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[moi]

Tim Langdell had a lot of industry awards too, didn't he?

[gimymblert]

Tim Langdell had a lot of industry awards too, didn't he?

Stop trolling Tim Langdell, now his life is on the EDGE

[___]

Don't mind me.

http://harveyjames.livejournal.com/155086.html

I kinda wanted that Balrog shirt, or the polar star one... but I guess it will never be.

[eugeneius]

jwk5: I had to read the start of your post a few times, but then...

JackieJay: My point was that Paul had said that we shouldn't assume Nicalis are infallible just because Tyrone has had some prominent industry jobs, and the paragraph I quoted from you seemed to use this exact argument. I made a guess at why they haven't said anything, but then added that even if this is the case they could still be making a mistake (the bit you quoted).

Maybe a facepalm wasn't the best way to get this point across. In fact I realise it made me seem like a bit of a prick. Sorry about that.

[JackieJay]

My point was that Paul had said that we shouldn't assume Nicalis are infallible just because Tyrone has had some prominent industry jobs, and the paragraph I quoted from you seemed to use this exact argument. I made a guess at why they haven't said anything, but then added that even if this is the case they could still be making a mistake (the bit you quoted).

I don't think he said that, at least in the bit you quoted he didn't. Anyway that's not the point.

I don't think that's the case. If Nicalis itself can't justify the reason for making Night game a wii exclusive then it means they don't even know why they aren't releasing it for the PC. Specially given the fact that it would be much cheaper to produce.
After a small investigation on my part, I'm seriously starting to believe in my first theory, that they signed a exclusive agreement with Nintendo.
It would explain everything, and look at what Tyrone said when asked about why they decided to make it a wii exclusive:

"Unknown to probably most people who have seem screens or the initial trailer for NG is that we've actually approached Nintendo very early on. They've been great to work with and have been very helpful during the development of Night Game and Cave Story."

I think anyone can have different interpretations of what he said, but I think that, given the question, it almost looks like he saying that nintendo were being so nice to him that he decided to make it a wii exclusive. Business-wise, it would be a retarded decision so I think he's sort of implying that they signed a deal with Nintendo, without directly saying it. Pretty much 90% of the time a publisher signs one of those deals they also sign a NDA, which would explain why Nicalis never really justified their decision.

Of course this is just speculation.

[Dragonmaw]

It's pretty apparent that Nicalis is making some really poor business decisions to anyone with any sort of business sense.

For example, release an upgraded version of a freeware game on a different platform than the original. Exclusively. Chances are people that buy Cave Story Wii are the same people that played the original back in the day. This means they are (most likely) primarily PC users. So, instead of releasing an enhanced port on multiple systems, including the original system that houses most of the fans, you release it, exclusively, on a downloadable service on a console that is as far from the original as you can possibly get. That's a bad business decision through and through. Not only that, but the game was released in an incredibly buggy and insulting state. The translation is ten times as terrible as the Aeon Genesis one and the new music tracks don't play right and (apparently) are downright terrible.

I would certainly say that Paul has enough experience to make a judgement on a business decision. He's an entrepreneur that has sold his game and gone through all the rigamarole that accompanies it. Honestly, I'd trust his opinion far over that of Nicalis, who has zero experience making and selling his own game before Cave Story Wii and Night Game.

Also, in regards to exclusives, I've never seen a developer deny that they signed an agreement to make something an exclusive, if it is so. Having had plenty of experience with NDA and information embargoes myself, that does not sound anything like a modus operandi of Nintendo. If he did sign an exclusivity agreement, it's most likely not covered under an NDA. He's just withholding the information.

Oh, and there's plenty of market for PC downloadable games. Release it on the major services (Steam, Impulse, GamersGate) and that's sales right there. Steam and Impulse are extremely friendly in promotion of indie titles, and the others aren't too shabby either.

[William Broom]

It's pretty apparent that Nicalis is making some really poor business decisions to anyone with any sort of business sense.

For example, release an upgraded version of a freeware game on a different platform than the original. Exclusively. Chances are people that buy Cave Story Wii are the same people that played the original back in the day. This means they are (most likely) primarily PC users. So, instead of releasing an enhanced port on multiple systems, including the original system that houses most of the fans, you release it, exclusively, on a downloadable service on a console that is as far from the original as you can possibly get. That's a bad business decision through and through.

Not necessarily. For a start, you should consider that even though it was made for PC, Cave Story feels like a very console-y game. If you're trying to attract new customers rather than just sell to the hardcore fans, then I would imagine you would find more such customers on WiiWare rather than on PC. Wii owners are more likely to be interested in Japanese, SNES-style retro games, whereas PC gamers favour western games. Outside the indie community, a lot of PC gamers would probably look at Cave Story as 'some japcrap'.

