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[FionaSarah]

Hi all,

I'm currently knee deep in a prototype for a game I fully intent to see to completion. However the main blocker that's coming up in the horison is that I will really need an artist.

My game is a space puzzle like game. It will require spaceship designs, puzzle interface graphics and some character designs for the single player story mode I'm going to squeese in. Not to mention other miscelanious graphics like menus, background items etc. I'm going to want fairly professional drawn very cartoony art (not pixeled).

Now the problem is that I don't want to go searching for an artist yet because I may not be able to pay them their dues. I have some money in savings but I'm a freelance web developer too so I'll be able to get money that way. Anyway, basically I need to know how much I should have saved up to pay an artist for this kind of gig. Some ballpark figure, knowing I want professional cartooned work.

Also I know you have a forum here for hiring people, is that sort of thing the best avenue? Are there any dedicated sites for hiring artists?

Lastly, should I pay people for individual pieces or for the time they spend producing the art? I imagine this one will be up to the artist, but from my point of view I can see both having their ups and downs. As a freelancer I always bill time rather than define set prices.

Thanks for any help.

[Jetrel]

I've hired a couple of people for various projects.  The hardest thing, as a non-artist, is judging how much time artwork will take to make (in fact, realizing how clueless I was at that was one of the biggest things that spurred me to learn some art, back when I was a pure-programmer).

What it boils down to is ultimately time/money - artists tend to be underpaid compared to programmers, but you're still going to have to make it worth their while.  I know a lot of "starving artists" who barely get by on $30-40K a year, and what they'd insist on for many commissions is often about a week's work out of that.  Fuzzy boundaries on how long stuff will take to get done, communication with the person hiring, rework - and that fact that people rarely have a full, solid queue of commissions waiting for them to do; all of this means even if something would only take a night, they tend to have a lower threshold on price that they don't go below.  So, when it comes to "should I pay people for individual pieces or time?", the answer is "both - an experienced artist will tell you how much a request is going to cost".


As a really, really loose shot in the dark..  cartoon-style character illustrations can go for $150-300 a piece, if they're finished and polished.  "a full game screen" of art could go for $200-$1000, higher if it's carefully cut apart to be modular and/or tileable.  The more time-consuming detail you're going for, the more it's going to cost.  A key concern, if you're shooting for commissioning multiple people, is to pick a "lowest-common-denominator" of art that many potential hire-ees will be able to match.  If you hire one skilled-and-unusual artist, you may have trouble finding others that can match his/her style.

There are so many factors that would affect the price of getting a whole game's worth of art, that I can't remotely pin down a cost.  I'd expect you'd be in the neighborhood of "a few thousand dollars".  As low as $1000 if it's just a few weeks work for an artist (e.g. a flash game or something) - as high as several thousand if you're shooting for all sort of crazy little details they need to make art assets for.


Commissioning is the "safest" option for not getting screwed over by a partner, but you might not be able to afford it.  If you make a really sweet, fun-to-play game, and strongly advertise that you're looking to partner with someone who'd completely do the art side of it, on the site you host the game on, you might well run into someone.  Partnering means you'll lose a huge chunk of royalties (probably 50%), but if this is a first, indie game, you probably don't expect to make it big, and even if you do, they probably deserve to cash in, too - and it also means that if you don't make it big, you're not out some $3000 to get a game's worth of art.

The biggest advantage to commissioning is that you can shepherd them away from wasting their time on a small corner of the game when there are much more pressing bottlenecks that need to be dealt with.  Even some of the most skilled artists out there are terrible at this, and I know dozens of absolutely ace artists out there who can't finish a damn thing because they tend to silo up on just one aspect of a game when there are basic things that are totally unfinished.  Obviously, there's also the advantage that you own everything they make for you, and can tell them to leave if they're being difficult.


Anyways, for cartoon art, I really don't know many great places to go;  my best off the cuff bet would be fishing around on deviantart or something - a lot of artists on there are open to commissions, and deviantart might even have a system set up for matchmaking commission requests.


I'd really welcome anyone else's opinion on this, as I've only hired people a couple of times.  A lot of what I'm saying is very subjective to my own experiences, so I'd love to hear anyone else's.

[FionaSarah]

Thank you for your advice, it's extremely helpful. "a few thousand dollars" was a little lower than what I was expecting so that's good then! I'm surprised artists are so cheap.

