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[deadeye]

There's been a discussion in Technical about jumping physics for some time now, which has basically been a debate on the merits and drawbacks of inertia in 2D platform games.  I (and others) were curious as to some people's responses there, so I started a small poll to see which of the above three control schemes people considered the best.  Since the topic was kind of old and not everyone visits Tech, I decided to move my poll to General to try to drum up more responses.

I chose these three games because most people would be familiar with them, and they all have very different, yet very polished control schemes ranging from no inertia to a hell of a lot of inertia.

This is purely about controlling the basic movement of the character, so disregard any fighting.  As for Sonic, imagine you're playing Mystic Cave Zone, because there are more platforms and less loops (not to mention cooler music).

When choosing, try to be as objective as possible.  In other words, this isn't a "vote for your favorite franchise" poll.  Sure, you might think Mega Man is cooler than Mario, but that doesn't necessarily make him easier to control.  And you might have a homemade and curiously stained Miles Prower costume hidden in your closet (you freak), but don't let your vote be swayed by your secret, shameful lust.

[Guert]

It's all a matter of context. Mario's control has been tweaked for a game where jumping is the main mechanism. Sonic on the other hand, has a control tweaked in a game where the speed is alot more important (may it be speed at which the avatar moves or the speed at which you must take gameplay decisions or change idea). Mega man is a game of precision and balance (and subtility if I may add ). The jumping mechanism is equal to the other mechanisms. It allows you precise control but at the same time doesn't offer you as much freedom as the two other games (which is good in that case).

One control scheme that's universaly good for all games would be somehwat impossible since it all depends on what the game wants the player to do/feel.

The important thing is that the jumping controls should be responsive to the player's will. In general, I feel like game that allows multiple heights when jumping (tapping the button makes a short jump, holding makes it longer) always feel natural (but the again it depends on the game: Street Fighter 2 has fixed character jumping heights and it's perfect that way).

So, to me, none of them are easier or harder than the other, but I prefer when I have more control over the character (Sonic's controls always felt a bit chaotic to me but it fits with the speed theme none the less)

[StephenAnthony]

Well said, Guert.

I, personally, found Sonic's jumping to be the "best", and by that I mean, the most fun form of jumping. That is, assuming we're talking about the first game in each series. Mario, originally, slid all over the place and could jump very far. Mega Man, on the other hand, had far less area to cover when he jumped and absolutely no intertia.

If we're talking about more recent iterations, it's a lot harder to tell because they've gotten away from their original jumping a little. (Maybe not Sonic as much). And, as Guert said, it's hard to compare Mario and Sonic because their core gameplay mechanic is pretty dissimilar.

Since this is about "ease of control", you immediately have to discount Mario, I'd think. Mario, originally, was built to be difficult to control. Later versions, like Super Mario, weren't nearly as bad, but as far as "ease"? I don't know, I still think he was the most difficult character to control.

Megaman was EXTREMELY easy to control. Slow moving, small gaps to jump. The levels were built on recognizing patterns.

Sonic was chaotic, but I, personally, didn't find it terribly difficult as far as actual jumping... But that was likely linked to level design as well.

If you think about it, actually, Megaman is on one end of the spectrum, Sonic on the other and Mario is right in between them. Maybe that's part of what made the Mario games so great. At any rate, I've voted for Megeman.

[deadeye]

Some stuff...

So out of these three control styles there isn't one that's more comfortable to you?  I know they're each tailored to suit the needs of the overall gameplay style of the individual games, but surely out of these three games there must be one that you're best at controlling, and one that you're maybe not quite so good at as the others.

Judging from clues in your post I'd say you favor Mega Man's control scheme, and aren't quite as fond of Sonic's control scheme.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally, I split the difference between the two.  As far as pure platforming goes, Mega Man just feels more "twitchy" to me.  Sure, having no inertia when jumping makes for pixel-perfect landing, but you also have to have pixel-perfect reflexes to pull it off.  I often find I'm trying to correct my trajectory in midair, and over-compensating because, well... no inertia.

As for Sonic, it does have moments where it switches focus to more pure platforming rather than race-tracking.  In those moments Sonic's heavy inertia is most noticeable because the buildup needed to navigate even short hops is rather substantial.  When I miss a jump in Sonic, it's usually a small, pathetic jump that falls short because I underestimated the run-up.  Sonic's inertia also leaves him lacking when it comes to mid-air tricks like hooking your jump around things the way Mega Man and Mario are able to.

I just find that Mario is a nice, comfortable solution somewhere in between the two.  The little bit of inertia seems (to me, anyway) to allow for smoother and more natural handling.  I find that when I'm playing a Mario game, I don't need to correct my mid-air trajectory as much as with Mega Man, and I miss fewer jumps.  The buildup to jumping-speed isn't as grueling as Sonic, and the lower inertia makes Mario's jumps more consistent than Sonic's wide range from "puny hop" to "I-can-see-my-house-from-here."

Sure, this is all just personal preference, but that's what I'm curious about.

[deadeye]

That is, assuming we're talking about the first game in each series.

Well, I did list Super Mario World.  As you said, the original Super Mario Bros handles like ass.

If you think about it, actually, Megaman is on one end of the spectrum, Sonic on the other and Mario is right in between them.

Yes, that's why I chose these three games.

[Alevice]

Megaman X has a different jumping mechanism than the three mentioned, IMO, and I find it the most adequate for most case (I still like mario jumping skills on smw, however)

[Guert]

If I have to pick, everything out of context and based only on my personal taste, Mario's control would be my favorite since it is more permissive (as you explained with megaman's pixel perfect landing) but not too wild (like sonic). It's a nice middle that I feel easy to pick up and learn.  I still like the others tho. The only thing I can say that I know I'm 100% sure of is that Sonic's control is the one I least enjoy because of the lack of control in tight spots, sometimes causing some unwanted movements and results.

