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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsRogueTroid - procedurally generated metroidvania (new build: 7/21/2012)
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Author Topic: RogueTroid - procedurally generated metroidvania (new build: 7/21/2012)  (Read 8927 times)
Miko Galvez
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« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2012, 04:57:10 PM »

Co-op split-screen would be fun! Maybe future installments may have it as a like, bonus feature

The 2 players can be in the same area. or maybe be in completely areas looking for each other in Deathmatch. just a thought
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Sarge
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« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2012, 05:56:36 PM »

Oh and while I'm here I might as well throw out a bit of an update, let you know what we're doing.

Part of the reason we released a build this early is that we wanted to be pretty transparent about our development process.  Get people involved in what we're doing, let them ask questions (though some things are off limits), see our process, or make suggestions.  It is pretty ridiculous for a roguelike to put up a playable demo in 6 weeks of development time, most of our time was spent making and testing generation systems so what you really have is representative of 2 weeks working on actual game systems (e.g. bad guys, the boss, the power ups, etc).

Well that and attempting to attract an artist and someone to do music/sound.

Which brings me to my first major update!

ART!
Medevenx has volunteered to do art for us!  The mockup he presented is the first bit he has done.  What exists in that screen shot is our first 16x16 tileset, the hero (we went with the orange one hoping to have good contrast against all of our future tilesets), and a couple of potential badguys.

We're really happy with what Medevenx has given us so far and look forward to working with the guy.   Coffee

Badguys and Bosses
We have also been working very hard on making our badguys more interesting.  We have implemented our first round of "badguys that do-stuff" and are starting work on the game's second boss.

Eventually there will be enough bosses that you can fight 4 different bosses throughout the course of a playthrough.  Since the individual bosses gain new abilities the later in the game you fight them we wont run into Binding of Isaac's problem of each level being only one or two bosses.  You could fight any boss at any "level" of the game and it will hopefully be different and provide a unique experience.  (Not that there is anything wrong with BoI, it is one of our major influences here.  <3 Edmund).

Fighting the same "Bomber" boss 4 times doesn't really adequately express what our end goals for the game's experience is.  The Bomber is defeated roughly the same each time and it is a bit repetitive 4 times in a row, but ideally you'd only see that bomber once per run through at most.  So the Bomber having the same memorable win strategy is a good thing in my opinion.

Player Controls
We hear what you're saying about the player needing more "weight," and we sort of agree.  We really like the freedom of movement allowed by our current controls and love the response (especially with an Xbox controller), but we are fiddling with some tweaks like giving the Hero some acceleration.  We wont be implementing this until we're happy with it, which could be a while or honestly may never come at all if we can't get it how we want it.  Essentially we'd rather sacrifice that feeling of 'weight' for really tight controls, and will do so if it comes down to it.

Camera
We have always had designs for a fancier camera, for now we're just happy the damned thing works at all!  We're working on a tweening system (I hate that word, tweening.  Uck).  Again, it wont be in the game until we're happy with it, although this isn't something we need to be 100% happy with to implement... maybe 80%.

Anyway we're working on it.

Health Systems
For now we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

The game is still intended to be a RogueLike, albeit a forgiving one.  You die, you're out, new game.  We're also going for a short, replayable experience (currently we're at about 15 minutes for our "speed runs," we're looking at an hour TOPS with 15-20 minutes for someone who knows what they're doing and has a handle on what the generation system can throw at them).  We're aiming at about a 40-60% "win percentage," which is insanely forgiving for a RogueLike as is.

Additionally we REALLY disliked having health drops from enemies.  It became a sort of obligation to "grind" badguys for health before a boss.  Not only did it seem contrary to the spirit of a RogueLike, it just wasn't fun.

So right now the badguys are just a "gauntlet" you have to survive between bosses, trying your best to have enough health left over to tackle the next boss so he can top you off if you're victorious.  I'm not entirely convinced this is the best direction for us to go, but for right now it is the best direction we have available to us.

We're considering Half-Life styled health dispensers placed randomly through the game.  Something that we can make a limited resource (in the grand RogueLike tradition).  We'll see how development goes.



So that's about it.  We hope to have a major update by the end of the week.  It should include another boss, bad guys who do stuff, better description on what the randomly placed power ups do (the +damage, +armor, etc), aaaaaand we might have to take that landing sound effect out entirely since I can't seem to find a decent replacement.

This is assuming we don't break the damned thing this week.  OK, I lied.  We did break it.  Several times.  So this is assuming we can fix it again and keep it fixed.

