand the most chance in defeating the elite packs, you want to be diverse? Fuck you, you lose the buff, so much for experimenting.


> This part is probably a matter of taste, but if someone says "challenge" i dont think of inflated numbers or enrage timers. Diablo3 does a great job at aiming to be a game where skill can overcome the trials, only to throw in enrage timers and antiskill afflictions to the enemies. When people are clearing your untested content by corpse hopping (someone stays dead, someone spawns on them... gets as far as they can before dying, rinse repeat), you know something is wrong.


> Randomized content = Game built around a story whereby voice overs and elements of narrative end up dictating where things will always be in roughly the same location. Torchlight got this right with its unlimited dungeon, a game developed in a year gets such a simple concept right. (right/wrong? Open to discussion sure, but random content to me is a little bit more random than this)


A rant without really addressing the question about everything before not being the real game. What comes before Hell is A game, it might even be diablo3... what comes after that is a different game. A lot of wanted to get the most out of it are going to be playing this portion of the game, if i had to play final fantasy 7 before i could play whatever this is, thats fine... just dont use the time i spent playing something else to try and invalidate criticisms.


I should probably leave it at this. Overall i enjoyed diablo3 (mostly because of friends/ventrilo) but given the development time and amount of "top" people behind it they really dropped the ball on some of the strangest things.

[Dragonmaw]

re: skill, I would argue Diablo 3 actually takes skill into account more than Diablo 2, as skill synergies are based on player usage rather than arbitrary numbers.

[Capntastic]

"> The rune system and diversity of builds was a huge part of their PR talk but when this directly conflicts with the buff you get from farming elites it ends up being another thing that contradicts their design goals. The game forced you into cookie cutter builds in order to stand the most chance in defeating the elite packs, you want to be diverse? Fuck you, you lose the buff, so much for experimenting."

Ugh, I hate tradeoffs!!!

[s0]

im only on act 3 nightmare so far, but i keep hearing you more or less have to "farm" for gear to progress in hell and inferno. is this true? because usually the moment a gae makes me grind is the moment i stop playing it.

[Capntastic]

I basically strolled through Hell with no real problems and only buying a few things from the AH, and then Inferno is a total brick wall where you either need to farm for a few hours to get some traction, as well as start spending some of that gold in the AH to fill out your equipment.

Mid to Late Hell is also where you'll start wanting to be aware of your resists and boosting your vitality, etc, which becomes core to surviving in Inferno.

Edit:  I've only done a few act 1 runs in Inferno, sold a few decent items on the AH, and have gotten good enough loot that act 1 Inferno is basically no problem at all. 

[Nillo]

> If you look at how blizzard talked up the random content and elite packs as a means to negate boss farming, this is a prime example of a developer saying something about the design of their game only to have it not to be true. They can say WHATEVER they want, but unless it is enforced by the game itself it doesnt matter at all. Initially farming the same section leading up to The Butcher was one of the best ways to farm loot... yet they tried to design the game in such a way that boss farming wasn't apart of it?

This isn't really true; first off, boss farming in Diablo 3 is not optimal in the sense that it was in Diablo 2 and always entails killing some elites before going to the boss. And secondly, they've never said they wanted to get rid of boss farming entirely, just the farming where you only do the boss and nothing else.

In Diablo 2, a standard Mephisto run went something like this:
1. Pick Sorceress or equip Enigma to get the stupidly overpowered Teleport skill
2. Take the waypoint to Durance of Hate Level 2.
3. Ignore all monsters, teleport through the level until you get to Durance of Hate Level 3.
4. Kill Mephisto by getting him stuck in a wall so he can't do anything and using your spells on him until he dies.
5. Pick up loot, remake game, rinse and repeat.

In Diablo 3, a Butcher run always contains at least 5 elite packs because you want to work up the Nephalem Valor buff before killing the boss(es). This means you're experiencing a lot more varied content in each run and you're spending more time in a game before remaking it, which I think most people agree makes the game more entertaining than if it had been optimal to just kill the Butcher and nothing else.

[Moczan]

Also on the 'buff reset on skill change' argument, when you are lvl 60 you had all the hours to experiment with skills and when you start doing valor runs you are expected to know your skills and gear. No one stops you from experimenting, just not in the middle of the fight. Sometimes I think that people who throws arguments around didn't even play the game.