Another reason might be that on the PC, Nicalis' Cave Story is more directly in competition with the freeware version. Putting it exclusively on a separate console gives the impression that it's a different game, that it has something worth paying for over and above the freeware version. I wouldn't be surprised if a PC version of CS not only did poorly against its freeware rival, but actually hurt sales on the Wii as well by highlighting the fact that, essentially, you are paying for a game you can get legally for free.

[JackieJay]

It's pretty apparent that Nicalis is making some really poor business decisions to anyone with any sort of business sense.

For example, release an upgraded version of a freeware game on a different platform than the original. Exclusively. Chances are people that buy Cave Story Wii are the same people that played the original back in the day. This means they are (most likely) primarily PC users. So, instead of releasing an enhanced port on multiple systems, including the original system that houses most of the fans, you release it, exclusively, on a downloadable service on a console that is as far from the original as you can possibly get. That's a bad business decision through and through. Not only that, but the game was released in an incredibly buggy and insulting state. The translation is ten times as terrible as the Aeon Genesis one and the new music tracks don't play wright and (apparently) are downright terrible.

I would certainly say that Paul has enough experience to make a judgement on a business decision. He's an entrepreneur that has sold his game and gone through all the rigamarole that accompanies it. Honestly, I'd trust his opinion far over that of Nicalis, who has zero experience making and selling his own game before Cave Story Wii and Night Game.

Also, in regards to exclusives, I've never seen a developer deny that they signed an agreement to make something an exclusive, if it is so. Having had plenty of experience with NDA and information embargoes myself, that does not sound anything like a modus operandi of Nintendo. If he did sign an exclusivity agreement, it's most likely not covered under an NDA. He's just withholding the information.

Oh, and there's plenty of market for PC downloadable games. Release it on the major services (Steam, Impulse, GamersGate) and that's sales right there. Steam and Impulse are extremely friendly in promotion of indie titles, and the others aren't too shabby either.

I had this fucking huge post answering most of what you wrote, but I accidentally closed down my browser so I'll just talk about how awesome your avatar is. And try to remember what I wrote.

Cave story is a remake. What's the point of re releasing the same game for the same platform ? In addition that game was originally free. Your claim that most people who bought Cave Story for the wii are the same who played the same pc freeware game over and over, I highly doubt that, for many reasons that I wont explain again. The reason why they did it wii only was probably because they couldn't get it on the xbla, so the wiiware was the best option remaining. that's just a wild guess.

I have Cave Story for the wii and it's definitely not broken and the translation is much better in some aspects. The music (which is great but imo doesn't fit the game very well because I'm used to the old soundtrack) plays exactly like you'd expect it to, there are a couple of problems regarding with the old music but that's about the only issue I ran into.Overall it's a lot better than the original, in my opinion.

So you'd rather trust Paul who only did and published a tower defence game over Tyrone who (apparently) have at least 15 years in the industry and was working in a few developers and publishers while he was probably in elementary school ? Fuck, I can believe Paul is a great dude and friend but you're pushing things waaaay too far, no ?

now, on exclusives: I never saw nicalis deny it either. Nor I ever heard of a publisher proudly saying "we signed a lucrative deal to release our game only for the Z console.For the owners of the others consoles, i'm sorry but money is more important to us than you are." As in, it might not be legal issue. More like they dont wanna be called sell outs. or something.

There is a lot of room for downloadable games on the PC, I agree. There's also a lot of room for them in the xbla/xblig and wiiware. Perhaps even more.

[battlerager]

who only did and published a tower defence game

[salade]

It's pretty apparent that Nicalis is making some really poor business decisions to anyone with any sort of business sense.

Anyone with any sort of "business sense" would realize that something can't be proven by a single line of logic. While releasing the port on the PC could generate more sales, it brings it own problems. Would pixel agree to it? Are the updates really worth twelve dolors on the PC? If not, is the Wii version worth it if the PC version is cheaper? If the prices are lowered for both, are the extra sales worth it? What about piracy? How much would it cost to upgrade both the ported version and the original version (keep in mind that the original uses DirectX, while the Wii version obviously doesn't)?

I won't pretend to actually know if any of these affected Nicalis's decision, but less plausible to believe that Nicalis made a blind buisness decision and ignored all of that rather than believing they gave it some thought.

[JackieJay]

At least it was the only game I found in his site. And I just found out he used game maker to make it.

[MaloEspada]

Anyone with any sort of "business sense" would realize that something can't be proven by a single line of logic. While releasing the port on the PC could generate more sales, it brings it own problems. Would pixel agree to it? Are the updates really worth twelve dolors on the PC?

If they are worth on Wii, why not on PC?

If not, is the Wii version worth it if the PC version is cheaper? If the prices are lowered for both, are the extra sales worth it? What about piracy? How much would it cost to upgrade both the ported version and the original version (keep in mind that the original uses DirectX, while the Wii version obviously doesn't)?

There is as much piracy on Wii as there is on PC. I saw a friend of mine playing the Wii version on his PC, like, today. Also there are good systems for PC that deal very well with piracy (Steam, for example).

