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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingQwak
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Jamie W
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« on: November 11, 2008, 04:04:44 AM »

Hello,

Well, first post here, and I'd like feedback on both my website, and my games' demo.

Website is here: www.qwak.co.uk

The demo is a 3.8mb download.

Thanks,
Jamie.
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skaldicpoet9
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2008, 04:07:55 AM »

If you really want feedback for your game it is it is customary to post here and introduce yourself. Also you should read this as well: The Rules of Engagement. Anyways, as long as you aren't a shameless spammer then you shouldn't have to worry about the 'ol ban hammer.
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Farbs
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2008, 04:29:58 AM »

Fun fact:

The first version of this game is older than many members of this forum.
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Jamie W
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 04:58:12 AM »

If you really want feedback for your game it is it is customary to post here and introduce yourself. Also you should read this as well: The Rules of Engagement. Anyways, as long as you aren't a shameless spammer then you shouldn't have to worry about the 'ol ban hammer.

Well, thanks for the warm welcome! Wink

However, there was no indication during the sign-up process as to rules of engagement, or pre-requisites for posting here. Maybe if you expect newbies to jump through such hoops, you should approach the management here, and get them to make such rules clear no us newbies during the sign up process?

To the management (mods), appologies for any trasgressions. I did look for an introductions section, but couldn't see anywhere appropriate. I'll gladly go introduce myself somewhere, if you can tell me where.

EDIT: I'll just add, that I'm not trying to spam my game. I'm looking for genuine, honest, and constructive feedback; on my demo and site, from people who probably have a lot more experience and success at being an indie, than a wannabie like me. To be honest, I value such feedback a lot more than selling a couple of copies of my game.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 05:04:24 AM by Jamie W » Logged

Hajo
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 05:07:50 AM »

I'll gladly go introduce myself somewhere, if you can tell me where.

Welcome to the Forum Smiley

skaldicpoet9 linked it already, but the introduction thread is over here, if the first link was too obscure:
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=45.0
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 05:13:04 AM »

Ah, wonderful. We haven't played your game yet, but we like you. Polite and genuine. I'll give it a good playthough tomorrow, post some impressions.

Welcome!  Gentleman
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Jamie W
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2008, 05:43:32 AM »

Okay, I've now introduced myself on the correct thread. Smiley

A few concerns I have about the demo are:

1.
Do I give too much away?

2.
Is it too 'samey'?
The player only gets to play on the castle world (in tutorial and normal mode). I do give them glimpses of the game being played on the later worlds, but thy don't get a taste of it directly (only get to see it).

3.
Background graphical style.
A bit dark, and serious, and a bit samey (not enough variation). I think the stuff you collect is ok, it's just the backgrounds (like dark grey castle walls, not too appealing). Not much I can do about that now though.
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Farbs
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2008, 08:55:50 AM »

Some quick notes:

The game appears to stutter a bit, which is mostly visible when large sprites are moving across the screen (like the menus between levels).

Menu transitions are a bit slow. The way these move on and off the screen can really help set a fun bouncy tone, so I'd suggest moving them a little quicker and accelerating them as they leave / decelerating them as they enter.

Any and every button press that does something should make a sound. Closing menus, especially the help prompts, is a big one here.

The "hit" sound made when you banish enemies needs to come into the foreground. Didn't they squeal or squeak in the Amiga version? At the moment it's not very satisfying to defeat them.

The "buy now" screen is confusing, especially since you can't initially deselect the buy option. This made me thing I couldn't use the keyboard to change my selection, which led me to accidentally click buy and thus quit out of the game. That's probably not going to help you get a sale Smiley

I think the background graphics are a bit too noisy. Their detail and contrast makes it quite hard to see what's going on in the foreground. The sprites are lovely though.

The music is fantastic, which I imagine is why you kept it Tongue

The tutorial is a very good idea. There's no way I'd understand everything going on in the game without it.
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moi
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2008, 10:54:46 AM »

Yeah jamie W is totally a spammer but I pardon him because this was one of the best amiga games  Beer!
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Jamie W
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2008, 12:56:43 PM »

Hi Farbs,

Many thanks for the feedback. Smiley

Some quick notes:

The game appears to stutter a bit, which is mostly visible when large sprites are moving across the screen (like the menus between levels).

