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[Player 3]

Took a Java class in my freshman year. It got me into the advanced programming field instead of stuff like Flash. Had the best grade in there too, I did. It's a wonder how I never learned BASIC first.

The best solution I can think of is learn and perform the examples a programming book of any language tells you. You could find some at your local library (glad I found some ActionScript 3 ones there) or at a thrift store. There's bound to be something there.

Being another of an artsy guy, it's hard to grasp something like C++ after you go through enough easy things and not enough of the hard ones.

Man, I wish high schools offered more programming classes.

[bvanevery]

I think programming is significantly more difficult than it used to be.  When I started, a computer fit into 48K.  You could buy a book that told you what every single memory address actually did, and change what was going on using PEEKs and POKEs to memory addresses.  It may have been grungy and low level, but there was a hard limit to the amount of complexity and crap that could be pulled in.  Now, it's just overwhelming the amount of stuff that is attached to any of the major programming language universes.  The skill of cutting through the crap becomes important.

I think you have to not take things too seriously, and not treat APIs (particularly Microsoft APIs) with any respect.  Just keep in mind that the people designing your tools are often jerks.  If you RTFM a lot and still don't get it, just remember that it's a failing of all those contractor jerks who are writing shoddy documentation and test suites, not you.  They aren't doing it for quality, they're doing it so that they can take their next ski trip in the Cascades.  It's not that different from navigating a government bureaucracy, which most people assume are a bunch of jerks, with the rare shining exception or two.

I have an iPod developing friend who says the Apple universe is a lot better, although personally I'm deeply cynical and have my doubts.  I can assure you that the Microsoft and Linux universes are equally bad and will spend a lot of time frustrating you.

[nikki]

That reminds me of this video i saw once, it's Stanford's own little computer language (Karel) and really simple, so you arent as lost in the gigantic syntax of a new language.

its especcialy geared to new programmers and very educational. And it oozes you into JAVA

link1
link2
link3

[simono]

I started with QBasic, like so many it seems.

I got better by being forced to solve problems & dealing with concepts I didn't understand at the time. Emphasize on *forced*. You need a tutor or a job (lol, not the best way to learn) that demands that you finish what is asked of you.

my 2cents

[Average Software]

Apple II BASIC, back when you could get cool magazines full of games and stuff to type in.  It was a wonderful thing to learn from, because you could tweak the stuff in the magazines to improve, or more often break it.

It shocks me these days how far we've regressed, where so few computers even come with any kind of development kit.  No wonder so many people have trouble learning this stuff.

[InfiniteStateMachine]

Apple II BASIC, back when you could get cool magazines full of games and stuff to type in.  It was a wonderful thing to learn from, because you could tweak the stuff in the magazines to improve, or more often break it.

It shocks me these days how far we've regressed, where so few computers even come with any kind of development kit.  No wonder so many people have trouble learning this stuff.

Unfortunately that is about 5 years before my time but I read about magazines like these (mainly in Masters of Doom) and am perplexed that these magazines dont still exist. They would make a great read.

[bvanevery]

It shocks me these days how far we've regressed, where so few computers even come with any kind of development kit.  No wonder so many people have trouble learning this stuff.

Indeed, when there's only 2 pieces of documentation that come with your computer, a User Guide and a Programming Guide, you tend to read them both.

Magazines were fine and all, but I don't think it's bad that they've been replaced by the entire internet.  I never had anyone to talk to when I was learning the Atari 800, I just plodded away like a good little introvert.  If I had gotten some help, I think my programming skills would have been solidified at a much earlier age, instead of waiting pretty much until I got to college.  Coulda been some gazillionaire household name by now, LOL.  Don't regret the internet.

[Muz]

Heh, I got a BASIC book when I was 5 as a birthday gift. It didn't really help much. Learned VB, HTML, and those game maker products just from the Internet.

I learned C and C++ from uni.. though it was a horrible class that didn't teach me things like memory management. Actually learned to use it properly after transferring schools and (nearly) failing a few programming classes.

IMO, once you pick up the basics, the best intermediate level way to learn is open source. Open up a game, try to understand it, and hack it to do something you think would be cool. You'll learn why the program is designed in certain ways and you'll learn better coding techniques and why they work.


Honestly, the easiest way to start learn a programming language is the same way as learning a normal language. You stop thinking if you could, which is the best, and just go and learn one that you like. I've seen teenagers sit around for years wondering which language is the best to learn. Yet a baby learns his native language and many others in just a few years, no matter how complex it is. It's not that babies are smarter than adults, it's just that they just do it. You've grasped more advanced concepts and it's easier to learn a programming language in less time.

Programming languages are not much harder than normal languages. It just takes a lot of starting effort and a lot of practice to get them.

[iffi]

That reminds me of this video i saw once, it's Stanford's own little computer language (Karel) and really simple, so you arent as lost in the gigantic syntax of a new language.

its especcialy geared to new programmers and very educational. And it oozes you into JAVA

link1
link2
link3

That's actually what my CS teacher used to teach us programming concepts! I have to say it was really fun and taught me a lot, though it still helps to do some extra studying to understand more closely what is actually happening.

[antymattar]

You have a talent. I personally suck at making music on the pc. I just don't know how to work with ANY music program. Also, I have the best teacher in the world(And he's free!)!