I think it would go like this:
It would be a REMAKE of the game. Music, sound, added modes and possibly extra stages/bosses. Like an enhanced port/remake. Then it would be worth 10$ or 12$.

What Nicalis did up til now is deliver a game that is clearly worse quality-wise in comparison with the original.

[JackieJay]

"If they are worth on Wii, why not on PC?"
Mostly because there is already a free version on the PC, which some people claim it's even better. Mostly.

"There are as much piracy on the wii as there is on the PC"
You can't be serious.

"It would be a REMAKE of the game. Music, sound, added modes and possibly extra stages/bosses. Like an enhanced port/remake. Then it would be worth 10$ or 12$."
That's Cave Story for the wiiware in a nutshell.

"What Nicalis did up til now is deliver a game that is clearly worse quality-wise in comparison with the original."

Clearly ? I for one would rather prefer the new version, even with the new music on. Which isn't that bad, specially since most of it sound like a VST version of the older soundtrack.

[Valter]

I think I'm willing to cut Nicalis' business sense some slack, considering that Cave Story is currently the number one title on WiiWare.

[MaloEspada]

Clearly ? I for one would rather prefer the new version, even with the new music on. Which isn't that bad, specially since most of it sound like a VST version of the older soundtrack.

Up til now it's really worse

-music doesnt work properly; same goes for sfx
-"worse translation" and a bunch of typos/mistakes
-game breaking bugs
-retarded choices (all the unlocked modes etc)

Unless BETTER GRAPHICS = BETTER GAME for you

[JackieJay]

Up til now it's really worse

You either don't have an idea on how bad the situation is for the PC, or you judge the piracy on the Wii based on seeing your friend playing the wii version on the pc, which btw is kinda odd since either he was using a wii emulator (which as far as I know, dont exist), or you've been seeing things.


Game breaking bugs ? Never came across a single one, except for the problems with the old soundtrack which I have turned off. Which isn't a game breaking bug, I think.

Worst translation ? Except for the "Huzzah" part, most of the differences on the translations are small corrections of what was previously done.

Retarded Choices? Be more specific would help.

Music and SFX dont work properly? I dont have any problems with the sfx, the only problems I have with the music happen when I have the old soundtrack turned on, but even then those problems are barely noticeable.


In addition, all the reviews I read seem to be rather favorable, to say the least:

http://www.gamespot.com/wii/adventure/cavestory/review.html?mode=web&tag=scoresummary;critic-score

http://wiiware.nintendolife.com/reviews/2010/03/cave_story

[deathtotheweird]

You don't have them so no one else does? OK.

JackieJay you sure are dedicated to this thread. Christ.

[MaloEspada]

You either don't have an idea on how bad the situation is for the PC, or you judge the piracy on the Wii based on seeing your friend playing the wii version on the pc, which btw is kinda odd since either he was using a wii emulator (which as far as I know, dont exist), or you've been seeing things.

Game breaking bugs ? Never came across a single one, except for the problems with the old soundtrack which I have turned off. Which isn't a game breaking bug, I think.

Worst translation ? Except for the "Huzzah" part, most of the differences on the translations are small corrections of what was previously done.

Retarded Choices? Be more specific would help.

Music and SFX dont work properly? I dont have any problems with the sfx, the only problems I have with the music happen when I have the old soundtrack turned on, but even then those problems are barely noticeable.

There IS an Wii emulator and it plays most games fine. It plays Cave Story Wii fine, just to make it clear.

Also lot of people in GameFAQs, neogaf and Nicalis forums reported glitches with the map item and with areas surrounding Outer Wall. It seems like some people entered a door and the screen turned black. And it constantly happened, preventing the player from progressing.

I dunno but someone said that while Nicalis' translation is more accurate, it's not more pleasant to read. I think it was Souliard's post in the Cave Story thread but i'm not sure. The Aeon Genesis translation was a lot better but the new translation makes some parts of the story clearer, indeed.

When you boot the game for the first time, there is STORY mode, CURLY BRACE, Boss Rush and Sanctuary bla bla. If you are a new player, you can get a bunch of spoilers right up there. It would make more sense if these other modes aside from Story were unlocked after playing Story mode.

Some SFX are REALLY LOUD (text, experience triangle things, footsteps). The old soundtrack doesnt loop properly and has balancing problems. The new one has missing instruments. Come ooooon.

[Cthulhu32]

Don't mind me.

http://harveyjames.livejournal.com/155086.html

I kinda wanted that Balrog shirt, or the polar star one... but I guess it will never be.

Any of those would have been amazing, its really too bad they said no to all of them.

[PKBT]

Don't mind me.

http://harveyjames.livejournal.com/155086.html

I kinda wanted that Balrog shirt, or the polar star one... but I guess it will never be.

Any of those would have been amazing, its really too bad they said no to all of them.

I would kill for a t-shirt like that. On the contrary, we could always make use of custom orders. Get some!
Let's go.