Menu transitions are a bit slow. The way these move on and off the screen can really help set a fun bouncy tone, so I'd suggest moving them a little quicker and accelerating them as they leave / decelerating them as they enter.

Any and every button press that does something should make a sound. Closing menus, especially the help prompts, is a big one here.

The "hit" sound made when you banish enemies needs to come into the foreground. Didn't they squeal or squeak in the Amiga version? At the moment it's not very satisfying to defeat them.

The "buy now" screen is confusing, especially since you can't initially deselect the buy option. This made me thing I couldn't use the keyboard to change my selection, which led me to accidentally click buy and thus quit out of the game. That's probably not going to help you get a sale Smiley

I think the background graphics are a bit too noisy. Their detail and contrast makes it quite hard to see what's going on in the foreground. The sprites are lovely though.

The music is fantastic, which I imagine is why you kept it Tongue

The tutorial is a very good idea. There's no way I'd understand everything going on in the game without it.

The games' fixed to run at 60hz, I guess it's one of those things, what will either work really well (get smooth results) on some PC's, and badly on others! *eek*

So, you like the UI, just could be a bit faster for your tastes? That's all quite tweakable.

Good point on the SFX too, there are some events that should trigger a SFX, but don't. I'll defo take a look at that.

Hit SFX. I'm tempted to have 2. One for when you hit a baddie. Another for when you actually finish the little blighter off (ooh ooh - I mean banish it).

About the buy now window. I don't fully understand, in what way was it confusing? I don't really want them going to my buy now page, unless they intended to!

Well, thanks once again for the feedback. Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2008, 02:21:07 PM »

About the buy now window. I don't fully understand, in what way was it confusing? I don't really want them going to my buy now page, unless they intended to!

The game is played exclusively with a keyboard, but the nag screen can only be interacted with using a mouse, and to make things worse the keep playing button can only be pressed after some unspecified time(?).  There's a disconnect in flow there.  More than obnoxiously popping up the nag screen between every single level does by itself, I mean.  Of course, the nag screen is probably supposed to break flow, but I think you've taken it a bit too far there.

And yeah, about that.  The demo is already limited to 30 minutes play, do you really have to interrupt the game quite that often as well?  The levels are relatively short even when you (try to) grab everything, so I got the feeling I almost spent as much time looking at the nag screen as playing the game (it was actually less of course, but it felt that way).  The only thing it succeeded in doing was annoying me to the point of quitting the game, even though I thought the game itself was fun.  (Having to switch keyboard/mouse all the time probably didn't help.)

Also, I think I found a bug:  I died on the level where falling things turn into falling spikes (got hit by a spike), but then I proceeded to the next level anyway.
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Jamie W
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2008, 03:06:08 PM »

Ah, thanks for the comments mjau, appreciate it.

Yes, it's not a bug, it's a feature!

No, really! It's like a bonus stage, and you get one chance on it. If you die, that's it, bonus stage over, on with the game. That make sense? Maybe the game doesn't do enough to explain this dynamic? It's supposed to be just good stuff you can collect (until the spikes come), like a free-for-all collect good stuff, with no danger (except, there is danger, I put baddies in there).

With the nag screen ..

I could have the default button, as the 'continue game' option. So, you'd just have to wait 3 or 5 seconds or something, before you need to press it (unless of course, you want to press the buy option).

The way I've set it up, at the moment, it randomly (25% chance) happens after you complete a level. I can tweak it of course, but I guess the question is, what's the optimal setting, to drive sales? Show it less, or more?

My feeling is that it may be better to default to the 'continue game' option, while just forcing them to watch content that they'd get in the full version.

