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[OneMrBean]

Currently trying to come up with a solution for one of the biggest remaining design issues: the player's attention is always focused on the puzzle section at the bottom, rarely looking up at the battle section.

I immediately think of Super Puzzle Fighter, which has an almost identical setup: the player is focused on the interactive moving thingies, and a successful combo of moves results in the avatars elsewhere on screen performing a flashy non-interactive attack. It took me a while to figure out Ryu was shooting hadoukens whenever I got a 4+ combo. And once I found out, I never could remember to look back at the middle of the screen to watch something cool. I'd always just look at either my next piece or how much garbage fell into my opponent's well.

I also think of DDR, or any modern dance game. The visuals are over-the-top adrenaline and colors, but as a player you have to focus on the steps. In this example, the flashiness is designed to both attract wanderers in an arcade and to give bystanders something interesting to look at. Additionally, the backgrounds can be intentionally painful to look at, making a song's steps more difficult to perform.

In the case of Advance Wars, any time you have a skirmish with the enemy, a quick cutscene plays to show what the advancing troops look like. There's nothing really unique to them, other than removing fallen soldiers or blowing up vehicles as they deplete. After hundreds of these, I just wanted to play the game and not watch a fancy dice roll play out. Luckily there was an option to not show them, resulting in an instant win/loss without ever leaving the battlefield view.

Ok, so every example I just gave is not helpful to you whatsoever. If anything, they are evidence that you have no hope of solving this issue unless you physically stop the player from A) seeing the tokens and therefore B) interacting with the tokens.

As an artist, here are a few ways to do this:
1. Dim the tokens area down considerably to the point of not being able to read them. This creates a spotlight effect for the animations up top.
2. Move the token board down out of view (which is probably dumb since I assume you didn't account for the environments to be shown that far down).
3. Flip all of the on-screen tokens around so they have the same visual (a grey shield? Something akin to the back of playing cards).
4. I actually like your final token idea the most. Reminds me of the orb at the end of levels in Rez, where you could decide not to activate it so you could keep playing the section a little longer.

[DanFessler]

In my opinion this is definitely a game design problem and not an art one.  You've designed the game where the important bit is the tokens, and the character fights are just flavor/polish.  The reason nobody looks at the top is because currently a player is penalized for doing so.  They get distracted from the actual game and get behind.  No amount of visual tweaking will solve that.  You'll just frustrate the players more because they won't be able to focus on the game as well as they'd like to.  You don't want to penalize them by looking at the pretty pictures, you want to AWARD them with it.

Being not nearly as familiar with your game as you are, I can only give uneducated suggestions about how to do this.  My first instinct is to pause game play after the player completes a successful move so they have time to be rewarded with a pretty animation of what they accomplished.  Perhaps you should even slide the tokens out of view when you do this, forcing the player to look at the reward - leveling the playing field for those who would otherwise just keep focused on the tokens.

[Chris Pavia]

Thanks for the comments!

@Dan there is a video link in the first post that goes into detail on the gameplay, if you haven't seen it.

Do you guys think it would get annoying or fun if the game alternated between "puzzle phase" and "battle phase" as I described earlier? For reference, it would probably be 1-2 minutes of puzzle phase for 10-20 seconds of battle phase. I agree w/ Bean about the animated sequences in Advance Wars being just pretty dice rolls. I could either have a fast-forward button to skip the battle phase, or add some simple interactivity to give it more purpose, such as selecting which enemy to focus on or who should use their special ability.

Or do you think I'm making it out to be a bigger problem than it is, and I should just focus on the puzzle section and let the upper half remain "optional"?

[Sam English]

I think you should definitely consider adding some sort of interactivity if you plan on doing the 10-20 second "battle phase" thing. Maybe having something like timed hits, where tapping the screen at just the right time gets you a critical hit. You could do similar things with the special abilities as well. Just my two cents. That might add a lot to the workload though?

[Chris Pavia]

Random brainstorming from the bus ride home:

-In Henry Hatsworth, the player can switch between puzzle and platforming modes at will. Doing the same in DH would make be the transition feel more natural.

-There needs to be some risk/reward for entering the battle phase. Perhaps each time the player enters the battle phase, all the enemies get to attack at least once, while a character can only attack if they've charged up enough.

-The skull tokens could be used to force the player into the battle phase before they are ready. If 3 skulls make it off the board, the battle phase starts regardless if any characters are ready.

-Characters have an energy meter under their health bar. Fill it up with combos in puzzle mode, each time it fills up it grants 1 action. Attacking is 1 action, using special abilities may cost more.

This puzzle phase/battle phase system definitely solves the issue of not needing to look at the upper half of the screen, but it also effectively doubles the complexity of the game... I guess the question is if it's adding interesting choices for the player to make.

[Chris Pavia]

Okay, I used my ancient chinese secret of game design (hot shower) and came up with a system that I think will be really fun!

[Chris Pavia]

In the original version, Damage was the main resource, bigger combo=more damage. Currently trying a system where XP is the main resource. Instead of directly correlating to attacks, combos instead generate xp for characters, leveling them up (a level is only like 20 xp so it goes fairly quick). Make a big enough combo and you go into the "battle phase," a very short (currently 6 seconds) mode where you unload your attacks/special abilities on the enemies (while they do the same to you). Using special abilities consumes xp/levels though, so you have to manage that. Defeating enemies gives you several levels worth of xp though so you can still use them regularly.

