next »

[thewojnartist]

I was thinking the other day that some truly classic games were often in unique and fun sub-genres that aren't made enough now adays, and I was thinking it might be good to list and look at these sub-genres and see why they are good and why they are underused.


Genre: 3D Gold Item Collecting

Examples: Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey-Kong 64. Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2

Description: Not to be confused with simple "mission" games (which often have mindless mini-games scattered in their worlds instead of actual level design), these often had open worlds in which there were scattered "Gold Items" which were needed to proceed in a "home world" and reach more worlds.

[Montoli]

Arguably, that's not really a genre, so much as a mechanic.  My basis for this claim is that you could stick it into almost any genre as an unlock mechanism and have it work.  I. E. you could have a platformer (mario) where you have to collect stars to move forward.  Or you could put it in a racing game where you have to collect things on the track to move unlock new levels.  (F-Zero FX I think?)  Or you could make a RTS where you have to collect things on the map to unlock new levels/things.  (Starctaft 2 with the alien tech.)

Almost by definition, if enough things have been made around an idea to have it become a genre, then it is getting at least SOME attention.  There are some games that I wish had started their own genres though.  Do those count?  I like to think of them as proto-genres.  You could totally expand on their ideas and make more games like them, but for some reason they never took off.

Some examples:

Psychic Force 2013, which by rights, should have inaugurated a genre of fully 2d, projectile-based fighting games.  (2d as in, you have complete freedom over a plane, instead of being tied to the ground, and only leaving it when you jump.)

WindJammers, which should have spawned more frisbee themed fight games.  It was basically pong with special moves, and I still think that there is a lot of potential there, but somehow there were never any more games like it.

[SirNiko]

I want more totally seamless games. No zone swaps, loading screens, fade-outs or cutscenes. I want to move continuously from the start to the end and see every blade of grass, cobblestone and brick.

Star Fox Adventures on the GCN was a great example, even if they did break between the ground and flying segments.

[PleasingFungus]

WindJammers, which should have spawned more frisbee themed fight games.  It was basically pong with special moves, and I still think that there is a lot of potential there, but somehow there were never any more games like it.

...Discs of Tron?

[sjakaus]

Long-ranged first person shooters.
Like ARMA, but without the focus on being super realistic.

Also, things like neptune's pride. Long-form strategy.

[s0]

Also, things like neptune's pride. Long-form strategy.

There's more than enough of that.

[Montoli]

WindJammers, which should have spawned more frisbee themed fight games.  It was basically pong with special moves, and I still think that there is a lot of potential there, but somehow there were never any more games like it.

...Discs of Tron?

Touche.

Ok, somehow there were never ENOUGH more games like it.

[sodap]

the last express is a game that was very unique and no other game followed it, ever. It was just a train where things happened wether you were there to see them or not. You could see everything that happened in the train if you were in the right place at the right time, but of course more than one thing could happen at the same time, in differents points of space... so you could go back in time if you didnt like something or missed something that you could have changed. Basically you had a rewind button and could change the past (changing the future as well). But you dont find many games where things actually happen in the game world, and affect the course of the game wether you are there to see them or not.

also, it was a great game on its own but didnt get too much attention, due to poor marketing and distribution.

[Muz]

I can't really think of many games that don't get enough attention. As with the free market system, if a genre is good, it'll get a lot of attention. If it's something weird like Viva Pinata, it gets less.

I'd like to see more interactive fiction, though. As in games that react to anything you do. People have a tendency to call "adventure" games "interactive fiction", but they're not the same. Adventure games give you a puzzle to solve and force you to do it their way, telling you that it's a syntax error and stuff.

True interactive fiction would let you do whatever you feel like doing and tell you how the world responds. In an adventure game, you can't pick up the background stuff or do other things that aren't relevant. In a real IF one, you should be able to. The big problem is that they're so short, so I'd love to see more of them. Hopefully even a graphical one too.

[sjakaus]

Also, things like neptune's pride. Long-form strategy.

There's more than enough of that.

What other real time strategy games are that slow?

[Pishtaco]

Also, things like neptune's pride. Long-form strategy.

There's more than enough of that.

What other real time strategy games are that slow?

Anything by Paradox.

[Muz]

Also, things like neptune's pride. Long-form strategy.

There's more than enough of that.

What other real time strategy games are that slow?

I haven't played Neptune's Pride, but it looks similar to many other browser games. Like Cyber Nations and Supremacy 1914. And plenty of others which I stopped playing.

[sjakaus]

Also, things like neptune's pride. Long-form strategy.

There's more than enough of that.

What other real time strategy games are that slow?

Anything by Paradox.

Also, things like neptune's pride. Long-form strategy.

There's more than enough of that.

What other real time strategy games are that slow?

I haven't played Neptune's Pride, but it looks similar to many other browser games. Like Cyber Nations and Supremacy 1914. And plenty of others which I stopped playing.

