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[Alevice]

Jackson pollock? try to wrap gameplay around giant splotches

I remember a flash game that did this more or less.

[ThetaGames]

How about Marcel Duchamp?  Throughout his lifetime - his art styles drastically changed, from Fauvist to Cubist, to his own distinct style and Readymades. 

The Bride Stripped Bare by her Bachelors, Even (The Large Glass):  (my favorite of his works)



His most famous Readymade, Fountain:



What would a Readymade game be like?  Would it be like just taking someone else's program, adding one thing, and calling it one's own?  If so, then could I just do this:


Or would a Readymade game be something deeper, like taking an existing program, and putting it into a completely different context (like Duchamp's Fountain)?

The Readymade concept would obviously not be hard to do, but it would be very difficult to rectify the issue of artistic property, and, like it did in the art world, would make it difficult to define what it means to create a game.

[Bennett]

I think the point is that the urinal designer was never going to protest that the urinal was his 'art'. Duchamp called it art, and changed it from hardware into art by doing so. The equivalent would be to take something that is not a game and release it as one.

For example, you could release "Microsoft Excel: the game" (maybe bolt in a scoring mechanism to lend yourself credibility)

Or even better, release "Microsoft Word: The Game", a completely unaltered copy of Word with a readme.txt that tells you the word count is your score.


Interesting question: if Duchamp had made the urinal today, would the urinal-designer have sued him for copyright infringement?

[increpare]

TG: I'm a big duchamp fan here; the large glass is...fantastic...

Interesting question: if Duchamp had made the urinal today, would the urinal-designer have sued him for copyright infringement?

I don't see on what grounds they might...

What would a Readymade game be like?  Would it be like just taking someone else's program, adding one thing, and calling it one's own?  If so, then could I just do this:

I don't know quite if duchamp was too interested in issues of ownership so much as issues of what constituted art.  That said, there was a significant amount of concern for issues of ownership and collective creation of art (particularly in surrealism) in the air at the time, so I wouldn't rule it out either.  However, insofar as I've been able to tell by reading his writings, I've not seen him express such concerns.

I think, with regards to the large glass, the most obvious approach would be to have a deeply allegorical game, that came with a booklet with the authors thoughts about and explanations of various facets of the game with the whole piece being the sum of both of these, not just the game alone.

[ThetaGames]

I think the point is that the urinal designer was never going to protest that the urinal was his 'art'. Duchamp called it art, and changed it from hardware into art by doing so. The equivalent would be to take something that is not a game and release it as one.

Right - he took something that wasn't art, and called it art.  Like the Word example, he was taking something and putting it into another context.  What about his "assisted" Readymade L.H.O.O.Q.?

Here, he took the likeness of a very famous work of art, added his own gender-bending twist (to an image of already questionable gender), gave it a clever title (the French pronunciation of the letters L.H.O.O.Q. loosely translates to "she has a hot ass"), and called it art.  I feel like the video-game equivalent would be to take a very popular game, and adjust just a few things (possibly including the title) to parodize it, while bringing out a deeper meaning.

I think, with regards to the large glass, the most obvious approach would be to have a deeply allegorical game, that came with a booklet with the authors thoughts about and explanations of various facets of the game with the whole piece being the sum of both of these, not just the game alone.

Or, you could just let people think about the meanings themselves (of course, if you do that, then most people wouldn't get any meaning.  To be honest, I could not figure out most of the themes in The Large Glass without understanding the back-story behind some of the images in it.  Therefore, maybe an artistic explanation is for the better).  Either way, the game would provoke thought, which was one of Duchamp's main goals (he states in one of his essays that he wanted to bring art at the service of the mind).  I feel as though this is a necessity for a "Duchampian" game.  Even in a "Readymade" game, I feel as though it would have to contain some deeper meaning for players to contemplate.  Maybe the Microsoft Word game could satirize the idea of word counts in college essays. 

