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[Fallsburg]

I'm pretty sure it's that if you aren't speaking up against the people harassing,  doxxing,  sending rape/death threats then you are complicit.

Anyway,  the devs on here upset about cronyism/indieluminati here's an analogy.

There is a plate with 10 cookies. AAA games walks up and eats 9 of them. High profile Indies walk up and eat a cookie. 4chan says to low profile Indies "hey, those high profile indies just ate your cookie."

This industry/media IS corrupt,  but the focus now is entirely being driven by anti social justice fucked instead of the actual corruption.

[jamesprimate]

The quote reminds me of an MP whom, on the subject of reducing privacy online once said "you're either with the pedophiles or against them!", which is a bit of a false dilemma. Absolutist statements like that are usually suspect.

ah yeah i could see how the quote out of context would raise flags. zinn is talking about culture as a whole represented as a dynamic moving thing, not specifically feminism or any one issue really. its to illustrate that the concept of neutrality is a kind of comforting myth, since whether you intend it or not inaction is tacit support of the status quo.

i dont know if i believe it entirely because obviously you cant get involved in every single thing, that would be preposterous, but i definitely think understanding the concept is important: taking a position of neutrality DOES have certain consequences. Its not a moral "get out of jail free card"

[Tuba]

Here's a good text on the #GamerGate situation: https://medium.com/@upstreamism/to-fair-minded-proponents-of-gamergate-7f3ce77301bb

The writer actually talked to some people on twitter using the hashtag and tried to understand the situation.

What I get here is that people are now more focused on exposing and attacking corruption in journalism... but they have no idea of how to do that or even what journalism corruption is exactly. Meanwhile we have a bunch of bad apples using the situation to keep harassing developers and journalists and being jerks.

So, everything is still a mess

[Aik]

I wrote a long angry post but I'm not going to post it.

Let's just say that I hate both sides and wish they would both fuck off so we can find some solution to the legitimate problems of women's representation in games with alienating half the people who play them.

[Faust06]

i dont know if i believe it entirely because obviously you cant get involved in every single thing, that would be preposterous, but i definitely think understanding the concept is important: taking a position of neutrality DOES have certain consequences. Its not a moral "get out of jail free card"

Good point, I agree.

[Sik]

I'm pretty sure it's that if you aren't speaking up against the people harassing,  doxxing,  sending rape/death threats then you are complicit.

Honestly I'm not even sure that speaking against that is enough. That's basically just talking, not acting. It's easy to just say "I'm against people doing this". Of course, the question is what would actually be a potential proper solution...

[Leon Fook]

Here's a good text on the #GamerGate situation: https://medium.com/@upstreamism/to-fair-minded-proponents-of-gamergate-7f3ce77301bb

He/she should write another article on what gone wrong on the other side. I think both side should just go and play game already.

[Nillo]

I'm pretty sure it's that if you aren't speaking up against the people harassing,  doxxing,  sending rape/death threats then you are complicit.

It should be noted that threats and harassment are not so much opinions as they are tactics - so being against harassment does not necessarily mean you are taking any side in the debate itself. People are being harassed all over the place, not only Zoe and Anita but also other famous people like Christina Sommers who voice dissent on contemporary feminism.

If one should dismiss an entire side of a debate because some people on that side use disgraceful tactics, then it follows that Anita's supporters should also be dismissed, because they occasionally use harassment to further their cause. For an example of this see the harassment/doxxing of Jayd3fox.

[Tuba]

Here's a good text on the #GamerGate situation: https://medium.com/@upstreamism/to-fair-minded-proponents-of-gamergate-7f3ce77301bb

He/she should write another article on what gone wrong on the other side. I think both side should just go and play game already.

From what I get the other side is just not taking this seriously because of the harassment and the jerks on the GG side. Some female writers have already quit because of this whole thing, the situation is bad.

[Superb Joe]

i still don't know or care what's going on but it's important to note at this stage that i've taken a fibre supplement and managed to dislodge several small, dense pellets of shit so far.

[s0]

There is a plate with 10 cookies. AAA games walks up and eats 9 of them. High profile Indies walk up and eat a cookie. 4chan says to low profile Indies "hey, those high profile indies just ate your cookie."

This industry/media IS corrupt,  but the focus now is entirely being driven by anti social justice fucked instead of the actual corruption.

one of the most vocal critics of the IGF is anna anthropy. it'd be really sad if critique of the "indie scene" was hijacked by the MRA crowd because it would delegitimize even the legit criticism for years to come.

[Fallsburg]

I agree. I've been a vocal critic of the IGF but its problems aren't some vast conspiracy,  just mismanagement and poor design.   But certain parties are causing people to focus their attention in all of the wrong places.

[Leon Fook]

From what I get the other side is just not taking this seriously because of the harassment and the jerks on the GG side. Some female writers have already quit because of this whole thing, the situation is bad.

jerk are going to be a jerk, no matter what side you put them on. the thing is, this is not really about one sided war(GG attack other), both side is throwing toxic at each other and since the writer/journalist side(the toxic one) refuse to understand the other side and then go around writing something, only focused on their side of the story, is inviting the jerk from GG side to attack. I'M NOT JUSTIFYING THE ATTACK THOUGH, harassment toward someone is bad, i condemn that.

the thing with GG is, from what i understand(by going to their reddit and whatever), is that they're angry at some of the journalist for reporting unverified story, for only focused on one side of the harassment(pre shitstorm), and then for vilify the term "gamer", where 99% of them just don't care, via a one sided article, and nepotism in some of their article. i don't really understand anything other than that, and how they're suppose to "reform" the journalist is still a mystery(is that even possible).

and now the @upstreamism is, even though in cool tone, telling them their fight is meaningless, that they're basically losing because they're chasing away the journalist that's trying to help(they're clearly not. well some of them maybe.) that, in my view, is pretty much biased.

i might be missing something, but i don't really have much time to dig stuff while both side throwing shit at each other.

also, this writer hit the spot.
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/BenjaminQuintero/20140902/224671/Can_We_All_Get_Along.php
both side should just shut up and play game. or finish this once and for all, Notch style(like playing a round of Counter Strike)

edit: also i'm not saying which side is right, and which is wrong, and i'm not taking side.