I was also reading a very interesting article by Andy Schatz (of Pocketwatch Games) this morning. He was saying it's a good idea to give the player a taste of content from further on in the game, rather than making them wade through boring tutorials and such like. I'm kinda doing that, I think, but just showing them, rather than letting them play it. Dunno it that's a good idea or not really, but I saw an XBLA game do something simular, and I thought it was a fiendish sales stratagy (ah, it was Mutant Storm).
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Renton
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 03:24:20 PM »

Qwop rip-off.
I kid, I kid. The game is pretty good, but I'm afraid it's not really my cup of tea. I didn't find anything bothersome, though. Good job.
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mjau
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 08:12:28 AM »

No, really! It's like a bonus stage, and you get one chance on it. If you die, that's it, bonus stage over, on with the game. That make sense? Maybe the game doesn't do enough to explain this dynamic? It's supposed to be just good stuff you can collect (until the spikes come), like a free-for-all collect good stuff, with no danger (except, there is danger, I put baddies in there).

Yeah, that makes sense. I did notice that something was different about the level (the rain of goodies and timer), and I actually thought it might be a bonus level at first because of that, but changed my mind for a couple reasons (other than glossing over the intro screen apparently).

First, there was baddies there, which as you say is not common in bonus levels (not a "problem" in itself, but adds up).  Second, every level is filled with goodies anyway, and while that one might have a few more it didn't seem like a big difference.  I mean, there's does seem to be more stuff falling than normal levels have originally, but it's impossible to get everything anyway (I think?), and then there's the umbrellas of other levels that does the same thing.  Third, there was keys and an exit, making the goodies seem like a secondary goal (like in an ordinary level).  And, as I discovered later, the rain of spikes happens on ordinary levels too if you spend too much time, so that's normal too.

For a bonus level in this kind of game I think I'd expect it to end when the timer ran out (assuming I registered that it was a bonus level in the first place..), and death (if present) to either just to have the effect of time running out (not losing credit), or maybe take away all the goodies you collected (more reason to avoid death)?  Not sure.

Quote
With the nag screen ..

I could have the default button, as the 'continue game' option. So, you'd just have to wait 3 or 5 seconds or something, before you need to press it (unless of course, you want to press the buy option).

It's not so much what's the default button that's the issue, it's that 1. you can't use the screen with the keyboard like the rest of the game, and 2. the continue button is on an invisible timer.  I'd make it possible to select what button to press using the arrow keys and then press that button using either enter or space.  Make it possible to use everything without switching away from the keyboard.  Also, the timer should be visible, so that people know that there's not a bug on that screen, but that they just have to wait for a bit, and how much longer that is.  A countdown on the continue button would be fine.

Quote
The way I've set it up, at the moment, it randomly (25% chance) happens after you complete a level. I can tweak it of course, but I guess the question is, what's the optimal setting, to drive sales? Show it less, or more?

Oh, I see.  I think I was just unlucky then, because I didn't exaggerate when I said the nag screen popped up between every single level when I played last time.  And when I died, too.  For me, there was a 100% chance.

I played the game some more today to check (hadn't used up my 30 mins fortunately), and this time it was much better.  I think I was having a bad day or something last time, because I didn't think the nag was that annoying this time Smiley.  Anyway, this time it popped up between the first three levels, and then I didn't see it again for I think 6 levels.

It does seem like your random number generator has some issues though.  There was the 100% nag screen issue I had last time (that was just way too much, bad day or no), and this time I had another problem:  On the bubble tutorial level, there was no more bubbles when I got into the little room on the lower left, which was not fun since you need bubbles to escape from there.  I was stuck there until long after spikes started falling.  Then finally a bubble appeared, which proceeded to run me straight into a falling spike which killed me (could've tried to jump off I guess, but there was no other bubbles and I was a bit tired of waiting by then).  The next try of the level went fine, but I managed to die anyway, and then on the third try it "ran out" of bubbles and got me stuck again.

You could have a maximum delay between bubbles for each generator to fix the bubble issue.  For the nag screen, it may be better to not rely on the rng for that and just have it appear at a constant interval, like every 5 levels or something (and when you quit etc).  (I'm by no means an expert on this kind of thing though, so take what I say with a pinch of salt Smiley)

Quote
My feeling is that it may be better to default to the 'continue game' option, while just forcing them to watch content that they'd get in the full version.