[Netsu]

Also on the 'buff reset on skill change' argument, when you are lvl 60 you had all the hours to experiment with skills and when you start doing valor runs you are expected to know your skills and gear. No one stops you from experimenting, just not in the middle of the fight. Sometimes I think that people who throws arguments around didn't even play the game.

Wait, people are whining about the buff reset on skill change? I remember the whole internet raging over how D3 has no build commitment and how lame it is that you could change your skills any time without any restrictions.

[The Monster King]

dont wanna spoil it for you, but nerds suck

[Fegon]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone still play this? I never got around to testing it and just lost interest along the way. So I was listening to the Diablo incgamers (old dii.net) podcast and they seem to be making alot of changes to the game. The people in the podcast didn´t realy think it would be enough to drag gamers back in though.

[s0]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone still play this?

no. got boring and was taking up too much hard disk space for me.

[Nillo]

http://i48.tinypic.com/2e3tjlz.png

This was my goal for Diablo 3, so now that I'm done with that I'm not sure what else I can do. I guess I can go for 100% achievements, but some of them are pretty grindy. I haven't "quit" the game yet, but I'm taking a break.

Pet WDs are the best. Spirit Vessel and multiple meat shields meant that I was safe pretty much the whole way through. The only trouble I had was against some fast/vortex elite packs in late Inferno. I guess a DC could have killed me too but my connection is generally stable.

[st33d]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone still play this?

no. got boring and was taking up too much hard disk space for me.

Haven't uninstalled yet but I've no intention of playing again. It was a good laugh for the first run. But I hate the rune system (give me new skills not a different colour skill that I'm bored of) and I kept getting killed by lag so no hardcore for me either.

Torchlight 2 I'm going through nice and slow. I generally pick it up when my internet is down. Ironically.

[s0]

i played through once on normal and made it to act 3 on nightmare.

what ultimately turned me off is that d3 feels much more like a grindy mmo than d2 and torchlight. the way shit is spread out across the difficulty levels just seems like a time sink to me. also too much reliance on either grinding for good items or the in-game economy which i never cared for in any game ever.

[Fallsburg]

The one thing that I think Diablo 3 did better than any other Diablolike is creating a variety in the skills.  I like how getting a rune for a skill can completely change how that skill is used, instead of just doing +5 damage like most Diablolikes.

But that's not enough to get me to ever play again.

[st33d]

Completely change?

My raven went from extra poison to mana steal. Oh, and it's a bat instead of a spider. All those man hours creating a new model and animating it all for a minor stat difference.

I honestly think they really fucked up with the runes. I believe it was supposed to replace items having skill modifiers by making those skill modifiers an item in themselves. But searching for them wasn't fun and it just completely devalues standard items. So they gave them away for free - making acquiring them boring - and left the standard items still devalued.

I never looked forward to new loot. Ever.

In D2 I was always at the wizard shop looking for plus-skills. In T2 the socketable gems do odd things and you can enchant stuff. Shopping is fun.

I don't enjoy EBay. But some people do, so I guess that's what D3 is. EBay with an ARPG minigame.

[Nillo]

Sure, Diablo 3 has flaws, but I don't think the rune system is one of them. I enjoyed being able to slightly change the purpose of skills while I was playing D3. And some of them - like the Companion you mentioned - definitely change completely depending on the rune. Ferret Companion for example collects gold and gives a gold bonus, while the Spider Companion slows enemies (and now also acts as a meat shield).

[s0]

nah the runes were pretty fun. i also ended up enjoying the "respec at all times" skill system, even tho it does make your character feel less personal. i also liked that they tried to make the combat more involved than just clicking and guzzling life potions.

[Fallsburg]

Completely change?

I said, "can completely change", and I stand by it.  Take for example the Wizard's Arcane Orb.  Depending on the rune it can:
1) Be a projectile that explodes on contact
2) Be a shield of 4 orbs that explode on contact
3) Pass through enemies, damaging all it passes through

There are some runes that just play with the numbers, but those 3 are dramatically different in how you use them.