[Colon Semicolon]

I like how people are throwing around 'MRA' or 'Feminist' in this as though it means anything or is even relevant to the situation. It's like you want to de-legitimize the fact there are both men and women who really don't like that a PR firm (Silverstring Media) started by hipsters and professional victims has taken to telling us- the people who enjoy playing these interactive challenges, that not only are we not their demographic (because we really need more art deco experiences like Gone Home) but we are also misogynists and horrible people.
Nevermind that the IGF is a sham that has no properly defined rules and is staffed by people from Silverstring Media, or the fact that most, if not all finalists of IGF are friends of them, staff of the firm, or have supported the firm in some way.
Nevermind that these people attack anyone who criticizes their decisions, sending their droves of followers to whine and send death threats. Or the fact this 'Gamers are Dead' thing was planned a year in advance and that everyone simply forced their hand.
Hell, Nevermind that they threaten big name developers with shaming their staff and all sorts of other horseshit. It's all about the MRAs and misogynists isn't it? THOSE DAMNED COMMIES, WE GOTTA GET EM! Isn't that the mentality of everything in the US? Separation of everything because coming to an understanding is actually hard and takes effort?

It's all quite amusing. These are the rivals we were going to get in the industry? A bunch of hipsters with their own agenda and a fear of not having identity? (It's literally all about identity, I could write pages about this shit.) I was hoping we'd have a scary person, like a samurai with a scarred eye challenging us to a duel, or maybe a mob boss controlling an illuminati-like organization. Not a bunch of spoiled rich kids!

[Blademasterbobo]

[s0]

It's like you want to de-legitimize the fact there are both men and women who really don't like that a PR firm (Silverstring Media) started by hipsters and professional victims has taken to telling us- the people who enjoy playing these interactive challenges, that not only are we not their demographic

idk about u but i can live without being a "demographic"

also the term "art deco" doesnt mean watever you think it means

[Colon Semicolon]

Man I don't know Gone Home reminds me of those art deco ceiling fans where they take regular desk fans and stick them on a slowly rotating thing. Like they're sorta neat to look at but they provide fucking no air circulation and they're not as good as a real ceiling fan. Just like Gone Home isn't a real game, it's like walking through a museum. Except the museum is like some weird old dude's collection of hundreds of erasers he collected over the years and why would you want to look at that.
Games are about presenting a challenge to accomplish, and Gone Home doesn't seem to get that because the only challenge is whether you'll fall asleep before it presents you some deep meaningful message about LESBIANS (I swear to god why is that an issue. Half our family friends' kids have come out and nobody gives a shit, we just go 'oh, okay, that's what they wanna do!' and then not really talk about it further BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN ISSUE.)

Also I don't think you can really say you're not a demographic. I mean you're a person and all, but some company is gonna target their product towards you based on even the tiniest thing. That's just what they gonna do.

Blademasterbobo:
Are you the final boss
cuz like with a name like that you'd be a cool guy to duel to the death over the supremacy of the video game dynasties.

[ink.inc]

Half our family friends' kids have come out and nobody gives a shit, we just go 'oh, okay, that's what they wanna do!' and then not really talk about it further BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN ISSUE.)

unfortunately it actually is an issue, in several parts of the world

one of my sisters high school friends got kicked out of her house and disowned when she came out as a lesbian

and one of my brothers friends got beat up by her father so bad she had to be hospitalized (when she came out as trans)

and this is in california, a relatively liberal state in the usa

dont assume the world is sunshine and daisies just because you happen to live in a nice little corner of it, most people are not that lucky

[Colon Semicolon]

Are we in those parts of the world? Are we going to raise awareness in china because somebody makes a game where the message is lesbians? No, because nobody in africa, russia, china, cuba, et all are gonna play it or care. They got more important shit on the table like the INCREDIBLY BAD ISSUES WITH HUMAN SAFETY AND POISONING THEIR OWN LANDS. And you can bet none of the proceeds for that product are going to help ANY of that.

This shouldn't be an issue even here in the US, but people like separating themselves off into their secure communities and cliques because god forbid we ever see anything different. But really, making a interactive virtual museum will change that? No, you're literally preaching to choirs of people who already know and understand it, and they'll either be okay with it or they won't care.

Edit: I don't think that Gone Home would have changed the minds of those girls' families or father. It doesn't raise any actual awareness to people who aren't going to play games and it's only media notice was explicitly game media.
The whole fucking world is shit. everyone's got it pretty bad when you get right down to it. Nobody's gonna give anyone a handout for being different. Nobody's gonna fix the world with a niche art exhibit only known to a very specific group of gamers and won awards in a niche market of the industry. You're gonna have to actually go out and do shit for your community. You have to work hard and change things in your own neck of the woods, and eventually work together with other communities and build up respect and trust for those with different lifestyles and situations. From there you can spread things and make a difference. It may be slow, but it has serious lasting effects. THAT is what makes a difference.
But you won't, because that takes alot more effort.

[jolene]

hey dude, it's ok that you don't like "gone home" but going through enormous lengths to hate it by saying willfully ignorant things like coming out isn't a problem for LGBT people (first world and third world) is disgusting.