Game Development is a cruel mistress.

Cheers.
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Joshua
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« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2012, 06:55:27 PM »

Ba-dang! Grin Great work so far guys, I really like that you are taking an open development approach. I'm keeping my eye on this project.
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« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2012, 01:19:51 AM »

The new mock-up looks great! Wish I could play this on my silly, little Mac..  Angry
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st33d
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« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2012, 02:44:30 AM »

Dude - the camera doesn't need to "tween" at all.

Just interpolate the current position:

https://github.com/st33d/red-rogue/blob/master/src/com/robotacid/gfx/CanvasCamera.as

Look at the main() in my class - I'm just smoothing out the movement with an interpolation equation that moves the camera gently at small distances and fast at great distances.

On top of that I feed "setTarget" an extra offset based on the direction the player is looking. The offset is slowly added to based on which way the player is facing and if they are running.
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Zack Bell
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« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2012, 03:35:33 AM »

For starters, I was just going to have the camera speed be relative to the distance between the current camera position and the player. However, I like the idea you mentioned using "setTarget" to add an extra offset (in our case you could see farther ahead in order to shoot). I may play around with that as well! Thanks, st33d.
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Sarge
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« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2012, 10:37:45 PM »

Another update.

Badguys:
We are done with our second boss.  The new boss will fall in line with the Bomber and you will now fight each of them twice in a play through.  Our system has proven a lot more robust than I thought, we were really happy how easy it was to add another Boss to the game (well aside from getting all his actions right and playtesting him over and over).

Currently putting out a bunch of enemies.  The current batch is a lot more interesting and now all enemies in the game "do stuff."  We still have an occasional "boring" enemy that just sort of mills about, and we might keep a few of these around because they make for good cannon fodder.

Things are looking good for an update on the weekend.  One that'll give you more interesting things to shoot at between bosses.  Maybe even give you some good old fashioned RogueLike heartache whittling you down to your death along the way.

Bear in mind it is supposed to be a RogueLike and challenging, but if you guys really feel like you're getting knocked around too much we will see about adding in some way to refill health while still trying to make it a valuable resource.

UI Improvements:
Powerups now give you a general idea of what they're doing.  For instance picking up a red block will pop up the words "Damage++."  Additionally opening the map screen will show you your "statistics" on the left of the world map.  Everything is still very crude for now, as we just made the quickest change to display the information you guys asked for.  Once we get some more time to dedicate to UI resources we'll purdy it up nice.

We're also going to add the words "World Map" to the map screen and the words "Press [button] to teleport to LZ" to the bottom of the screen.  This feature was already in the game, but it really needs to be stated on the map screen.


Currently "in the works" for future updates:
-"Hazard" blocks like lava and acid.
     (although we're thinking more like Metroid than Spelunky.  We dislike one-shot mechanics as we're going for more of an actiony feel).

-Another few bosses are being planned and are in the preliminary design and pseudocode stages.  I'd love to put up some concept art but my scanner bit the dust and I'm far too poor to replace it right now. So maybe picture a really awesome dragon chasing the hero as he leaps platform to platform over boiling lava.  Now picture all that was hastily scribbled by a 10 year old.  There, I saved myself 60 bucks on a scanner.

-Potential changes to our world generation procedures are looking good.  They should cut down on back tracking and maybe make the experience more enjoyable for those who aren't as into exploration as the typical Metroid player (read: don't mind backtracking everywhere).  If we DO go this direction it wont be for a looooong time.  I'm optimistic that everything will work out, but I want to make sure that everything works and it is indeed an improvement over the current system before making it available to the public.
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Conker534
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« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2012, 01:16:31 AM »

I feel like this game could have a really really fun co-op.

Anyways I tried it. Didn't take long for me to close it. That is because the controls bugged me and I got killed by the boss xD. The games map generation is very well done and I feel like this could be something really really cool with more polish. I'll be following it :D
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Sarge
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« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2012, 02:15:48 AM »

I feel like this game could have a really really fun co-op.

Anyways I tried it. Didn't take long for me to close it. That is because the controls bugged me and I got killed by the boss xD. The games map generation is very well done and I feel like this could be something really really cool with more polish. I'll be following it :D

If you could be just a bit more specific about the controls that would be super.

Like how the character handles or the actual key setup?  I've got a feeling most people are playing on a keyboard and the ZXCV for actions is pretty terrible.  We're still experimenting with the keyboard controls and are open to suggestions.

