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TIGSource ForumsCommunityJams & EventsCompetitionsVersus (Moderator: Melly)Guardian Soul
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2011, 08:03:27 PM »

Wouldn't it be easy for your other player to dodge, since they can see everything you're doing?  Concerned
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Melly
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2011, 08:09:50 PM »

Yes, that is something I thought of and am looking into.

Generally, all boss attacks have some telegraphing. This is to maintain the traditional boss fight feel. Over the intertubes, the boss UI isn't visible to the hero player, so the telegraphing is something to allow him to even react to the attacks, depending on what they are. Generally it won't be very delayed and there will be a tendency of boss attacks that can come very quickly.

Offline, I'm thinking of removing pretty much all telegraphing, and making bosses in general faster. The boss' UI will be all the telegraphing needed for the hero player to be able to avoid attacks if he's fast enough. Of course, this will require testing to be balanced properly.
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2011, 11:39:08 PM »

This sounds wicked! I love that mockup too, it has a nice, fresh, digimon-like look to it.
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2011, 11:54:02 PM »

Mockup looks sexy, I hope you find someone to realize the game the way you're picturing it.  Any reason why you wouldn't take a crack at it yourself?  I'm guessing the time limitation?

Thumbs up for radial controls, it would make it perfect for console if you decide to brave an XNA port post-compo.
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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2011, 12:29:22 AM »

Mockup looks sexy, I hope you find someone to realize the game the way you're picturing it.  Any reason why you wouldn't take a crack at it yourself?  I'm guessing the time limitation?

Two reasons. Time limitation, and I have two other projects I don't want to completely neglect while I'm working on this. It's insane, I know, especially since me and hard work have felt like antithesis for far too long, and humans are notoriously shitty at fighting inertia. Still, I'm becoming increasingly and painfully aware that I have no choice in the matter anyway, so expect a lot more production coming from me this year.

Thumbs up for radial controls, it would make it perfect for console if you decide to brave an XNA port post-compo.

I'm not sure gamepad controls would allow the agility I think is required for the boss player to feel like he's more than a sllugish elephant trying to swat a cafeine addicted wasp. Mostly aiming the cursor where you want it to be for the attack's starting point would probably be a lot slower without making it unmanageable.

I also know jack shit of XNA so if that port were to ever come there'd need to be some huge incentive. Like Microsoft giving me an opportunity to publish an improved version of the game on XBLA. Then I'm all for learning, though I imagine I'd learn C++ for that (oh, how I miss messing with pointers and very specific syntax [/sarcasm]).


I might post a little painted comic with the details of the simple backstory I have for this. It won't take you to a realm of intrigue and plot twists, but I'm hoping it's just charming enough to give a good feel and a reason to go through it for more than the novelty or the opportunity to be the most jackass boss fight your best friend has ever fought, and we all know that's the biggest draw here.

Also I'm having a single-player mode, but that's the very last on the list. This is a multiplayer compo. Still I like the idea of making AI's for these guys that can show you how it's done. Because the idea of willingly making pushover bosses without a hint of satire is alien to my brain. Konjak start taking notes, I wanna see some actual boss challenge come Noitu Love 3.
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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2011, 04:23:30 AM »

I also know jack shit of XNA so if that port were to ever come there'd need to be some huge incentive. Like Microsoft giving me an opportunity to publish an improved version of the game on XBLA. Then I'm all for learning, though I imagine I'd learn C++ for that (oh, how I miss messing with pointers and very specific syntax [/sarcasm]).
No no, luckily not! XNA is a C# library. I don't know what you like, but I found C# to be very resonable. (Actually it's one of my favourite languages.)
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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2011, 04:44:09 AM »

I'm not normally a fan of mouse control for characters, but it might work in this case. It will be interesting to play it and see how it feels.
Also really liked the mockups, I was especially attracted to that bottom GUI with the health bars, I hope that you will keep it for the actual game (though I know that probably would not happen)...

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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2011, 05:43:31 AM »

Still not decided on how the GUI in general will look, but it's likely it won't change much. It's a fairly functional design.
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2011, 06:13:31 AM »

I love action platformers, and the radial menus look fantastic. How could a game like this possibly go wrong? (hint: it couldn't)

I wish you the best of luck in finding the perfect artist(s), musician(s), and finishing this game! Although I must say using 8 attacks for every boss (like in the mockup) for 4 boss could be quite a lot of work to do. Even if the number of bosses/attacks would turn out to be less I would very much like to play this.   CoffeeHand Thumbs Up Right
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2011, 06:29:46 AM »

I think the bosses require some complexity and variety to make them interesting to use and get good at. 4 bosses is my goal, but I may just end up with less than that.
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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2011, 03:06:44 PM »

Hello!

Melly, I love your mockup art D:

You've been talking a lot about the bosses; what about the 'player' character? What kind of abilities will he (or she; goddamn pronouns) get? Of course, it's a slightly less thrilling (and less difficult) topic since the player's control scheme is the more commonly seen one :3

On the topic of radial menus and the mockups thus far: What about bosses who can do things to the environment? The best (only) example I can think of is a boss who can move along the screen, forcing a scroll for the player to follow, but will everything step from the boss entity?

And my last interrogation topic: What will the boss player do while his actions are being carried out? Wait, watch, and plan for the next one? Can actions be set up while the previous one is going on? Can they be interrupted?

