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[kiwasabi]

Yeah, negativeGamer could probably sense how awful of a person you are even before you started these shenanigans, must be why they graded it "leave to die".

I have since fixed the problems discussed in his review.

[Christian Knudsen]

The frustration I expressed in the Gamasutra comments thread was very much real.

Oh, no doubt. It takes a jerk to decide to act like one. You made this about you. Don't complain when that's what people discuss and judge.

[kiwasabi]

It is, you are obsessed with innovation that you cannot see the excellent depth the simplistic game play leads to. It feels like you would have been the type of dude to rail against older blizzard games because their contemporaries have more advanced features.

There are several issues with the controls, so just interacting with the game can be annoying at times. Also, since the levels regenerate each time you die, you lose everything you learned about them.

Well stop! I hate Peggle, but I don't tell my family that play it that, because telling them that what they enjoy is a simplistic lights show specifically created to cause Excitement, is just being a dick, they won't change their opinion, because they ENJOY it.

Also, "There is no best pickle, only best pickles!" seems to apply.

This is different, though. I'm saying stop automatically liking a game just because an indie developer you like made it.

[team_q]

This is different, though. I'm saying stop automatically liking a game just because an indie developer you like made it.

I refuse to stop, what now?

[kiwasabi]

Oh, no doubt. It takes a jerk to decide to act like one.

Well, the jerk store called, and it wants you back.

You made this about you. Don't complain when that's what people discuss and judge.

Right, because it's easier to judge an individual than a flawed value system.

[c-foo peng]

I think what CAsinclair was getting at was that there's a lot more that makes a game successful than "no flaws".

Oh really? Ever heard of Halo? It's nothing original, but has very few flaws (the first one at least). And it's one of the biggest franchises ever.

Halo is also the result of years of tedious user testing, millions of dollars in budget, and an online infrastructure previously unknown to console gaming. How does your game compare?

The key to good game art is a balance between functionality and aesthetics. From what I've seen, I don't think Flytrap is a good example of either. Here's a series of articles that touches into these subjects: http://www.davidhellman.net/blog/the-art-of-braid-index/

When confronted with failure, an easy reaction is denial. Blame others, blame the system, it couldn't possibly be something that I did! It takes a strong person to accept, move on, and make their next project better. Though in this case, due to your actions, you've somehow managed to move into the failure state before the game is even released?

[kiwasabi]

This is different, though. I'm saying stop automatically liking a game just because an indie developer you like made it.

I refuse to stop, what now?

Then you'll keep playing bad games. But I guess since you'll be too oblivious to notice, you'll be happy.

[Christian Knudsen]

Yeah, I'm not going to give this troll and his game any more unnecessary attention by participating in this thread any further.

[team_q]

Then you'll keep playing bad games. But I guess since you'll be too oblivious to notice, you'll be happy.

Who is the smartest man in the world? The one who is always right, or the one who is always happy?

[Fuzz]

This is different, though. I'm saying stop automatically liking a game just because an indie developer you like made it.

I'm quite sure that many, many people enjoy Spelunky because it is a good game. The majority of Spelunky players likely don't have an inkling of an idea who Derek Yu is. Myself? I don't much care for Spelunky, and I think that Derek Yu is a cool guy who tends to make good games... What you have to understand is that most enjoyment in the indie games scene is exactly that: enjoyment. There are very few cases where the posited "enjoyment" is based on adoration of the creator.

[Oddball]

Well, what's more important to you:
1. Convincing other people that their criteria for appreciating games is stupid.
2. Getting people to play and enjoy your game.

So far your actions imply #1.

What's more important to you? Playing fun games, or lecturing the creators to improve their attitude? I think there are major problems in the indie scene as a whole, so #1 is very important to me, but of course in the short-term, #2 is more important.

I think you have missed the true joy of the indie gaming scene. Forget the quality of the games, yes there are good games and yes there are bad games, but the true joy of indie games is the sense of community and camaraderie. Leave this thread alone for a while and browse some of the other threads, maybe even participate in a few. People pat Derek Yu on the back ahead of you because they have come to know and love him through sites just like this one. In the end games come and go, but the bonds of fellowship last a lifetime. This is the real joy of indie games.

