next »

[johntorkington]

As a composer looking to get into the game industry I've been toying with the idea of creating some examples in native tracker formats or even general midi rather then render out everything as a waveform to demonstrate my ability to write in those formats and with restrictions. However I don't know how prevalent these formats are in 2011, nevertheless the future. Do any developers still look for native formats when it comes to music?

[s0]

a lot of indie devs use tracker music, not sure about the industry but my guess is it's probably not very common.

[noah!]

Honestly, from a developer's perspective I don't know. The thing is, really the only advantage that tracker files have now is file size. And even that advantage can be mitigated through some clever use of codecs (though I haven't seen any indie games attempt to take advantage of that).

I think that the decision to use tracker music comes from convenience, really. Like, either the developer is already used to working with the format, or knows someone who is well-versed in the format, and so it becomes a given that that is what they're using. However, nowadays I'm seeing an influx of more "traditional" composers, who are more familiar with modern production tools, and don't see as much of a need to learn a whole new method of composing music just to be able to support a format that is quickly sliding into obsolescence.

[pgil]

I use XM files for most of my games, and have made them for a few other peoples' games.  The advantatges are file size (sometimes) and having lots of  control over looping, muting tracks, etc... That said, I don't think I've ever gotten a job from someone who opened an .xm file of mine in a tracker and listened to it. I think nowadays, people just want to know you're good at making music, and will talk about the technical stuff later.

[moi]

I think tracker music will come back in force sooner or later.
There is no reason to have 5 Mbytes of music on a 2 Mbytes flash game for example.

[johntorkington]

Fair enough. I may make a few examples if I have free time but I won't make it a priority.

[Player 3]

I think tracker music will come back in force sooner or later.
There is no reason to have 5 Mbytes of music on a 2 Mbytes flash game for example.

Just hope Triplefox finishes up that SiON tracker so we can just sacrifice CPU for file compression.

[pgil]

Yeah, SiON is great too, and I think having a more intuitive song editor will make it more popular. 

BTW, there's already an open-source XM Player for Flash. I'm using it in a game I'm currently working on.

[st33d]

Our musician actually has to send midi files to some clients for backing tracks to certain things. It's still a standard, especially if the clients aren't minted.

[MoritzPGKatz]

MIDI is still a standard production-wise, but for the past 5 years I can't say I've used general MIDI files for anything other than programming or exchange with other studios when collaborating on a project, neither for gaming music nor for film or commercial tracks.

Tracker formats still have a demo/retro niche, but most people consider them obsolete for very good reasons.

[Brother Android]

Tracker formats still have a demo/retro niche, but most people consider them obsolete for very good reasons.

What are those reasons?

i think module formats are economical in terms of space and would make it easy to program games that make interactive use of sound. For chiptune-type music (simple waveforms) tracker formats are ideal; for sample-based music in general they are quite functional, although the file size benefit becomes less significant. i see no good reason not to at least consider using them... that said, though, if you're distributing your portfolio, do it in a normal format. As pgil says, people want to know you can make music; if it later turns out to be an advantage that you know your way around a tracker, great.

[1982]

There is no way I see trackers as obsolete. Sure they are more into electronic and sample based music. For music that has lots of live instruments multi-track systems and piano roll sequencers work better. But in the end it is all about what you get used to as composer. I personally implement live recordings easily with my tracker work environment.

For games module music has a lot pros in it like stated in this thread. Thou it seems that game tracker music is made because it is retro and hip, and not actually seen as as true alternative way for making awesome music. Listen the masters.

[noah!]

To be honest, I have nothing against the tracker method of composing. I mean, I use Renoise, and love it to death. Wouldn't give it up for anything (and I've tried almost everything). But the module format itself? Ehh, I think it's time to give it a tune-up.