[Guillaume]

I learned in middle school- I had a programmable calculator (TI-82) on which I copied games found on the internet line-by-line, and then I got tired of copying code and decided to write my own. God, the amount of class-time I spent on that thing- in retrospect, I wonder why some of my teachers never told me to put my calculator away when it clearly wasn't the class for it 

Then in high-school, I moved on to learn C, Python, C++, etc., and then went to college.

I agree with some of the opinions in this topic that programming is not a natural "human" thing to do, and that a lot of people, even though they can learn programming, won't have that "programming" mindset that makes it so easy and natural for a lot of us here.

[bvanevery]

Programming is a human thing to do.  Mankind has been designing new technologies ever since the Stone Age, and if you've ever tried to recreate Stone Age technologies yourself while on a camping trip, you'll realize how basic and fundamental it is to our species.  However, not all human beings are going to be good at it.  Social manipulation is also a human thing to do, and generations upon generations of humans have prospered by manipulating others, rather than working with tools directly themselves.  I believe the degree to which one is good at these things is partly genetic. 

[Absurdist]

I went from BASIC to Java to C#, not including languages that I skimmed for a specific project.

Now, it's just overwhelming the amount of stuff that is attached to any of the major programming language universes.  The skill of cutting through the crap becomes important.

This. Programming is very overwhelming if you don't focus on what's important. Once you learn the core features of a language, it is much less difficult to learn additional languages and more esoteric features.

[InfiniteStateMachine]

It shocks me these days how far we've regressed, where so few computers even come with any kind of development kit.  No wonder so many people have trouble learning this stuff.

Indeed, when there's only 2 pieces of documentation that come with your computer, a User Guide and a Programming Guide, you tend to read them both.

Magazines were fine and all, but I don't think it's bad that they've been replaced by the entire internet.  I never had anyone to talk to when I was learning the Atari 800, I just plodded away like a good little introvert.  If I had gotten some help, I think my programming skills would have been solidified at a much earlier age, instead of waiting pretty much until I got to college.  Coulda been some gazillionaire household name by now, LOL.  Don't regret the internet.

glad the internet is here, but it feels like there isnt something on the internet that replaces these magazine type articles. It would be cool to see a site that puts up some game code every few months which people can download, modify, and discuss. Maybe there is a site like that, I just dont know of it.

[Nitromatic]

5 years old learning, and heck do I know things about Game Maker? No.

I just know little bit of GML, so.. Well, I can still create good engines with my skills.

[bvanevery]

It would be cool to see a site that puts up some game code every few months which people can download, modify, and discuss. Maybe there is a site like that, I just dont know of it.

Well lots of people's blogs have the "download and discuss" aspect.  How much modification are you really expecting?  Seems like if you want stickiness to your mods, then the entire open source community is at your disposal, nothing stopping you.  If you don't want stickiness, if you just like to tinker with random bits of code, then you could make use of anyone's blog that way.  Seems like the missing ingredient would be volume of common readership.  Can't really help you on that one.  There just isn't going to be 1 canonical magazine for tinkering with stuff anymore, that era is gone.  Only way I could see getting it back, is if you picked 1 very specific platform or framework, and stuck with it in that community, tinkering along with whoever has the impulse.  Maybe the retro Atari 2600 programmers for instance, the guys who make new cartridges?  But you could do it in any community with any platform, the choice is entirely up to you.

I think you can do what you want, but you have to be the one to start doing it.

[bateleur]

I think you can do what you want, but you have to be the one to start doing it.

The community here seems ideal for it actually. If you picked Flash, GameMaker or some decent cross-platform C++ setup you should find enough interested people to make it work.

[iffi]

I learned in middle school- I had a programmable calculator (TI-82) on which I copied games found on the internet line-by-line, and then I got tired of copying code and decided to write my own. God, the amount of class-time I spent on that thing- in retrospect, I wonder why some of my teachers never told me to put my calculator away when it clearly wasn't the class for it 

That reminds me that the first programming I did was on a TI-82, either in late elementary school or early middle school. Most of my programs were pretty simple, but it was sure fun making things such as a quadratic equation solver (which was bugged at first, unfortunately to my brother who was using it ).

[Taiko]

I learned in middle school- I had a programmable calculator (TI-82) on which I copied games found on the internet line-by-line, and then I got tired of copying code and decided to write my own. God, the amount of class-time I spent on that thing- in retrospect, I wonder why some of my teachers never told me to put my calculator away when it clearly wasn't the class for it 

That reminds me that the first programming I did was on a TI-82, either in late elementary school or early middle school. Most of my programs were pretty simple, but it was sure fun making things such as a quadratic equation solver (which was bugged at first, unfortunately to my brother who was using it ).

I started off with my TI-83+.  My first game was actually a text based adventure where you raised sheep.  But at that point I didn't really know what I was doing yet.

My first real programming experience was building GUIs in Matlab.  Kind of a strange language to learn on.  I still didn't really "get it", though, not until I got into my first programming course in college which was taught using Python.

I found structured lectures really helpful.  That was where I learned all the math-y stuff like O(n) and algorithms.  Of course, lectures only go so far.  The only real way to learn programming is through doing it.

[Swattkidd]

You say you dont understand programming but are making a Turn based Strategy game. That is your problem. Start small, really small, as in not a game. Learn to program before you make games, it helps.