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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesWorld's First MMO RPG RTS FPS/TPS
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thellis
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« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2007, 01:00:01 AM »

Just thought I'd let you guys know:

Quote
Now, as most of you are aware, these forums and the project has come to a substancial decrease in action over the past few weeks.

I think I may have drastically overstepped the mark with what I can handle and don't have the backup to support me at this stage. Basically, neither I nor the team have a name in the industry and nobody wants to touch a project like this, whether we can do it or not.

As such, I am seriously considering scaling down the project so that we can make a name for ourselves first! This project will be a starting place for people wanting to make a name for themselves and those wishing to lead into larger projects.

If nobody contacts me in reguards to this with serious objections, I will start rethinking how we are going to structure the game, including genre and style.

I dont know how it's going to work but the other managers and I will figure something out...
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2007, 02:46:34 AM »

I'm not sure what use a "name for yourself" is either. What matters, long-term, is how good you are at making games, not how well known you are.

Let me give you my history as an example. I spent six years making unreleased little games in QBASIC which only me and my brothers and sisters saw before I even released one publicly on the internet back in 2000. I spent another six years only releasing my games to a very small audience of a few hundred people on small Ohrrpgce-engine message boards before I even released one to a larger forum audience and various freeware download sites. During that time I created around twenty little games, each progressively better than the last, each teaching me something. I didn't create any of that for "a name" -- nobody knows who I am outside my circle of friends. I created them to learn how to create games, that's the important part. Maybe I personally am going too slow, but I really think at least a decade of experience is needed before you can claim that your game will be any good at all or any fun for anyone. Until you've tried making games you don't actually know how difficult making something fun and balancing it is.
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ravuya
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« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2007, 06:40:40 AM »

I'm not sure what use a "name for yourself" is either. What matters, long-term, is how good you are at making games, not how well known you are.
Screaming fanboys improve the chances of successful software development by over 57.552% [Brooks, 1992].
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thellis
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« Reply #83 on: May 19, 2007, 12:13:11 AM »

I'm not sure what use a "name for yourself" is either. What matters, long-term, is how good you are at making games, not how well known you are.
Screaming fanboys improve the chances of successful software development by over 57.552% [Brooks, 1992].

Thats pretty much it. Also, if I have a game behind me, people will actually realise that I can get stuff done. At the moment, I'm just another kid with an idea. Anyone can SAY they want to make a game, not anyone can put it into action. I want to seperate myself from the "anyone"'s and show people that I'm not just another kid Tongue
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BMcC
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« Reply #84 on: May 19, 2007, 01:26:12 AM »

[...] Anyone can SAY they want to make a game, not anyone can put it into action. I want to seperate myself from the "anyone"'s and show people that I'm not just another kid Tongue

Woo!  Do it!  Grin

*pats thellis on back*
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thellis
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« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2007, 03:53:35 AM »

Update!
Exordium is now a Neverwinter Nights mod (RPG game style obviously). Our team is still investigating the full extent of the engine, however we will be trying to follow a few of the same goals, such as:
- Good looking "shores"
- Range of weather effects (including sun cycles if possible)
- Realistic sound (further away looses treble etc)

We hope to be able to implement as many of these as possible, although we understand that this game is a learning experience, so some (or even all) of these things may not be possible.

Thank you for providing feedback on my previous dismal attempt. Hopefully this is a little easier, eh? As always, feedback is accepted graciously.

*To mods: Do you want me to start a new topic, as this is basically a new project or keep it under this one? I'm happy to do either Wink
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2007, 05:12:10 AM »

Mods are probably a good way to start learning game development; keep in mind you can't (I think) sell a mod, so by necessity it'll be freeware.

The only mod I ever did was a mission-based single-player SC campaign (which was only half-finished).
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Alex May
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« Reply #87 on: June 08, 2007, 12:36:54 PM »

Sounds like a plan, thellis. Good luck!
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Inane
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« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2007, 11:06:07 PM »

Some high-profile mods get adopted. Isn't that how Red October got onto Steam commercially?
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real art looks like the mona lisa or a halo poster and is about being old or having your wife die and sometimes the level goes in reverse
sega
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« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2007, 12:34:08 AM »

Whew!  A mod.  Man, even your scaled back version of your old idea was WAY too much.  I was gonna say to start with something very small, like a puzzle game.  Even a 2D platformer could be too big of a task for most people as their initial finished game.

But yeah, a mod should do nicely.  Even that can easily get way too big though.  Like you were saying about filtering the sound effects to lose treble as they move into the distance, if that's not already a capability of the engine, forget it.  Just work on solid design within the game engine's limitations. 

Even though it's greatly scaled down from before, your current Neverwinter Nights mod list of goals worries me. 
Quote
- Good looking "shores"
- Range of weather effects (including sun cycles if possible)
- Realistic sound (further away looses treble etc)

What is your overall encompassing goal?  Is it to make the game look and feel realistic?  I suggest that you give people a reason to play based on interaction, not piling on special effects and levels of realism.  Relying on that kind of stuff will require more of you than you'll ever know, and being the small project it is, won't capture people's interests NEARLY as much as focusing on interaction.  Seriously, putting effort into realism is going to net you maybe 5 to 10% of the player interest that the SAME LEVEL OF EFFORT put into interaction will net you.  And some can argue that it may not net you any fun at all.

And even in interaction, focusing on REALISTIC interaction could also waste a lot of time and energy.  Go for interesting interaction.  The type that engages the mind, or dexterity of the player, or both.  Work smart in that sense.  The more concise your design, the better.  You can come up with a smart design that doesn't require tons of content/programming based on mimicking the environment and the human mind.  When designing games, it's so easy to just pile on more and more.  "Like this game everyone likes, but MORE".  If you really want to impress, you'll have to step up your design skills, and build something concise and sharp.  Unfortunately, that kind of skill requires practice.  Several games of practice.  However, I'm just one voice.  Definitely take my advice with a grain of salt.  But do look for themes across all of the advice given to you.

I think you're heading in a great direction by simplifying.  The choice to turn it into a mod is a great compromise between your original idea and what people here are saying.  I commend you for doing that.  I've seen many with ideas like your original concept too bullheaded to take the years of experience the people on this forum and others like it have to offer.  Most people here can tell you what fate was suffered.  It can be a romantic idea, "doing what they all said was impossible".  Just keep in mind to work smart.  Simplify.  It requires a lot of skill to do it well and keep the player engaged, but the payoff is pretty big.  You may indeed accomplish the "impossible".  Just stay smart about the steps you take.

Good luck.

edit: of course it wasn't his intention, but this quote is quite pertinent to game design, I feel:
Quote
   
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

- Albert Einstein
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thellis
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« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2007, 04:27:58 AM »

Wow sega. That's some great advice and even some encouragement! :D That makes me feel optimistic...
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #91 on: June 09, 2007, 09:02:37 AM »

Nice Einstein quote there. That could be a good motto of any indie developer.
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Bezzy
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« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2007, 10:11:48 AM »

Yeah, totally dig the quote. Sums up my defense for a lot of my design decisions. And also involves Einstein zinging dudes. Bonus.
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fish
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« Reply #93 on: June 18, 2007, 11:18:52 AM »

man, that quote is now my bible.

ah, good ol Al Einstein. he's always been on my side.
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