[Lim-Dul]

Personally, I split the difference between the two.  As far as pure platforming goes, Mega Man just feels more "twitchy" to me.  Sure, having no inertia when jumping makes for pixel-perfect landing, but you also have to have pixel-perfect reflexes to pull it off.  I often find I'm trying to correct my trajectory in midair, and over-compensating because, well... no inertia.

Well said, deadeye. That was precisely the problem I was having with Psychosomnium, the game that started the whole discussion. =)
In fact it's also the problem I'm having e.g. with Contra. It's simply impossible to control your jumps precisely without making a "Dance Dance Revolution" type of move - left-right-tight-left-left - ah, I grabbed the handhold. ;-)
You don't move left or right at various speeds - you can only zip by at full speed or not move at all - how exactly is this supposed to be more precise when you have LESS control over your character? The only way of compensating for this movement mechanic is tapping the directional keys instead of pressing them down constantly or changing the direction repeatedly.

As I mentioned in the first post of the "old" topic those "twitch" controls may have been better when played with a joystick. Unless I'm mistaken the original Contra arcade machines had analog joysticks that allowed for running at various speeds making acceleration something the player had to simulate manually.

No inertia at all is simply counter-intuitive because that's not how jumping and running works in the real world. Of course in the real world you can't change direction in mid-air but that's a different matter altogether.

I'm still an advocate of inertia in platformers (just not too much of it) UNLESS you use some other means to make the jumping more varied/precise and/or forgiving. E.g. the newer MegaMan titles with all the boosts, wall jumps and whatnot.

And again I must hint at the fact that Cave Story, a title revered by almost everybody, uses inertia both for the movement and the jumping. It has a nice boost feature later too.

Megaman X has a different jumping mechanism than the three mentioned, IMO, and I find it the most adequate for most case (I still like mario jumping skills on smw, however)

Nope, it doesn't. It's the same movement and jumping mechanism found in early MegaMan titles, only with the 2-3-pixel inertia/acceleration/friction (on the ground - in the air it's EXACTLY the same) removed. It introduced wall-jumps and boosts right from the beginning of the game, though.

It's funny how people don't remember what type of movement particular titles exhibit. I mentioned this in my first post of the "old" thread as well. Sometimes you can tell that "something" is wrong with a given game but can't pinpoint the source of the "bad impression" but when the movement is polished and intuitive we just don't pay any attention to it.

P.S. Super Mario Bros. is the best-selling game of all time. This has to mean something - e.g. that the control scheme was quite good? It was all about jumping and precise control of the character after all. =)

[skaldicpoet9]

Personally I feel that Mario is by far the most comfortable of the three. Sonic coming in second and Mega Man a distant third.

The thing about (Super Mario World) is that Mario's control is very natural and doesn't feel as if you are losing control. I can pretty much zip through a level on SMW and not get hit once. On Sonic this is a little harder due to the aforementioned speed of our blue rodent friend, in parts it feels as if you are in complete control and then all of a sudden you spin right into one of those damn swinging spikey balls or something similar. Mega Man to me just seems like he moves with a stick up his ass, the control is very methodical and plodding, very often I will try to avoid something only to hit everything else other then the thing I was trying to avoid and then explode into a million tiny little sparks.

But like Guert said, I think it is all a matter of the respective contexts of each character. Mario is about control, Sonic is speed and Mega Man is precision.

However, I love the control schemes in all of these games very much and each one of them is good in their own right.

I just think Mario moves like he's eaten a big plate of Lasagna which makes him ideal to control :D

[Guert]

I just think Mario moves like he's eaten a big plate of Lasagna which makes him ideal to control :D

Mamma mi-a! We should try to make a fat sonic or megaman to see what it would do on the controls

[skaldicpoet9]

Yeah, like a Sonic that has eaten too many chili-dogs lol...

Or a Mega Man who has eaten too many...energy capsule thingies?....

[Tanner]

Out of the three, i would say that Mario feels the most natural.

[Derek]

Funny, I always felt Megaman was the easiest to control.  The sliding in Mario throws me a bit.

Have to play those games again to make sure...

[Golds]

I've always disliked the jerky way Megaman moves, and that you can't shoot up or down.

This feels like a Beatles vs. Stones situation.

[Lim-Dul]

This feels like a Beatles vs. Stones situation.

Not according to the poll. :-D

And it's Beatles all the way. :-P

[Guert]

And it's Beatles all the way. :-P

Aye!

[Movius]

Beach Boys you heathens.

oh and Mario is best.

Mega man is too twitchy and his jump doesn't feel right. Sonic takes too long to get moving and at high speed you can run into things before you've perceived them being on screen.

[deadeye]

Beach Boys you heathens.

Maybe if Brian Wilson had been allowed to finish Smile... but we'll never know.

Voting Beatles.  And Mario.  With Luigi singing Octopus's Garden.

[AdamAtomic]

Overall I think Sonic's controls are vastly superior to either of the other two games, but if forced into a heavy platforming situation they definitely suffer, exactly like they do in Mystic Cave Zone.  I agree that Mario's slidiness is off-putting at first, but once you start to dig it you really feel like you have total control...megaman is too much in the early castlevania mode of "uh oh!  you jumped!  you are FUCKED NOW son cross your fingers!!"

[Stij]

Overall I think Sonic's controls are vastly superior to either of the other two games, but if forced into a heavy platforming situation they definitely suffer, exactly like they do in Mystic Cave Zone.

o lawdy yes. I hated that level.

I have to say, overall, Mario's probably the best when it comes to controls. Doesn't quite match Sonic's sense of speed, though.