next »

[moi]

Just for the record, my comments are not made out of anger or passion, I genuinely don't care about la mulana wii or cave story or whatever.
I am a capitalist and if Nicalis screws devs over, Good for them! Enough of this indie adulation crap.

[BoydTheMilkman]

Wait, if I remember correctly I read in an Indie Brawl topic it was Pixel and Nigoro that didn't want their characters in the game, not Nicalis. In fact, Tyrone even SUGGESTED movesets for some of the Cave Story characters for Indie Brawl.

On the topic of the "Wii-exclusive" chit-chats: It does take quite a bit of money to develop both for the Wii and the PC at the same time, but on the Wii it can reach a broader audience, beyond our nice little indie group. Probably why Pixel and Nifflas decided to agree to this.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

The thing with this thread is that there isn't a single legitimate criticism made, only the obsessive rambling of those still pissed off about being cockblocked with Indie Brawl.

In fact, any links to anything resembling reality are tenuous at best. I'm not exagerrating when I say that these are the sorts of leaps of logic made by Moon-Hoaxers or 9/11 'truthers' (met 2 of these last week, good times.)

This entire conspiracy theory relies on the assumption that Pixel and Nifflas are simultaneously creative geniuses, who have made some of the great works of our time, and at the same time drooling simpletons incapable of signing and understanding a contract or making even the simplest of business decisions that any rational adult makes every day.

i think nicalis evading the question of why they decided to make night game wii exclusive after promising it for the pc as well is the most important single legitimate criticism. if it's for piracy, or lack of funds, why not just say that? it's not very good PR to ignore questions from your core fans / community. it's bad even as a business decision.

the rest of the criticisms (trying to get let's plays removed from youtube, not letting the game in indie brawl, etc.) are expected from a publisher. and cave story having bad music and a few bugs is expected from any new developer (it was their first wiiware game, right?). they can always patch it and improve it later.

[TwilightVulpine]

Wait, if I remember correctly I read in an Indie Brawl topic it was Pixel and Nigoro that didn't want their characters in the game, not Nicalis. In fact, Tyrone even SUGGESTED movesets for some of the Cave Story characters for Indie Brawl.

Now that's weird. Maybe Pixel did this because he thought that's what Nicalis expected him to do.

He only stopped allowing ports after Nicalis contacted him, right?

[googoogjoob]

Wait, if I remember correctly I read in an Indie Brawl topic it was Pixel and Nigoro that didn't want their characters in the game, not Nicalis. In fact, Tyrone even SUGGESTED movesets for some of the Cave Story characters for Indie Brawl.

Now that's weird. Maybe Pixel did this because he thought that's what Nicalis expected him to do.

He only stopped allowing ports after Nicalis contacted him, right?

Pixel has never commented on the matter, so it's possible that Pixel was never even asked about the fan project stuff.

[BoydTheMilkman]

Wait, if I remember correctly I read in an Indie Brawl topic it was Pixel and Nigoro that didn't want their characters in the game, not Nicalis. In fact, Tyrone even SUGGESTED movesets for some of the Cave Story characters for Indie Brawl.

Now that's weird. Maybe Pixel did this because he thought that's what Nicalis expected him to do.

He only stopped allowing ports after Nicalis contacted him, right?

Or maybe he didn't really trust a group of not really well-known indie developers? Who knows? Maybe if someone goes undercover and exposes Nicalis should we judge them, but not now.

[TwilightVulpine]

Or maybe he didn't really trust a group of not really well-known indie developers? Who knows? Maybe if someone goes undercover and exposes Nicalis should we judge them, but not now.

"Who was right? Who was wrong? I don't know. Maybe I will never know."

[Movius]

i think nicalis evading the question of why they decided to make night game wii exclusive after promising it for the pc as well is the most important single legitimate criticism. if it's for piracy, or lack of funds, why not just say that? it's not very good PR to ignore questions from your core fans / community. it's bad even as a business decision.

the rest of the criticisms (trying to get let's plays removed from youtube, not letting the game in indie brawl, etc.) are expected from a publisher. and cave story having bad music and a few bugs is expected from any new developer (it was their first wiiware game, right?). they can always patch it and improve it later.

Perhaps a foolish move on Nicalis behalf. But theres still nothing that would be suspicious to anyone not starting with the assumption of a secret Nicalis conpiracy to screw over developers and force them into silence and then working backwards hunting for anomalies.

[Widget]

Pixel has never commented on the matter, so it's possible that Pixel was never even asked about the fan project stuff.

IIRC this is perfectly accurate. Unless I've forgotten what went on to an utterly absurd degree, it was Nicalis who sent the email stating that permission for Quote was not granted. To the best of my knowledge there was never any suggestion that Pixel himself had made any decisions in that regard.

Of course, that's a little confused by the fact that very few IB-contributors speak Japanese but I don't remember hearing any quote that even claimed to be from Pixel himself...

Anyway! The other thing I wanted to mention was that Goog hasn't had even the slightest involvement in IB, damnit! To the best of my knowledge he's not even made a post in the relevant subforum....  

