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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperArt (Moderator: JWK5)Spriter:Animation program that uses the same animation technique from Muramasa
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Author Topic: Spriter:Animation program that uses the same animation technique from Muramasa  (Read 5932 times)
DanFessler
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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2012, 04:51:28 PM »

I worked with Mike Parent back at Glu Mobile.  Pretty much every mobile games company at the time had their own proprietary version of this tool, and both Mike and I fell in love with them.  I even tried funding the development of a tool like this myself and posted about it here a couple years ago.  It's just one of those things that you don't realize how useful it is until you've used it.  I'm so so happy that one is finally being realized properly and the reception has been so great.

As for memory usage, That was the main reason these tools were so necessary pre-iOS.  The phones just couldn't handle much.  Essentially everything in those games was handled in these tools - from menu animations, to HUDs, environments, and of course the in-game sprites.
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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2012, 05:03:31 PM »

I want this.
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ASnogarD
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« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2012, 03:32:28 AM »

I just want to see if I understand this properly...

It isnt a sprite drawing program like GraphicsGale, but rather allows you to take sprite asset parts and manipulate them to create the animation.

It doesnt use a spritepage ( but can or will support exporting th eanimation to a sprite page  ).

Does it recalculate light sources ? I realise that sprites dont generally tend to adjust to varying lights much, but artists can and do adjust frames to compensate for changing surfaces exposure to light.
Example : A characters leg while standing is exposed to different amounts of light than if the characters leg was extended in a kick action.
I mean would it take a characters leg and simply rotate it to the kick position, or does it actually work out light ?

Would this tool be usefull to a new programmer / developer who has only used a simple sprite page animation ?
How hard would it be to get C++ to read and use the Spriter data ? Or would it be still usefull by simply creating the animation and then exporting the result to make a spritepage ?

Oh, and does anyone know a good free ( or really cheap ) sprite drawing package like GraphicsGale, or is Gale the best cheap-skate option still ?
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« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2012, 05:45:23 AM »

I'll be keeping an eye on this.
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DanFessler
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« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2012, 10:17:07 AM »

It isnt a sprite drawing program like GraphicsGale, but rather allows you to take sprite asset parts and manipulate them to create the animation.
Correct


It doesnt use a spritepage ( but can or will support exporting th eanimation to a sprite page  ).
If by "spritepage" you're referring to a sprite sheet which contains a grid of full-sprite animation frames, then you are correct.  Though supporting sprite sheets inside of Spriter wouldn't be a bad idea either.  I'll ask him about this.  He might already be planning it


Does it recalculate light sources ? I realise that sprites dont generally tend to adjust to varying lights much, but artists can and do adjust frames to compensate for changing surfaces exposure to light.
Example : A characters leg while standing is exposed to different amounts of light than if the characters leg was extended in a kick action.
I mean would it take a characters leg and simply rotate it to the kick position, or does it actually work out light?
The tool simply rotates the images and doesn't adjust lighting on the images you've drawn.  This is quite a difficult problem to solve with any 2d image without simply having the artist redraw a different version of it.  In that same sense, you could make another version of the leg in shadow for use in Spriter and switch to it at the appropriate time in the animation.  This is possible to do not only with lighting, but also to show various rotations of parts.  For example, I may want to make a fighter character that throws a punch.  If I just make a standard idle pose and rotate the arm parts, it'll look pretty weak.  But if I draw a couple more pieces, such as maybe a torso piece that's rotated to show his back, the animation will seem much more natural and dynamic.  Tweening is still possible when you redraw pieces. The only other way I can think of getting more dynamic lighting is to rig up Spriter textures with normal maps if you're feeling up for it.




Would this tool be usefull to a new programmer / developer who has only used a simple sprite page animation?

How hard would it be to get C++ to read and use the Spriter data ? Or would it be still usefull by simply creating the animation and then exporting the result to make a spritepage?
It certainly would be useful for some people to bake out animations as sprite sheets.  If that's what you want to do, then by all means.  But be aware you lose all of the benefits of having the spriter data - such as smooth keyframes, image swapping, memory savings, etc.  As for implementing it into C++, I'm fairly certain that they're planning on releasing a framework for it.  And if they dont, the format is easy enough that you'd be able to write your own implementation.