I come from a programming background too so it's all new to me as well. I want to learn as much as possible about it before shooting off e-mails saying "hai plz make the pretty pictures for my game, prolly has money for you ".

[RCIX]

Thank you for your advice, it's extremely helpful. "a few thousand dollars" was a little lower than what I was expecting so that's good then! I'm surprised artists are so cheap.

Well, They probably would appreciate more money, especially if they're a "starving artist" type, and it can never hurt to make a friend

[Jetrel]

Thank you for your advice, it's extremely helpful. "a few thousand dollars" was a little lower than what I was expecting so that's good then! I'm surprised artists are so cheap.

Mind you - "A few thousand dollars" is NOT going to net you chrono trigger or something.  A few thousand dollars is more like a mid-to-high-end flash game.  You could get a really simple puzzle game for less than $1000.  I mean, a few thousand dollars is only a month or two of semi-full-time work on your artist's part.


It's hard to say why artists are cheaper than programmers.  I think a good part of it is that mediocre artists are still functional, so there's not a business-breaking difference between mediocre and good artists that makes people desperately want the good ones.  Whereas with coders; mediocre coders can result in a game that straight up does not run.  You can't ship a title that crashes, or that just doesn't actually work.  (I mean, you can but that's game-company seppuku).

it can never hurt to make a friend

Indeed - the problem with hired-gun commissioned folks is they'll do only what's necessary.  Plans have a nasty way of morphing over time.

[Arne]

Is this for the 4X hex game? Have you tried making some sort of list over the graphics that you might need? E.g. 50 ships, 5 character upper body portraits, 16 planets, etc. This might make it easier to come up with a figure.

Some professional artists frown on risky royalty type deals. Personally I like how royalties from multiple projects have the ability to stack/layer up over time, in a way reducing risk.

[FionaSarah]

Is this for the 4X hex game? Have you tried making some sort of list over the graphics that you might need? E.g. 50 ships, 5 character upper body portraits, 16 planets, etc. This might make it easier to come up with a figure.

Nah it's for a totally different game, for various reasons I completely changed my plans. The 4X game was a lot simpler graphics wise because I was happy doing the interface myself and I only needed external graphics for yeah, ships and portraits.

What I'm doing now demands the entire thing be a more cutesy style and to be consistent through out.

I'll be right back to the 4X game when this project is done.

Some professional artists frown on risky royalty type deals. Personally I like how royalties from multiple projects have the ability to stack/layer up over time, in a way reducing risk.

That had never come to mind at all. Personally as a freelance programmer I'd never go in for that thing, but it's interesting to know that for some it's an option. I have a feeling that artists would be far less motivatied to do the job if they didn't get immedately paid when all is done.

Would have no idea how to put that kind of deal on the table, mind.

[gimymblert]

So far I found 3 kind of deal
- Hourly (range from 10$ to 40$ per hour)
- Fixed price by Set of items (define by quality and number of items, but it is base on estimation of time it would take to make them all)
- Royalties (from 10% to 50% of profit)


Freelance prefer hourly rate, Dev prefer fixed price, and in collaboration where the artist have creative freedom it's generally royalties

[dantheman363]

Thank you for your advice, it's extremely helpful. "a few thousand dollars" was a little lower than what I was expecting so that's good then! I'm surprised artists are so cheap.

Mind you - "A few thousand dollars" is NOT going to net you chrono trigger or something.  A few thousand dollars is more like a mid-to-high-end flash game.  You could get a really simple puzzle game for less than $1000.  I mean, a few thousand dollars is only a month or two of semi-full-time work on your artist's part.


It's hard to say why artists are cheaper than programmers.  I think a good part of it is that mediocre artists are still functional, so there's not a business-breaking difference between mediocre and good artists that makes people desperately want the good ones.  Whereas with coders; mediocre coders can result in a game that straight up does not run.  You can't ship a title that crashes, or that just doesn't actually work.  (I mean, you can but that's game-company seppuku).

it can never hurt to make a friend

Indeed - the problem with hired-gun commissioned folks is they'll do only what's necessary.  Plans have a nasty way of morphing over time.

It's much easier to be an artist than it is to be a programmer. Doing it well is a whole 'nother story...

[Miguelito]

As an artist, this has been really eye-opening to me. Seems I've been selling myself much, much cheaper than I should have. Damn.

Ah well, thank you very much!