It does make it less likely that people will push the buy button accidentally Smiley

Quote
I was also reading a very interesting article by Andy Schatz (of Pocketwatch Games) this morning. He was saying it's a good idea to give the player a taste of content from further on in the game, rather than making them wade through boring tutorials and such like. I'm kinda doing that, I think, but just showing them, rather than letting them play it. Dunno it that's a good idea or not really, but I saw an XBLA game do something simular, and I thought it was a fiendish sales stratagy (ah, it was Mutant Storm).

I prefer your way.  Letting people think that they're going to play some awesome level and then when they're ready to start go "oops, you can't" is just mean Smiley.  (Though I can see how it could be efficient in making people wanting the full version more..)

I think the demo you've got running in the background of the nag screen shows off things fine, though maybe you could focus a little more on that demo than you do currently, since it's easy to dismiss it as just insignificant background with that big dialog dominating the middle of the screen.  Maybe make the dialog a little smaller or squish it a bit and move it to the bottom edge of the screen, or make it slightly translucent or something?  (I don't know, pinch of salt applies here too Smiley)
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Neo1493
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2008, 01:28:36 PM »

Its a ok game nothing bad about it but nothing that makes it stand out. it gets  Beer! Beer! Beer! Beer! Beer! Beer! and 1/2 beers out of 10.
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OrR
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2008, 07:38:37 AM »

This is also pretty much the only independently published GBA game as far as I can tell (apart from some Chinese stuff probably...) and it looks like you can still get a cartridge! It's one of the gems of my GBA collection. Beer! Get it while you still can!
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Jamie W
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2008, 04:37:39 PM »

Thank you OrR! Gentleman

Glad you liked it. Will be interesting to see how people feel about this new PC version. My own feeling is that's it perhaps more suited to something like the GBA or DS, or even XBLA. But then, when you're only a small indie, and have very limited resources at your disposal, there's only so much you can do, and the PC is a very open and accessable platform for game-dev.

Will see what the future brings though..

Well, I ironed out a lot of the issues with the demo. Thank you to everyone who gave feedback. It's a great help.

Cheers,
Jamie. Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2008, 02:41:00 AM »

Hey Jamie, we spoke a bit some few years back on MSN when I was better known around pixel forums as Wolverine.  I'll try the demo when I got a spare moment though from the screenshots on the site it does look a bit too vectory/flash style whereas I was always fond of the simple but highly effective pixel work in the Amiga version but then apparently I'm something of a pixel purist and stuck in the age where the 8 bits were still clinging on bravely and the Amiga was ruling.

I don't tend to play a lot of games on PC anymore mainly using it to play some indie stuff and 2 player MAME stuff with the dual x-arcade sticks, so I would love to see the game appear on the consoles download services.  Some of my Xbox360 owning friends would love this kind of game to download and play in 2 player, the cuteness and simplicity would likely do well on the Wii and DSi too and I personally would love it on PSN as a PS3 and PSP download (I still play the Amiga version a heck of a lot running on PSPUAE, hope that's ok Tongue)

Also Qwak greatly inspired one of my own projects in development called Booze N' Balls (mainly started cos I was getting sick of so many cute platformers).  I dunno if it's too similar but I was going to credit you and Qwak as the main inspiration.  Qwak is still by far and away my favorite 2 player single screen platformer. 

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Jamie W
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2008, 08:20:21 AM »

Hey Wolverine, yeah I remember you well!

Yeah, please do check out the demo, and post your feedback here, or send me email (and send me a link to your booze n balls game too). Smiley

The graphics look vector-ish, but they are actually pixel work. I did most of them in pro-motion over-sized, and then scale them down, getting this lovely anti-aliasing on the edges.

I'd love to do an XBLA or DS version, there's so much I could do with the game..

All the best,
Jamie. Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2008, 04:37:23 PM »

pixel art ftw!  Beer!
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