Eugh... P.S.: FWIW I still think the whole drama here is that indie-developers (through ignorance or active choice) have made deals with a publisher. It might upset people but it's not wrong when judged by the information I (we, maybe aswell?) have available...

[JackieJay]

i think nicalis evading the question of why they decided to make night game wii exclusive after promising it for the pc as well is the most important single legitimate criticism. if it's for piracy, or lack of funds, why not just say that? it's not very good PR to ignore questions from your core fans / community. it's bad even as a business decision.

 

What else is there to say when forum goers know more about business decisions and PR than the dudes running their publishing companies...

[Valter]

What was your most favorite part for making the WiiWare version of Cave Story?

I really like that the music and art was remade.

This irony is straight up killing me.

[TwilightVulpine]

What was your most favorite part for making the WiiWare version of Cave Story?

I really like that the music and art was remade.

This irony is straight up killing me.

The graphics are surely awesome. The music may not fit very well(don't know, didn't play), but there is a clear reason why he likes it:

Going back to the original Cave Story, by the time it was completed I had listened to the background music enough times to hate it, so it's fun to play it with new music.

[Melly]

I don't know where to put this since the Cave Story thread was closed.
Here is a little interview with Pixel revealing A LOT OF STUFF (and talking about sequels, inspirations etc.)

http://www.destructoid.com/cave-story-creator-talks-inspirations-sequel-and-more-168541.phtml

Sorry if it's not relevant to the thread or whatever 

That thread seemed to be going nowhere, but I will reopen it if you post that there.

[Jetsetlemming]

The biggest issue with Nicalis I see is that the wiiware version of Cave Story was in development for quite a while, and that bug with the music got in. As far as I can tell from the song samples posted on the site what I hear ingame if I select "new" music isn't NEARLY what it's supposed to actually be. The new music on the site is still way worse than the original, like they wanted the game to feel more NES than SNES, but ingame it's far less detailed with what feels like most of the track just completely missing, and it sounds like a cheap gameboy game. Even with original music it's still kinda buggy, with bad loops and restarts when you collect an item, and awful changed sound effects.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i think nicalis evading the question of why they decided to make night game wii exclusive after promising it for the pc as well is the most important single legitimate criticism. if it's for piracy, or lack of funds, why not just say that? it's not very good PR to ignore questions from your core fans / community. it's bad even as a business decision.

 

What else is there to say when forum goers know more about business decisions and PR than the dudes running their publishing companies...

hey, i run a business too, i'm not just a forum-goer -- in my experience running an indie game business, i think maintaining a good connection between fans and the people who make the games is crucial. i'd never evade a question from someone about one of my games or my decisions with my games.

[googoogjoob]

So I got a PM from DeceasedCrab which will probably help set things straight(er).

First and foremost; I never signed anything or agreed to anything that would expressly forbid me from talking about the temporary removal of my Cave Story Youtube video links. The only reason I ever remained quiet on the subject was out of courtesy to Nifflas.

The video links to LP Cave Story 1,2,4-6 went down in late July of 2008, a few months before the announcement of Cave Story Wii. At the time, I thought the idea that they were taking down access to the videos of a game they didn't own or have the rights to as absurd. I still think it's absurd. Through nifflas, I was able to contact Tyrone, who revealed the reason behind the video removal was supposedly because people were discussing "wares" in my video comment pages.

To this day, I have no idea what the hell he was talking about, and I don't really care. I'm usually pretty quick to remove any discussion of emulation and the like.

He adamantly refused to discuss why he supposedly thought he had the rights to the freeware version of Cave Story, and tried to get my phone number for a conference call. Really, it all sounded very sketchy. I managed to get him to retract his claim against my video links (YouTube was decidedly unhelpful), and I don't know if I'll ever know the reason he did it.

So, the videos were removed several months before anyone saw that they were removed, and not even DeceasedCrab got a straight answer as to why.

[Rumrusher]

wait so to be clear is nicalis is the publisher or the co-coder of the game?
or did he/they mooch off of pixel work and made Cave story wii into tmnt4 reshelled?
edit: after re reading the original post it seems to be the latter.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

nicalis is the name of the company, run by tyrone rodriguez

nifflas is the name of the developer who made night game, knytt stories, within a deep forest, etc.

nicklas is the real name of nifflas

so nicklas and nicalis are close in pronouncement, but are not the same thing. nifflas is the same thing as nicklas, and both of those are not nicalis, even though one of nicklas's/nifflas's games is being published on the wii by nicalis.

it's all a bit confusing, yeah

[mjau]

So, the videos were removed several months before anyone saw that they were removed,

Uh, i'm pretty sure people noticed straight away.  I remember finding out about it on Nifflas' forum long before Cave Story Wii was announced.  (People were bringing it up there because it had been revealed not too long before that Nicalis were working with Nifflas on Night Game, and the Youtube error message mentioned Nicalis.)

[googoogjoob]

So, the videos were removed several months before anyone saw that they were removed,

Uh, i'm pretty sure people noticed straight away.  I remember finding out about it on Nifflas' forum long before Cave Story Wii was announced.  (People were bringing it up there because it had been revealed not too long before that Nicalis were working with Nifflas on Night Game, and the Youtube error message mentioned Nicalis.)

man i was there too i'm a mod there