Downside is that combos feel like they lose some impact since they don't directly damage enemies. Upside is that the battle phase feels really good since all the damage is being compressed into a very short time-span.  Just need to find a good way of keeping the battle phases spaced out enough that it feels climactic when it happens.

[Conker534]

Hahaha. Hot shower.

Anyways I like the look of this. Battle phases sound like could be fun. :D

[Chris Pavia]

Heh, I usually come up with my best ideas in the shower. It's like being hypnotized, I can shut out everything and retreat into my head. Throw in a little herb and it's time for a fantastic voyage!

[JasonPickering]

I would replace XP with "Energy". People are okay with expelling energy or Mana, but taking away their XP, could confuse them. Also when you were talking about XP and levels I thought of the bars from super street fighter



where you fill them up and then can unleash moves depending on the larger sections of bars filled.

[Ouren]

Dash cancel into a focus fake out EX special.

[Chris Pavia]

I would replace XP with "Energy". People are okay with expelling energy or Mana, but taking away their XP, could confuse them.

I'm kind of torn on this one. I totally agree with you that people will be more okay with expending energy compared to xp, but xp just works so well in the context of the game being a "deconstruction/streamlining" of RPG's. It's an easy thing to change though.

[Chris Pavia]

Okay, I was inspired by Jason's Street Fighter screenshot and comments, so I've tweaked the design to separate energy from XP, and now you won't consume XP.

Both the party and enemies will have separate energy meters above the puzzle that they fill up (player fills it up w/ combos, enemies fill it up w/ skull tokens). When either one fills up the battle phase starts. The meters start draining automatically, and using attacks/special abilities drain it quicker. I like this method because the player can be forced into the battle phase without much/any energy if they aren't careful about destroying the skull tokens. And the combos are a bit more directly tied to combat than before.

I still need to prototype it first to make sure it flows well and feels good.

[Destral]

Another possible idea would be to have the party's energy meter have segments that fill up as you match the tokens. As you match tokens the party and monsters are exchanging small blows for minimal amount of damage, but at any time after you fill in at least one segment of the energy meter you can tap the top half of the screen to unleash your accumulated energy in the form of special attacks that deal more damage (and while that is going on the puzzle UI is obscured - you might even make the battle portion of the screen expand to fill the entire screen or something if you're using separate views?) The player might feel incentivised to check up on the top part of the screen to see how the bars are looking, and might choose to unleash their special attacks early if they think they can defeat the monsters before they get to use their own special.

[Kevin]

I just wanted to pop in and tell you that this is looking beautiful and is now firmly on my radar. How did I miss this before?

[Chris Pavia]

Another possible idea would be to have the party's energy meter have segments that fill up as you match the tokens. As you match tokens the party and monsters are exchanging small blows for minimal amount of damage, but at any time after you fill in at least one segment of the energy meter you can tap the top half of the screen to unleash your accumulated energy in the form of special attacks that deal more damage (and while that is going on the puzzle UI is obscured - you might even make the battle portion of the screen expand to fill the entire screen or something if you're using separate views?) The player might feel incentivised to check up on the top part of the screen to see how the bars are looking, and might choose to unleash their special attacks early if they think they can defeat the monsters before they get to use their own special.

Hmm, I like the idea of being able to go into the battle phase early, but there may need to be some sort of risk involved.

I just wanted to pop in and tell you that this is looking beautiful and is now firmly on my radar. How did I miss this before?

Thanks! It's been pretty easy to miss, I haven't updated it till recently and there aren't enough visible pixels to get most TIG'ers interested anyway.   

[Chris Pavia]

Okay, I've changed the gameplay I described previously based on some of the feedback I've gotten here. Here's how it works now:

- The party and the enemies each have an energy meter between them and the puzzle section. The player fills up their meter with combos. The enemy meter fills over time (very slowly), but also gets a bonus each time a skull token makes it to the right side.

- As soon as one side reaches 100% energy, both enter the battle phase. If the player isn't careful about destroying skull tokens, they can get forced into a battle phase in which they have little/no energy. During the battle phase, the meter drains on it's own, and everyone attacks automatically while there is still energy in their meter. The battle phase lasts until both meters are empty (about 8-10 seconds on average).

- While normal attacking occurs automatically during the battle phase, the player can activate any unlocked special abilities as long as there is enough energy available. Using specials drains the meter quicker, of course.

-The more full the enemy energy meter is, the more likely they are to use special abilities.

- Once the enemies are dead, the bonus phase starts and the player can level up their characters before the next battle. Unlocking special abilities is gated by level.

For the first battle or two, the battle phase will be completely passive since basic attacking is automatic. But once the player starts unlocking specials (starting at level 5), they'll get more involved. Managing specials and energy will be a big part of the battle phase as the player progresses. For example, the Mage has a special that will steal energy from the enemies during the battle phase, but only if the party is at 0 energy.

[Joshua]

Thanks! It's been pretty easy to miss, I haven't updated it till recently and there aren't enough visible pixels to get most TIG'ers interested anyway.   

Or way too many visible pixels.  I've been following for quite some time, very lovely work. Looking forward to a playable version.

[Chris Pavia]

Thanks dood!

[Chris Pavia]

Couple more BG's:





Final 2 are mostly done, just needs some tweaking.