Those are both complicated, by the looks of it.

Neptune's pride is nice because the rule are so simple. It's a lot less complex than a lot of board games actually, so it ends up feeling like one.

[s0]

Also, things like neptune's pride. Long-form strategy.

There's more than enough of that.

What other real time strategy games are that slow?

I haven't played Neptune's Pride, but it looks similar to many other browser games. Like Cyber Nations and Supremacy 1914. And plenty of others which I stopped playing.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Those MMO browser strategy things are a dime a dozen. I guess Neptune's Pride is a little different it operates on a smaller and is split up in individual "rounds" instead of being persistent-world-based, but it's still very closely related.

[sjakaus]

Also, things like neptune's pride. Long-form strategy.

There's more than enough of that.

What other real time strategy games are that slow?

I haven't played Neptune's Pride, but it looks similar to many other browser games. Like Cyber Nations and Supremacy 1914. And plenty of others which I stopped playing.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Those MMO browser strategy things are a dime a dozen. I guess Neptune's Pride is a little different it operates on a smaller and is split up in individual "rounds" instead of being persistent-world-based, but it's still very closely related.

The problem with persistent ones is that it becomes an mmo with awful graphics and barely any gameplay.

And there are far too many of those.

I haven't found anything else like neptune's pride though, and I've searched. The only thing even close to it is risk, and that's filled with die rolls and less diplomacy.

[dontkickpenguins]

I can't think of any MMO economy games. The only one I can think of is EVE with it's player based market. That would be a good genre.

[William Broom]

True interactive fiction would let you do whatever you feel like doing and tell you how the world responds. In an adventure game, you can't pick up the background stuff or do other things that aren't relevant. In a real IF one, you should be able to.

I'm just wondering, what makes you say this? I don't see why you should be able to pick up every item in an IF game any more than you should be able to do so in any other genre.

[Strom]

First Person Fighters (only ones I know about are zeno clash and mirrors edge).

Games like minecraft.

[Muz]

Those are both complicated, by the looks of it.

Neptune's pride is nice because the rule are so simple. It's a lot less complex than a lot of board games actually, so it ends up feeling like one.

Cyber Nations is not complicated at all... it takes only about 5 hours to truly master the game mechanics, and a bit of experience to know how to war well. But because of its simplicity, anyone can pick it up and most of the game is focused entirely around inter-alliance affairs.

I can't think of any MMO economy games. The only one I can think of is EVE with it's player based market. That would be a good genre.

I've seen a few on Facebook, and a few other player based markets, but most of them are poor. I'd love to see a proper economy game.

True interactive fiction would let you do whatever you feel like doing and tell you how the world responds. In an adventure game, you can't pick up the background stuff or do other things that aren't relevant. In a real IF one, you should be able to.

I'm just wondering, what makes you say this? I don't see why you should be able to pick up every item in an IF game any more than you should be able to do so in any other genre.

It's not really being able to pick up every item... it's more of a game where you get to interact with the world. I'm sure we've all come with situations like:
"There is a glass of hot water. You are thirsty. There is a fridge here."
"> Drink water"
"The water is too hot."
"> Open fridge"
"The fridge is not a container!"
"> Take ice from fridge"
"What ice?"
"> Put glass in fridge"
"You cool down the drink and drink it. You do not die! +1 score!"

A good IF game would let you blow the glass, get ice, etc. It's not so much about finding the right solution to win, but exploring and interacting with the world. You sacrifice the length of the game for some depth. And it's more fun to find out that you could've completed the puzzle in many other different, but logical ways. You may not really have to pick up everything, but the game shouldn't toss you a "syntax not found".

[Paint by Numbers]

But an IF game would be incomprehensibly difficult to program if it was supposed to include every reaction to your actions that is possible in the real world. I think that you're saying that a "true IF" game would just be a standard IF game with more things to do, which is somewhat silly, because adding in as many proper reactions as practical is a very common goal in IF. It's not that you have this new genre that you're talking about, just that normal IF isn't good enough at this point.

Edit: Just realized I needed content. I want to see more Icebergvanias! Technically, nobody has really pulled off a full-on icebergvania before, although several games have come close. For those who don't know what they are, icebergvanias are games* with vast amounts of hidden content. No, more than that. No, more than that. There would be enough secrets and strange things to find that it would take years and years to discover everything, even more so than games that already do take years to figure out. Many roguelikes, the most predominant being Nethack, could be considered almost-Icebergvanias with the sheer amount of complex reactions they contain (but are not the "ideal" icebergvania because their levels aren't prefabricated). La Mulana and a couple of other games also approach icebergvania, but no game has really reached the insane level of what the ideal icebergvania would have.


*The term "icebergvania" doesn't imply any genre, but action/adventure platformer would probably be the best genre suited to it.