Also, earlier in this thread there was mentioning of Dan Flavin.  His works explore a very simple (yet profound concept):  The manner in which light fills a space.  Here is my idea:  Make a game with a completely black screen, except for some very bright areas of importance to gameplay (like ships, enemies, etc).  Make all of the x-coordinates inverted (so in the x-direction, controls would also be inverted).  Then, instruct players to turn off the lights in the room, and turn their computer monitors toward a blank wall.  The actual game would be this fuzzy, ethereal projection (controlling might be difficult for a laptop, and moving monitors might be difficult for CRT's, though).

[increpare]

Here, he took the likeness of a very famous work of art, added his own gender-bending twist (to an image of already questionable gender), gave it a clever title (the French pronunciation of the letters L.H.O.O.Q. loosely translates to "she has a hot ass"), and called it art.  I feel like the video-game equivalent would be to take a very popular game, and adjust just a few things (possibly including the title) to parodize it, while bringing out a deeper meaning.

Ah right.  Taking a well-known game.  I gotcha now.   That works by analogy with the ML much better than with the urinal

Or, you could just let people think about the meanings themselves.

Right, but that would be a way in which it would differ from the large glass, which is completely and intentionally tied up with these explanatory notes.

Then, instruct players to turn off the lights in the room, and turn their computer monitors toward a blank wall.  The actual game would be this fuzzy, ethereal projection (controlling might be difficult for a laptop, and moving monitors might be difficult for CRT's, though).

What about instructing the player to turn off all lights, and play with their eyes closed? That would be more doable for people with desktops. You'd have weaker visual cues, but maybe you could do something with it...I think the experience might be more intimate.

[Captain_404]

Jackson pollock? try to wrap gameplay around giant splotches

I remember a flash game that did this more or less.

http://www.jacksonpollock.org/

This?


Which actually brings up an interesting point, why couldn't a game in the style of a certain artist just be about imitating that artist like the above flash game does? It could extend into the question of what truly makes the work meaningful, the colors and balance (which can be imitated, though not perfectly, by a computer) or the artist saying it has meaning.

A lot of these posts seem to focus on how one might attach an art style to a game mechanic. Perhaps a better focus is how to create a mechanic which reflects the way a viewer might interact with the painting, mimicking the intended logical or emotional response. To attach a game mechanic to an art style.

[ThetaGames]

Ah right.  Taking a well-known game.  I gotcha now.   That works by analogy with the ML much better than with the urinal

Yeah, but I would have to do more than just change "Pixel Studio" to "Theta Games" to make it a Duchampian Readymade; my alterations would have to cause players to contemplate the deeper meaning of such a Readymade.

What about instructing the player to turn off all lights, and play with their eyes closed? That would be more doable for people with desktops. You'd have weaker visual cues, but maybe you could do something with it...I think the experience might be more intimate.

I think it might be too tempting for people to want to open their eyes (thus ruining the whole experience).  I was thinking about one of Flavin's works, in which he places a fluorescent light around a corner that is blocked off to museum visitors.  Thus, they cannot see the source of the light, but only its projection around the corner.

Although, along those lines, it would also be cool to instruct players to hang a piece of wax paper over their monitors.

[Bennett]

Ah right.  Taking a well-known game.  I gotcha now.   That works by analogy with the ML much better than with the urinal

Yeah, but I would have to do more than just change "Pixel Studio" to "Theta Games" to make it a Duchampian Readymade; my alterations would have to cause players to contemplate the deeper meaning of such a Readymade.

I've already seen this done with both Pac-man and Tetris. There was that Pac-man project with four reinterpretations, not sure who did it. In one version, Pac-man get's more and more zoned out on power pills until the game ends with a newspaper headline showing that he went on a pill-fueled rampage.

[agj]

http://www.jacksonpollock.org/

This is quite beautiful.

[december]

I want to see somehing in the style of Ralph Steadman's illos

[ThetaGames]

I've already seen this done with both Pac-man and Tetris. There was that Pac-man project with four reinterpretations, not sure who did it. In one version, Pac-man get's more and more zoned out on power pills until the game ends with a newspaper headline showing that he went on a pill-fueled rampage.

I would say that is an example of a Duchamp-like game; he certainly had a sense of humor as well.  I kind of want to play this . . .