We're about ready to throw this next build up (hoping to get everything squared away by Friday), we should probably work on a control configuration menu for the build after that.  I'll throw it on the list.
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Conker534
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« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2012, 02:29:50 AM »

It might just be something personal here. I usually change those settings or grab my gamepad when these controls happen to be how a game is made.
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Zack Bell
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« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2012, 11:44:52 AM »

New build coming tonight. There are new enemies and stuff.  Well, hello there!

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BouncingYeti
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« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2012, 06:51:41 PM »

You can find our most recent build here: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/29279751/RogueTroid_0.3.8.1.exe , as well as in the original post!

Looking forward to hearing your feedback and suggestions.
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SolarLune
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« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2012, 10:00:17 PM »

That was surprisingly good (at least, to me). The rooms were nice, but I think it could use smaller, more compact rooms (more enemies and hazards per room).

I ran into a bug where I got stuck in the ground when I entered the room; I was able to jump out, though.

The flamethrower enemies' reach is really far - not frustratingly so, but it is quite surprising. Maybe you could give some kind of warning, like a little flame at the end of their guns when they're leading up to the attack?

I think a manual weapon to start out would feel a little more comfortable (at least to me), or you could take out the 'burst-fire' feel of the machine gun. Giving a normal machine gun for the start might feel a little too easy, though.

Anyway, nice work! It's shaping up!
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Zack Bell
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« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2012, 10:16:35 PM »

Hey, thanks!

We're actually considering slightly smaller rooms (about 50% in area), but I think we're going to wait until we add hazard blocks to see how the balance changes. For our next build we plan to have lava, acid pits, and perhaps spikes and such.

And yeah, I guess I knew about the floor bug (when entering a room) but forgot to fix it because it isn't game breaking. I'll put that on the to-do list!

Flame thrower guys. Hmm... We will definitely have more "i'm about to spray you with bullets/fire" cues when we move away from our placeholder art.

Do you not like that you can hold the button to shoot after 'x' reload time? Like you'd prefer to mash a button? Or you just don't like starting and adjusting to the three shot burst?

EDIT: Derp, you said manual weapon.

Thanks for the feedback!  Beer!
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 11:51:04 PM by Zack Bell » Logged

Recs
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« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2012, 12:36:14 AM »

I'm following this.

Very nice concept and it seems to be shaping up well.  Toast Left
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Miko Galvez
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« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2012, 05:18:44 AM »

By manual weapon I think he means having the weapon not shoot 3 times just because you shot once
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JackMenhorn
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« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2012, 05:21:19 AM »

I like where this is going.
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Sarge
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« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2012, 02:06:01 PM »

Thanks for all of the feedback guys.  We're going to meet up again soon to discuss our direction for the next update.

We've considered a more "button mashey" style of shooting, but right now we're facing technical constraints based on the number of power ups in the system.  Essentially up until just a couple days ago we had a bug which made it so we NEEEDED the rate of fire power ups in the system.

We've also faced issues based on how small everything is and how the movement controls work.  We're moving to 16x16 tiles eventually, but in the meantime the 3 round burst makes it a lot easier to hit things.  Doing jump shots with the button mash style was a nightmare.

So we'll see where everything goes.  I like the more frantic button mashing style of play and that is an option for the future depending on how things work out.
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baconman
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« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2012, 08:44:00 PM »

This is REALLY spot-on for a good PG Metroidlike, and I love how the areas have their nice, nonlinear nooks and so forth!

Maybe I just haven't gotten the flow of the boss yet, or I'm not grinding enough upgrades prior to facing it,Nope, I got it... but it seems to have really really high HP. That's really the ONLY thing I could find to complain about, since I'm sure you'll be implementing a way to recover HP eventually. An optional 2x zoom and custom controls (inevitable, right?) wouldn't be too bad, but I'm quite impressed with the spriting and tiling!!

It's really hard doing low-res THAT EFFING GOOD. If you do decide to upscale your graphics, maybe make a secret code to re-enable the current ones. Wink
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 09:04:01 PM by baconman » Logged

Zack Bell
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« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2012, 11:06:03 PM »

Hey, thanks! That means a lot! Glad to see that someone appreciates my lame 8x8 tiles  Tongue

We're pretty sure that we will have some form of health regeneration at some point, but I'm not sure if that'll be in the next update.

At the moment we're focussing on more enemies and more bosses.

Thanks again for the encouraging words  Beer!
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