I'm just gonna throw this out there, but I think something like SunVox will be the wave of the future. Enough waveform support to implement most synthesis methods, plus sample manipulation and flexible DSP connections, an open engine...The only thing it needs to hit the big time is fan support; unfortunately, that's where it seriously falls short. And that's where most proposed solutions will fall short.

SiON's a worthy contender too, but I have a feeling that AS3-only thing is gonna throw a lot of people under the bus.

[s0]

I think tracker music will come back in force sooner or later.
There is no reason to have 5 Mbytes of music on a 2 Mbytes flash game for example.

there's no "reason" but internet connections are so fast these days it doesn't really matter. i average on 2MB/s when i'm downloading from a decent server and i don't care whether some flash game takes 1 or 5 seconds to load.

[moi]

flash game portals have some "reasons" to keep the file size low and will generally favor smaller games or have a bias against big ones.
Also having a lot of space is not a good reason to waste it.

[MoritzPGKatz]

Tracker formats still have a demo/retro niche, but most people consider them obsolete for very good reasons.

What are those reasons?

You answered that yourself: the file size benefit is pretty insignificant when clients look for realistic music with samples and recordings. Which is mostly the case, except in the afore-mentioned retro niche.
About interactive music, audio programmers and engineers mostly use FMOD, Wwise and the like these days. We've come a long way since iMuse!

Don't get me wrong though, I love trackers. Scream Tracker was the first music software I used back in the early 90's on an old 386DX, and I think it's really cool there's still some development on that sector.

But neutrally speaking, anything you can do with trackers, you can do with sequencing DAWs. Plus recording actual instrumental and voice takes.
And that's the whole point why trackers will become more and more of a niche/retro thing that had its high in game music in the late 90's/early 00's when titles like Deus Ex or Unreal made use of it. (thanks for the great soundtracks, M.C.A.!)

[sublinimal]

I'm hoping to see a tracker renaissance sometime soon. In fact, it's hard for me to see why they were phased out in the first place. Something like Renoise is comparable to any DAW with its powerful DSP and automation, but free trackers fell off the technology bandwagon at some point. Modules aren't widely supported either, unlike the ubiquitous mp3s (which is a bit of a feedback loop: when modules become less supported, new developers have less incentive to support modules). But provided you do have an compatible audio library, there are really only benefits to using modules over mp3s.

Modules are tiny, yes, due to the way instruments are recycled. But my main fascination with them is that they're open: anyone can take a song, see how it's made, even remix it on the fly. And when it comes to games, you can have control over individual tracks to create interactive music - although this was never used to its full potential.

[XRA]

well, I've been thinking I will try using XM for the ambient tracks in MOABD.  Been using Renoise to re-familiarize myself with tracking.  The reason for wanting to go with XM is because of the ease in which I can mute channels, manipulate playback and trigger events off pattern data. 

If I was trying to do that with compressed audio tracks I'd end up with bloated file size and minimal control. So I'm hoping that the tradeoff of using higher quality samples in the XM file (larger file size) will be worth it for the added flexibility...

Maybe the next best thing would be supporting compressed samples in OGG or MP3 format, unless they do already...

I might still end up with some compressed tracks too that the XM stuff is overlayed on.

[Brother Android]

You answered that yourself: the file size benefit is pretty insignificant when clients look for realistic music with samples and recordings. Which is mostly the case, except in the afore-mentioned retro niche.

true... however, that niche does happen to be where most people on this forum do their work. My impression is we're discussing things in the context of small-team independent games, though perhaps i misunderstood.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

the last semi-mainstream game that i can recall using them was 'uplink' by introversion. i think they should be used more, they are pretty cool and allow some things that the normal mp3/ogg/wav format does not, such as disabling or enabling particular instruments in reaction to the gameplay (the way getting on yoshi would add in the percussion track in super mario world). i feel that if you want to make your music more interactive, then ogg/mp3 isn't as suitable for that need

my freeware games alphasix and the fedora spade games used them, but my commercial games immortal defense and saturated dreamers do not