INQUIRING MINDS MUST KNOW but seriously why do I have to ask so many questions ._.

~

Melly, this looks rad :3 I look forward to this. I think that maybe you will end up with more interesting bosses than most games have, too.

Finally: I might try throwing some music at you, but don't you dare rely on me for music.
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2011, 04:11:48 PM »

You could add an option for offline play that hides your cursor while selecting an attack, for people that know what the attacks are and don't want to telegraph them as much.
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2011, 04:33:40 PM »

Hello!

Melly, I love your mockup art D:

Yay! Why sadface though?

You've been talking a lot about the bosses; what about the 'player' character? What kind of abilities will he (or she; goddamn pronouns) get? Of course, it's a slightly less thrilling (and less difficult) topic since the player's control scheme is the more commonly seen one :3

I'll be elaborating on the hero player's controls sometime in the future. With pictures.

Though I did mention that he'll get special abilities from downed bosses, because I haven't been watching megaman challenge gameplay videos enough.

On the topic of radial menus and the mockups thus far: What about bosses who can do things to the environment? The best (only) example I can think of is a boss who can move along the screen, forcing a scroll for the player to follow, but will everything step from the boss entity?

I'll decide the best way to control each boss's ability. The one I showed is the simplest one, but it's likely each attack with have a slightly unique control to be issued, all in the spirit of making it both intuitive and fast.

Yeah, I'm not going to constrain myself to bosses that can't do more than move and attack. I have an idea for a boss that can alter the environment significantly around itself. That should be a little unique to design.

Waht do you mean with "but will everything step from the boss entity"?

And my last interrogation topic: What will the boss player do while his actions are being carried out? Wait, watch, and plan for the next one? Can actions be set up while the previous one is going on? Can they be interrupted?

Like I mentioned previously, after the action has been issued the cursor is freed for the player to queue the next attacks in sequence, the boss entity following through with them as fast as it's able.

Yes, actions can be interrupted. Most by the boss player, but I have ideas for some that the hero player can also stop short with skill (like a healing ability). I'm thinking of implementing soemthing to limit a bit how crazy the boss player can be. Maybe an action bar that's used up by issuing commands, and interrupting an attack to make another surprise one won't be a free action. It's possible that the hero himself will be affected by something similar as well, though without restraining him so much as adding a little strategy, maybe to the use of special attacks.

INQUIRING MINDS MUST KNOW but seriously why do I have to ask so many questions ._.

Because you're interested? Thank you for that by the way. Grin

Finally: I might try throwing some music at you, but don't you dare rely on me for music.

Haha, thanks, though I don't believe I'll have problems with music-getting for this one.

You could add an option for offline play that hides your cursor while selecting an attack, for people that know what the attacks are and don't want to telegraph them as much.

Mmm, possibly. It does feel like this concept would work a lot better online, but I will make sure to work on the offline as well to see how to balance it. That can be an interesting idea to implement.
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2011, 07:09:07 PM »

Waht do you mean with "but will everything step from the boss entity"?

Whoops. stem*, but you answered things well. Thanks!

Haha, thanks, though I don't believe I'll have problems with music-getting for this one.

Yeah, after I wrote that I realized you'd mentioned having received a billion musics from interested parties :3
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« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2011, 08:46:50 PM »

Yes, actions can be interrupted. Most by the boss player, but I have ideas for some that the hero player can also stop short with skill (like a healing ability). I'm thinking of implementing soemthing to limit a bit how crazy the boss player can be. Maybe an action bar that's used up by issuing commands, and interrupting an attack to make another surprise one won't be a free action. It's possible that the hero himself will be affected by something similar as well, though without restraining him so much as adding a little strategy, maybe to the use of special attacks.
Maybe you could give the bosses the ability to spawn a handful of minions (just some little enemies that go down easy but stall the player to buy the boss some time). That way they can keep the pressure on the player while their prep their other attacks.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 09:02:20 PM by jwk5 » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2011, 10:54:22 PM »

Different boss attacks would have different 'energy' requirements. This also means that each would have at least one very powerful attack that would leave them unable to act for a short moment. If used improperly it could give the hero player a lot of free time to dish out damage on the defenceless boss.

I'm chilling out a bit today, but with my promise of working on this and my other stuff daily, I'll still have some progress to report later. I'm hoping the weekend is very productive.

EDIT: Mostly design work tonight. Coming up with bosses and attacks, though I have nothing to show at the moment. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have something good for you all. Grin
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 12:45:30 AM by Melly » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2011, 06:57:23 AM »

Minions:

Could cost a boss' health but be individually controllable with a few of their own mini-abilities to manage? :D

Or more generally:

Melly, will you make boss with separated entities who can move and be controlled separately?
If not, then it is an idea I offer up to you :x
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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2011, 02:36:46 PM »

yo dawg how about a boss where the boss is the level: like Hero man is on top of a train that's trying to kill him, or some military base facility where the computer mainframe boss controls hazards around the arena and shizz like-ah dat?
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« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2011, 12:06:52 AM »

Those are interesting ideas, though right now the setting is "ancient temple"tm.

Does anyone here use Adobe's Stratus service for P2P connections between Flash apps? I have a couple of questions for anyone who does.
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« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2011, 02:09:20 AM »

oh.
replace "train" with "ancient enchanted mechanical dragon"
and "computer mainframe boss" with "vengeful spirit"
Smiley
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