Oh, and does anyone know a good free ( or really cheap ) sprite drawing package like GraphicsGale, or is Gale the best cheap-skate option still ?
Graphics gale is absolutely superb for pixel art sprites.  If you want something more versatile you can check out Gimp.  Other than that, you'll have to put down some money.  I personally prefer photoshop for my work.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 09:30:08 AM by DanFessler » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2012, 01:43:26 AM »

Thanks for the answers , appreciate it Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2012, 10:29:37 AM »

It should be possible to use more traditional sprite-sheets in conjunction with this program. In the demonstration video, they even showed how you can easily swap out the graphics on individual parts of a character at run-time. There's no reason you couldn't use that to add sprite-sheet animation to individual parts as well. For instance, you could use that feature to add sprite-sheet facial expressions to your character.

The whole point is to create animated characters whose primary animations are determined by math, and are thus more dynamic. It's a means of combining the time-saving of illustration with the time-saving of 3D animation. It's not the ideal solution for every game, but a valid and useful one for many.
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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2012, 12:28:59 PM »

This is my approah to that kind of sprite tools... It's done at my spare time...





It is only done with a bone system, dividing the sprites in many small triangles and applying bone weigths to the vertices.... and of course you can change the sprite's position, scale, rotation, texture, alpha, tint color, .....

I think spriter video is not showing special features... and all is showing can be done with blender or 3ds max... or with a tool that can be developed in a week... but they are good promoting it... Wink
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DanFessler
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« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2012, 01:00:17 PM »

Holy shit Blau, that tool of yours is great.  I'd love to play with it Smiley

Edit:
While we're on the topic of other people's solutions to this problem, here are a few others I've stumbled across...

Expression Blend to XML/XNA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=eopTpo8iGMA

SWF to XML/Unity:
http://renderhjs.net/shoebox/

Flash Export to XML/Monocle Engine:
https://github.com/grapefrukt/grapefrukt-export

And my own tool I was developing:
http://danfessler.com/animedit
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 02:41:11 PM by DanFessler » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2012, 11:49:39 PM »

Holy shit Blau, that tool of yours is great.  I'd love to play with it Smiley

do ho hoho
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DanFessler
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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2012, 10:56:55 AM »

hmmm... In hindsight I possibly could have phrased that better
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rogerlevy
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« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2012, 11:29:07 AM »

stop motion - now not just for south park
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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2012, 08:17:59 AM »


And my own tool I was developing:
http://danfessler.com/animedit


Does it work?
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DanFessler
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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2012, 10:56:01 AM »

not fully.  I sunk quite a bit of money into it paying a coder.  I mostly got UI from it before I had to can it.
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« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2012, 03:27:14 PM »

I'm happy to see this done properly.

I remember working on the animation editor with Dan briefly. (for free as a hobby/pet project)

IIRC, Dan didn't like the ugly .NET winforms, but I didn't want to code UI in C++/Qt. So it didn't exactly work out.

Screenshots from a prototype I threw together in few hrs (following Dan's UI design)



The animation editor was supposed to be part of mapeditor/gameeditor I was working on at the time:



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DanFessler
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« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2012, 03:47:32 PM »

Yup, to be clear, the guy i was referring to before was not joba.  Joba is awesome.  But yes, for a product like this a large chunk of the work was UI.  In hindsight we probably should have just gotten something working first before I got picky with qt or whatnot
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« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2012, 04:58:47 PM »

And my own tool I was developing:
http://danfessler.com/animedit
This looks like it's designed to make pixelart animation easier and more efficient. If you wanted to kickstart an opensource-multiplatform-Qt-based-something like that I'd certainly throw money at it. If it included half-decent pixel editing then I'd throw even more money at it.

I certainly don't want to see more flash-style super-smooth transformation with super-coarse frame-change animation in games.

P.S. Am I the only one bugged by a tool that doesn't create sprites (rather manipulates them) being called "Spriter"? To me a spriter is someone/something who/which creates sprites.
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DanFessler
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« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2012, 06:45:16 PM »

I worked with mike at Glu Mobile.  We had both worked at Gameloft prior to that.  At both companies we had tools similar to this, and much of the idea for spriter was talked about between us two based on the tools we were using for work.  We had planned to make it together, but then he moved to France and I got involved in other things.

I never liked the name "spriter" myself.  The name for the one at glu was quite clever.  they called it "Sprite Glu"  Perfectly descriptive and catchy.

The tool I mocked up is essentially the same thing as Spriter, but with pixel art images instead of high-res.  There is no reason why Spriter can't be used for pixel games as well, they've just focused on high-res "next-gen" stuff.
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