[kiwasabi]

Halo is also the result of years of tedious user testing, millions of dollars in budget, and an online infrastructure previously unknown to console gaming. How does your game compare?

Flytrap is the result of many months of user testing.

The key to good game art is a balance between functionality and aesthetics. From what I've seen, I don't think Flytrap is a good example of either. Here's a series of articles that touches into these subjects: http://www.davidhellman.net/blog/the-art-of-braid-index/

Feel free to play the game before passing judgment on how well the graphics work.

When confronted with failure, an easy reaction is denial. Blame others, blame the system, it couldn't possibly be something that I did! It takes a strong person to accept, move on, and make their next project better. Though in this case, due to your actions, you've somehow managed to move into the failure state before the game is even released?

And exactly how have I failed?

[kiwasabi]

I think you have missed the true joy of the indie gaming scene. Forget the quality of the games, yes there are good games and yes there are bad games, but the true joy of indie games is the sense of community and camaraderie. Leave this thread alone for a while and browse some of the other threads, maybe even participate in a few. People pat Derek Yu on the back ahead of you because they have come to know and love him through sites just like this one. In the end games come and go, but the bonds of fellowship last a lifetime. This is the real joy of indie games.

And this is the problem with the indie game scene. There's only friendship, not competition. People aren't allowed to criticize a game openly in fear of upsetting someone. This leads to the low quality games that are currently coming out of the indie game scene.

[aeiowu]

You want to know why the flytrap graphics are "meh"?

Here's why:

1. Overall they lack production value and are quite obviously done by an amateur or "beginner". Take a look at the "game box". The first graphics anyone sees, before they even decide to purchase the game or not are really poorly done. In fact, compared to the screenshots I've seen this is the worst of the lot. Not a great way to start a potential customer out when trying to imbue them with faith in your product.

1a. Aliasing and a "cut-out" look. Check out the character in the foreground. All around the edges of his body you can see inconsistent jagged pixels, sometimes black, sometimes not. It looks like a character cut out of construction paper rather than a real alien in a real world. Right off the bat you've jarred people out of the game-world with this poor attention to craft.
How-to Fix: Take more time to cut out the character, think about the edge of the character as a 3D object and use line thickness and even slight shading in the line to make the character pop out of the foreground in a good three dimensional way rather than prop him up flat-looking.

1b. Shading and Volume. Especially evident in the feet or "roots" of the character there is little to no volumetric shading which only adds to the problem of the character feeling like he's a 2D piece of paper. If that's the aesthetic you were going for, well that's alright, but it wasn't and that's clear. You attempted a realistic, slightly stylized approach and fell in between the cracks. More on that later.
How-to Fix: I'm guessing this was a problem that manifested early in the drawing process and it's a common mistake for inexperienced artists. It's important to start with large shapes, go from general to specific details and try and bring the character/drawing into focus together so no one element gets lost or exaggerated. By starting with the veins of the roots you painted yourself into a corner that you couldn't find your way out of so doing large swathes of shading over top of that probably felt like you would be losing detail, but it's a loss you should have afforded yourself for the good of the overall drawing.

1c. Color. You're using black to shade. While this can be effective, for the style that you've chosen (color BG as well) dark shades have a dirty feel over top of vibrant colors like the green of the dude's skin. Besides, even in the real world the sky is made of thousands of subtle changes in hue, so be aware of those. Nothing is ever one shade of anything.
How-to Fix: Try shading with neighboring colors of the color wheel and do some testing with tertiary colors to see how you can make something a little livelier by shading with HUE rather than BRIGHTNESS.

1d. Pose and Anatomy. Now, there's not skeletal record of whatever that thing is but your lack of knowledge and study on humanoid form as well as dynamic structure falls short of what it looks like you aimed for. To simply have a character standing there doesn't give off enough of the personality that you probably want to convey about your game. Is this a game about an alien with a squirt gun that stands there? Nobody really knows and this image doesn't help that.
How-to Fix: Apart from endlessly studying human anatomy you'd do well to do some sketches of the character in small thumbnail form. Even get a friend to pose and take pictures and use those to get a more interesting, dynamic pose.

1e.  Composition. This plays into the boring pose of the alien, but also there's not much else going on in the picture. It's just a guy on a barren landscape with some haphazardly placed text.

2. Poor Art Direction. This is my final point, as I am running late to the gym but overall the whole thing looks very disjointed without much focus. Choosing and developing an art style is the single most important visual choice you can make for you game. It communicates a vast amount of things to the player. Here, it seems that was completely circumvented in favor of the age-old amateur mistake of "whatever, i'll just start doing stuff." That's fine for the most part, but you declare this game to be a great game, so i'm holding it to those standards. Even sub-par games usually involve a system for creating a visual style whether it be through restraint, innovation or conscious will.
How-to Fix: Spend a good chunk of pre-production doing sketches and research. Play around when you have the freedom to think without the restraint of looming deadlines and feasibility.

Ok, I could go further, and maybe i'll edit this later, but I hope that helps shed some light on the "why".

[John Nesky]

I'm going to have to disagree with Oddball here. Honestly? I hate the focus on game developers over games, on personality over product. I hate the enthusiasm-ocracy. But I honestly care about people's genuine reactions to things that I make, and I accept that being rude will damage their feedback. And whenever I show something, I try to make it clear that I'm looking for constructive feedback, and that helps too.

[Oddball]

I think you have missed the true joy of the indie gaming scene. Forget the quality of the games, yes there are good games and yes there are bad games, but the true joy of indie games is the sense of community and camaraderie. Leave this thread alone for a while and browse some of the other threads, maybe even participate in a few. People pat Derek Yu on the back ahead of you because they have come to know and love him through sites just like this one. In the end games come and go, but the bonds of fellowship last a lifetime. This is the real joy of indie games.

And this is the problem with the indie game scene. There's only friendship, not competition. People aren't allowed to criticize a game openly in fear of upsetting someone. This leads to the low quality games that are currently coming out of the indie game scene.

I guess the answer to that is to create your own community that values competition above friendship. A place where you are free to insult each others work. I'm sure developers will be queueing up to join. Nobody here is afraid to criticise others work. It's just most people know how to be constructive and nice with there critique. Take a look how Guert critiques games around here. He is very good at pointing out a games faults in a very constructive way, and people appreciate his view because of it.

[kiwasabi]

aeiowu, pretty good analysis for someone who hasn't created anything better than what's in Flytrap. I will keep your comments in mind though for when the art is done for my next game.

By the way, I didn't do the art, just the art direction. You can criticize my art direction all you want, but for what I had in terms of time and resources, it's pretty damn high quality (especially compared to what else is out there in the indie game community).

[kiwasabi]

I'm going to have to disagree with Oddball here. Honestly? I hate the focus on game developers over games, on personality over product. I hate the enthusiasm-ocracy. But I honestly care about people's genuine reactions to things that I make, and I accept that being rude will damage their feedback. And whenever I show something, I try to make it clear that I'm looking for constructive feedback, and that helps too.

I care about peoples' feedback as well, and my game wouldn't be what it is without my willingness to accept and take into consideration other peoples' opinions.

I don't mind people finding flaws with my game or its art style, but it shouldn't be based on what they think about my personality. The attacks on the game's art are ridiculous; the art in Flytrap is many times better than almost anything in the indie scene. People are just looking for something to attack, and since they can't play the game yet, they're attacking the screenshots.

[s0]

I honestly find low-bit pixel graphics more attractive on average than Flytrap's graphics. That's personal preference though, I guess.

Also, you keep bashing indie games as a whole and taut your game as the "best ever" without even coming up with clear reasons why it's so good.

I mean, as I explained I'm not a potential customer, but how about you stop being insulting for a second and make a clear, constructive post summing up your views on why you think Flytrap is good?

[John Nesky]

It's probably true that people would be a lot more lenient on the art if they weren't looking for things to attack. But is it the community's fault that they're looking for things to attack, or yours, for provoking them? I mean, the answer is probably "both, to some degree", but I'd rather lean towards fixing my own attitude than waiting for the community to change to suit my taste.